Interfacing Leather?

[MtlBiker]

I'm wondering if you guys can suggest a better technique for me than what I've been doing to interface leather for making bags/purses.  What I've been doing when using different fabrics is to first apply a fusible woven interfacing and then for the outer pieces that need more stiffness or form, ironing on Decovil Light.  That's been working just fine.  And for materials which I don't want to use heat with, I've been baste stitching a 1/4" foam in the stitch allowance.  And when I put the pieces together, it's always been just fine without being too thick.

But now with 4oz chrome tan leather for the outer bag when I sew on (baste) the foam interfacing I end up with too much bulk in parts of the bag which I can just manage to sew on my machine (just under 1/2" thick).  (The thickest part is where the gusset meets the front of the bag and the lining attaches and also where the bag flap attaches to the back of the bag.)  It works, but I'd really like to end up with less bulk along the edges.

What do you suggest for giving leather a better form / stiffening it?  If I cut my foam smaller so that my seam allowance would only be the thickness of the leather layers, that would be a big improvement, but I can't stitch the foam in place or the stitching would show.  Does it make any sense to glue the foam in place?  I probably wouldn't have to glue the whole piece of foam... just enough to hold it in place for the finished bag.

Suggestions?

[Northmount]

Try leather tape for basting, also for stitching.  https://www.wawak.com/Bag-Construction/Basting-Tape/super-strong-double-sided-vinylleather-basting-tape-clear/?sku=TPE15

Note different widths available.  1/8" to 1".  They ship to Canada!  Have ordered items from them time to time and have not had any problems with shipping.  Pre-cleared customs.

[MtlBiker]

57 minutes ago, Northmount said:

Try leather tape for basting, also for stitching.  https://www.wawak.com/Bag-Construction/Basting-Tape/super-strong-double-sided-vinylleather-basting-tape-clear/?sku=TPE15

Note different widths available.  1/8" to 1".  They ship to Canada!  Have ordered items from them time to time and have not had any problems with shipping.  Pre-cleared customs.

Thanks.  I deal with Wawak.CA (there's a Canadian specific site) regularly.  They're pretty good.  And I have a bunch of that tape.

But it's not going to work for me in this case...  I need (at least I think I do) a way of attaching the foam INSIDE of the stitch line so that the seam allowance and perhaps 1/4" inside of that stitch line remains thin, without the foam.  And I doubt very much that even if I plaster the inner area of the pattern with that tape, it would stand up over time and keep the foam from shifting.  I'd need a way to keep the foam in position over time.

The foam I'm using I get from JT's Outdoor Fabrics... https://www.jtsoutdoorfabrics.com/.25_Inch_Sewing_Foam

Maybe I should be using something else?

 

[toxo]

3 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

I'm wondering if you guys can suggest a better technique for me than what I've been doing to interface leather for making bags/purses.  What I've been doing when using different fabrics is to first apply a fusible woven interfacing and then for the outer pieces that need more stiffness or form, ironing on Decovil Light.  That's been working just fine.  And for materials which I don't want to use heat with, I've been baste stitching a 1/4" foam in the stitch allowance.  And when I put the pieces together, it's always been just fine without being too thick.

But now with 4oz chrome tan leather for the outer bag when I sew on (baste) the foam interfacing I end up with too much bulk in parts of the bag which I can just manage to sew on my machine (just under 1/2" thick).  (The thickest part is where the gusset meets the front of the bag and the lining attaches and also where the bag flap attaches to the back of the bag.)  It works, but I'd really like to end up with less bulk along the edges.

What do you suggest for giving leather a better form / stiffening it?  If I cut my foam smaller so that my seam allowance would only be the thickness of the leather layers, that would be a big improvement, but I can't stitch the foam in place or the stitching would show.  Does it make any sense to glue the foam in place?  I probably wouldn't have to glue the whole piece of foam... just enough to hold it in place for the finished bag.

Suggestions?

What is it that you're making that needs such a thickness of material? And is the lining designed to come out or not?

I assume you want the stiffness so it stands up? Are you trying to not sew through the turnover at the top?

Edited January 10, 2022 by toxo

[MtlBiker]

35 minutes ago, toxo said:

What is it that you're making that needs such a thickness of material? And is the lining designed to come out or not?

I assume you want the stiffness so it stands up? Are you trying to not sew through the turnover at the top?

It's a purse I'm making.  I'd made several before using interfaced cotton, fake leather, Harris Tweed, etc. and they proved to be very popular.  I'm making the same thing now with the main parts being leather.  I need the bag to maintain its form and not sag when empty.  Do you think 4oz chrome tan was too thick?  Thinner leather would still need (probably foam) interfacing to keep it stiff enough.  The lining is not removable once the bag is finished.

I just finished my first two bags with leather and all that's left is the shoulder straps which I'm making now.  I'm pretty pleased with how they turned out, but I'd like to do better next time.

The purpose of the leather was simply to make the bag more up scale, hopefully appealing to a more (dare I say) snobbish crowd.  Also justifying a higher selling price. 

 

[JayEhl]

First off,  really super amazing crafstmanship.  What I would give to work as an apprentice to learn to do bags and stuff like that!!   

I don't know that much about making bags but when I bought a used sewing machine from a lady she gave me several rolls of Bontex bag stiffener.  I used a piece for a minimalist card holder I was messing with and it work as expected.     I'd be glad to ship you some if you pay for shipping.  

[toxo]

2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

It's a purse I'm making.  I'd made several before using interfaced cotton, fake leather, Harris Tweed, etc. and they proved to be very popular.  I'm making the same thing now with the main parts being leather.  I need the bag to maintain its form and not sag when empty.  Do you think 4oz chrome tan was too thick?  Thinner leather would still need (probably foam) interfacing to keep it stiff enough.  The lining is not removable once the bag is finished.

I just finished my first two bags with leather and all that's left is the shoulder straps which I'm making now.  I'm pretty pleased with how they turned out, but I'd like to do better next time.

The purpose of the leather was simply to make the bag more up scale, hopefully appealing to a more (dare I say) snobbish crowd.  Also justifying a higher selling price. 

 

Nice work and I like the design although the open holes at the sides always make me determined to do something about that next time.

Have you considered veg tan for the gusset? I see your gusset goes all the way around. A veg tan gusset would hold it up and enable a thinner front and back panel which would enable you to trap the lining between the turnover without it being bulky.

Can't see the clasp well but does it just hold the flap down? If it does you might consider one that locks it in place which would help in it standing up.

[MtlBiker]

21 hours ago, JayEhl said:

First off,  really super amazing crafstmanship.  What I would give to work as an apprentice to learn to do bags and stuff like that!!   

I don't know that much about making bags but when I bought a used sewing machine from a lady she gave me several rolls of Bontex bag stiffener.  I used a piece for a minimalist card holder I was messing with and it work as expected.     I'd be glad to ship you some if you pay for shipping.  

Wow!  Really kind words, thank you.  Before COVID I couldn't even sew a button on a shirt and now I've got a bunch of sewing machines.  I really got hooked during the times non-essential businesses here were forced to close.

Thanks for your kind offer, but I just searched out that product and found scant info on it, but it doesn't seem to be available here in Canada.  And even on Etsy, it says the product doesn't ship to here.  So it may (or not) be a great product but the difficulty in getting it kinda rules it out for me. 

My bags turned out very well (if I do say so myself) and next time I'm going to try to trim my foam to smaller than the seam allowance and glue it in place.  That way I'd only have to deal with the leather thickness and I am pretty sure that with care I'd get a better result.  But I was able to stitch these without too much difficulty.  My next attempt will hopefully be better.

Cheers!

 

[JayEhl]

Hey no problem.   Let me know if you change your mind.     

[MtlBiker]

17 hours ago, toxo said:

Nice work and I like the design although the open holes at the sides always make me determined to do something about that next time.

Have you considered veg tan for the gusset? I see your gusset goes all the way around. A veg tan gusset would hold it up and enable a thinner front and back panel which would enable you to trap the lining between the turnover without it being bulky.

Can't see the clasp well but does it just hold the flap down? If it does you might consider one that locks it in place which would help in it standing up.

The bags in the photos I posted were empty and with anything in the bags the "open holes" at the sides are very much reduced.

Thank you, but I'm not quite following your suggestion about using veg tan.  I'd still need to reinforce it somehow I think, which brings me back to the bulk issue.  Also I wanted the front and sides to match in color and finish.  This leather was about 4 oz... were you suggesting a thicker veg tan?  Are you suggesting veg tan just because for any given weight it's stiffer than chrome tan?  Hmmm.... if I understand right, you're suggesting that the veg tan wouldn't need any reinforcement?  So I could actually make the front and back and gusset from the same veg tan, without applying any foam or other to stiffen it.  But then I'd have to improve my meager skills with dyeing and finishing the veg tan.

The clasp holds the flap down and does lock in the closed position.

[toxo]

2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

The bags in the photos I posted were empty and with anything in the bags the "open holes" at the sides are very much reduced.

Thank you, but I'm not quite following your suggestion about using veg tan.  I'd still need to reinforce it somehow I think, which brings me back to the bulk issue.  Also I wanted the front and sides to match in color and finish.  This leather was about 4 oz... were you suggesting a thicker veg tan?  Are you suggesting veg tan just because for any given weight it's stiffer than chrome tan?  Hmmm.... if I understand right, you're suggesting that the veg tan wouldn't need any reinforcement?  So I could actually make the front and back and gusset from the same veg tan, without applying any foam or other to stiffen it.  But then I'd have to improve my meager skills with dyeing and finishing the veg tan.

The clasp holds the flap down and does lock in the closed position.

Veg tan has lots of advantages over chrome tan. The thickness will depend on the size of the bag but even lightweight VT is a joy to work with compared to CT for many (not all) bag designs. The problem you had in your first post goes away with VT. firstly it doesn't need to be so thick and VT is much easier to skive than CT even by hand after some practice so you can have a turned top edge that's the same thickness as the rest of the panel and so allows a lining to be trapped and sewed between without being too bulky. The stitching when using a gussetwill stand up really well with even thin VT. This first pic was around 2mm, the second pic started life as a soft gym bag at around 1.2mm CT but I realised that the size of the bag needed more so I lined it with 1.6mm VT and now it's more like a stylish suitcase. You have to try these things

[RockyAussie]

On 1/11/2022 at 1:11 AM, MtlBiker said:

'm wondering if you guys can suggest a better technique for me than what I've been doing to interface leather for making bags/purses.  What I've been doing when using different fabrics is to first apply a fusible woven interfacing and then for the outer pieces that need more stiffness or form, ironing on Decovil Light.  That's been working just fine.  And for materials which I don't want to use heat with, I've been baste stitching a 1/4" foam in the stitch allowance.  And when I put the pieces together, it's always been just fine without being too thick.

But now with 4oz chrome tan leather for the outer bag when I sew on (baste) the foam interfacing I end up with too much bulk in parts of the bag which I can just manage to sew on my machine (just under 1/2" thick).  (The thickest part is where the gusset meets the front of the bag and the lining attaches and also where the bag flap attaches to the back of the bag.)  It works, but I'd really like to end up with less bulk along the edges.

What do you suggest for giving leather a better form / stiffening it?  If I cut my foam smaller so that my seam allowance would only be the thickness of the leather layers, that would be a big improvement, but I can't stitch the foam in place or the stitching would show.  Does it make any sense to glue the foam in place?  I probably wouldn't have to glue the whole piece of foam... just enough to hold it in place for the finished bag.

Suggestions?

You are doing really well considering what you are working with. Do you have a bell skiver yet? The biggest suggestion I think I can offer is your foam is too thick. See if you can track a local supplier that can supply Sekisui Foam. I use a fair bit of their Softlon 3002. This is 3mm thick and can be skived or sanded if you want. There are other thicknesses as well. It is a Polyolefin foam. It gives a good soft feel whilst giving a nice amount of stiffening and good memory as well. Here are a few shots of some of the uses we put it to here -

Here cutting the 3mm foam

Here ready to spray contact glue (on other side)

Foam applied and needs to be trimmed up (it has been skived on the edges)

Bag sewn together

Bag turned right side out and ready for the top edge fold down

some bags with the top edge folded

Here showing the heavy straw board base which has the bottom feet attached to it and note the ends have a lighter strawboard which has the edges shaped to give the effect we want. This does not get fully glued to the edges on the foam.

(different bag to the above pics but same design.

Here showing a couple of finished bags in a patchwork crocodile design.

 

Keep up the good work and have fun as well.

 

[MtlBiker]

17 hours ago, toxo said:

Veg tan has lots of advantages over chrome tan. The thickness will depend on the size of the bag but even lightweight VT is a joy to work with compared to CT for many (not all) bag designs. The problem you had in your first post goes away with VT. firstly it doesn't need to be so thick and VT is much easier to skive than CT even by hand after some practice so you can have a turned top edge that's the same thickness as the rest of the panel and so allows a lining to be trapped and sewed between without being too bulky. The stitching when using a gussetwill stand up really well with even thin VT. This first pic was around 2mm, the second pic started life as a soft gym bag at around 1.2mm CT but I realised that the size of the bag needed more so I lined it with 1.6mm VT and now it's more like a stylish suitcase. You have to try these things

Very nice bags!

When you say "thin" veg tan for the gusset, (looking at my bag) what thickness are you suggesting?  And would you suggest the same veg tan weight for the front and back panels?

I guess my hesitation about using veg tan is the extra work (time) it takes to properly finish the leather.  I'm talking dyeing and some kind of surface finish.  It would put these bags into a much higher price range.  As it is, I'm probably not even making minimum wage on these.  But yes, I'm a beginner and it's just a hobby for me, not my day job.

Thank you!

 

[sbrownn]

18 hours ago, toxo said:

Veg tan has lots of advantages over chrome tan. The thickness will depend on the size of the bag but even lightweight VT is a joy to work with compared to CT for many (not all) bag designs. The problem you had in your first post goes away with VT. firstly it doesn't need to be so thick and VT is much easier to skive than CT even by hand after some practice so you can have a turned top edge that's the same thickness as the rest of the panel and so allows a lining to be trapped and sewed between without being too bulky. The stitching when using a gussetwill stand up really well with even thin VT. This first pic was around 2mm, the second pic started life as a soft gym bag at around 1.2mm CT but I realised that the size of the bag needed more so I lined it with 1.6mm VT and now it's more like a stylish suitcase. You have to try these things

Nice looking bags.

[MtlBiker]

@RockyAussie - Those are beautiful and thank you for sharing the process in photos.

Not only do I not have a bell skiver yet, I don't have any skiver.  So much to learn and so little time (and money).

I wasn't able to find a Canadian (or US) source for Sekisui Foam, and even searching for softlon 3002 didn't turn anything up for North America.  Ordering from elsewhere doesn't make sense for the small amount that I might use.  After all, I'm just a hobbyist with leatherwork.  But it does look like quite the product!  I'll do some more searching... maybe there's something equivalent out there.

Gosh your bags are beautiful!  (But what is strawboard?)

 

 

 

[toxo]

2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Very nice bags!

When you say "thin" veg tan for the gusset, (looking at my bag) what thickness are you suggesting?  And would you suggest the same veg tan weight for the front and back panels?

I guess my hesitation about using veg tan is the extra work (time) it takes to properly finish the leather.  I'm talking dyeing and some kind of surface finish.  It would put these bags into a much higher price range.  As it is, I'm probably not even making minimum wage on these.  But yes, I'm a beginner and it's just a hobby for me, not my day job.

Thank you!

 

I'm just a hobbyist also but I'm gonna make an effort this year to get back some of the dosh I've laid out.

You're doing really well so far and you're right to ask the questions and learn from other peoples experience but only practice and trial and error will get you where you need to be. So.

To keep the cost and labour down, you could just try veg tan for the gussets. That will hold up the sides and the flap should stop the sides from coming in. The top of the front panel shouldn't need too much stiffening (maybe none) and so shouldn't be too bulky. I'd mention skiving the top but it's not that easy on soft leather and it's time consuming.

I would try 1.8mm/2mm VT, when stitched it's quite strong but you'll have to try it for yourself. You can ask your leather shop for some samples of different thicknesses but spend a little money on decent sized samples that you can sew else they'll send credit card sizes and if you're gonna dye it you can use the economy grades.

[MtlBiker]

15 minutes ago, toxo said:

I'm just a hobbyist also but I'm gonna make an effort this year to get back some of the dosh I've laid out.

You're doing really well so far and you're right to ask the questions and learn from other peoples experience but only practice and trial and error will get you where you need to be. So.

To keep the cost and labour down, you could just try veg tan for the gussets. That will hold up the sides and the flap should stop the sides from coming in. The top of the front panel shouldn't need too much stiffening (maybe none) and so shouldn't be too bulky. I'd mention skiving the top but it's not that easy on soft leather and it's time consuming.

I would try 1.8mm/2mm VT, when stitched it's quite strong but you'll have to try it for yourself. You can ask your leather shop for some samples of different thicknesses but spend a little money on decent sized samples that you can sew else they'll send credit card sizes and if you're gonna dye it you can use the economy grades.

Toxo, do I understand that you're recommending the VT only for the gussets?  The front and back of the purse should match (color and finish) the gussets, for this particular design.  I doubt if I could mix VT for the gusset with chrome for the front and back and make it match so all of that would end up being VT.  Likewise the shoulder strap and decorative straps... it should all match.  I didn't post a photo of either of these finished bags, so I'll do that now.  For the shoulder strap, I've got a 1.5" strip of black CT leather and a 1.5" strip of red.  I folded each edge in to the middle and then aligned the red and black straps and stitched.  (Finished shoulder strap is 3/4" wide.)  I really like the look of the two-color straps and everyone I've shown the bags to so far has really liked them.  I really can't see myself doing this with VT leather (and having to dye to match the rest, etc.).

It looks like I'm going to have to investigate skivers.  SIGH  Plus I will experiment with using contact cement to glue my foam to the leather (sizing the foam so that it clears the seam allowance and stitch lines.

 

(Damn, I forgot to remove the cat hair (helper) before taking the photo!)

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by MtlBiker

[toxo]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

Toxo, do I understand that you're recommending the VT only for the gussets?  The front and back of the purse should match (color and finish) the gussets, for this particular design.  I doubt if I could mix VT for the gusset with chrome for the front and back and make it match so all of that would end up being VT.  Likewise the shoulder strap and decorative straps... it should all match.  I didn't post a photo of either of these finished bags, so I'll do that now.  For the shoulder strap, I've got a 1.5" strip of black CT leather and a 1.5" strip of red.  I folded each edge in to the middle and then aligned the red and black straps and stitched.  (Finished shoulder strap is 3/4" wide.)  I really like the look of the two-color straps and everyone I've shown the bags to so far has really liked them.  I really can't see myself doing this with VT leather (and having to dye to match the rest, etc.).

It looks like I'm going to have to investigate skivers.  SIGH  Plus I will experiment with using contact cement to glue my foam to the leather (sizing the foam so that it clears the seam allowance and stitch lines.

 

(Damn, I forgot to remove the cat hair (helper) before taking the photo!)

 

Just throwing ideas at you. Having stiff sides may negate the need for foam on the front. Maybe VT or some other stiffener glued to the CT gusset on the inside.

As for skiving, you need a really sharp blade. Maybe glue on the CT top to harden it before skiving. Maybe glue the foam to the top of the CT before skiving both.

Find out what works for you. No one will be as critical as you.

[MtlBiker]

5 minutes ago, toxo said:

No one will be as critical as you.

Gee, you're real lucky!  MY clients (few and far between so far) are way more critical than I am.    They all want perfection but for bargain basement prices.

[toxo]

10 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

Gee, you're real lucky!  MY clients (few and far between so far) are way more critical than I am.    They all want perfection but for bargain basement prices.

Doesn't mean you have to give it to em. Those bags are better than bargain basement.

[sbrownn]

21 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

Gee, you're real lucky!  MY clients (few and far between so far) are way more critical than I am.    They all want perfection but for bargain basement prices.

My clients (few and far between) are way less critical than I am.  They all want less quality to match their price point but I'm not interested in degrading my quality, I'm trying to improve it!  

If I make something that I think I could have done better I just give it away.

[RockyAussie]

18 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Gosh your bags are beautiful!  (But what is strawboard?)

Thanks for the compliment. Strawboard is just a pliable cardboard I get from a printing supply place over here. It is very similar to your typical cornflakes/cereal cardboard but i can get it  various thicknesses. Bontex and Texon board are better except that they are hard to get under 3mm (1/8") over here. Most of the bags made 40+ years back used strawboard for stiffening. Used correctly it holds up fine. I believe you will get yourself a bell skiver one day.. I think you have good talent and are one of the sort of people I like to help if I can.

[MtlBiker]

8 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Thanks for the compliment. Strawboard is just a pliable cardboard I get from a printing supply place over here. It is very similar to your typical cornflakes/cereal cardboard but i can get it  various thicknesses. Bontex and Texon board are better except that they are hard to get under 3mm (1/8") over here. Most of the bags made 40+ years back used strawboard for stiffening. Used correctly it holds up fine. I believe you will get yourself a bell skiver one day.. I think you have good talent and are one of the sort of people I like to help if I can.

You're a gentleman!  Thanks for the kind words.

I'm in the picture framing (and art gallery) business and we have all kinds of boards, but I'd never heard the term strawboard before.

For the moment I think I will try my next bag using the leather backed with a glued on foam, with the foam being smaller than the stitch line plus maybe 1/4" or so.  I did a test with Lepage's Heavy Duty Contact Cement and my foam and it holds really well.  I hope the smell of the cement disappears soon because now maybe 6 hours later, the smell overpowers the wonderful leather smell.  And Lepage's smells much much less than Barge's.

I'm looking into bell skivers and you are probably right that there's one in my near future.  Is it even worth looking at the small mechanical ones like Tandy Leather sells (or from Amazon)?  They're about $250 Canadian, compared with a Techsew (new) at $1,800.  I am just a beginner after all, and this is more of a hobbyist thing than a business.  If I get a lot more serious and do a lot more leather, well, I'd spend the $1,800 but it might be a bit premature for me.  I'd started another thread asking advice about this but so far haven't had any responses.

Cheers!
 

 

 

[RockyAussie]

On 1/14/2022 at 4:30 AM, MtlBiker said:

Is it even worth looking at the small mechanical ones like Tandy Leather sells (or from Amazon)?  They're about $250 Canadian, compared with a Techsew (new) at $1,800.  I am just a beginner after all, and this is more of a hobbyist thing than a business.  If I get a lot more serious and do a lot more leather, well, I'd spend the $1,800 but it might be a bit premature for me.  I'd started another thread asking advice about this but so far haven't had any responses.

For the type of work like this I believe the small mechanical ones are a waste of money. I would keep my eyes open for a good second hand Fortuna or F.A.V. with an attached aspirator (suction device). Hard to get but very easy to sell if you find that you don't want it any more. You will. This is a Techsew with the vacuum suction - https://www.techsew.com/en/catalog/product/view/id/1164/s/techsew-sk-4-leather-skiving-machine-with-vacuum-suction-device/