Thread size for sewing machines, can someone explain the numbers?

[Mulesaw]

@Gymnast 

Hi Viggo

I ended up buying Serafil because it was what I could get easily. I am thinking about getting some braided thread instead of spun, though I am not sure if it would be better, I would just like to try it so see if there is any difference.

Brgds

Jonas 

 

[DrmCa]

Braided is for hand-stitching steering wheel covers.

[Mulesaw]

@DrmCa I thought it could be used for general sewing as well. I think it is what we have on the sail makers sewing machine out here.

But will it not work on sewing machines for leather? (just curious)

[Wizcrafts]

Since the subject of using hand sewing thread on a sewing machine came up in this topic, here is something new sewers need to know.

Due to the manner in which sewing machine shuttles revolve as they pick off the thread loops, most modern single needle machines will cause multi-strand thread to separate unless it is left twist thread. In the case of twin needle machines, one side must be left and the other right twist to keep the thread intact. This is important whether the thread is bonded or not.

Another matter that sometimes comes up is overly twisty and stiff bonded thread. This thread will coil clockwise as it comes off the spool and tends to form knots as it turns on itself on the way to the needle. Certain black and dark brown threads are double dyed and are extremely twisty. The best solution I've found to offset this is to feed the thread counterclockwise through two holes in a thread guide on top of the machine. The farther apart those holes are the better. I use the top and bottom holes in the top guide on my Cowboy CB4500 to counter the overly twisty thread from Weaver and others. I feed it through the top inline hole, then around towards the front, then through the bottom inline hole. This counterclockwise turn helps with twisty thread while creating the least drag on the thread. It still adds top tension that must be dealt with on the tensioners.

[Mulesaw]

@Wizcrafts That's really good info!

I have noticed the twist tendency on my patcher when using some small spools that I got from a regular sewing machine store, I can't remember the brand, but it was heavy duty thread, I would guess it to be similar to a #69 or a Serafil size 40. I'll try to see if I can re-route it the way you suggest.

I have no idea of the Amann Serafil is left or right twisted. But so far it has worked, but I don't know if that is just because my sewing machines are old? (Singer class 7 from 1905 and a 29k51 patcher from the 30'ies if I remember correctly)

 

[Gymnast]

I normally call the thread S-twisted and Z-twisted. Almost all thread is Z-twisted unless otherwise specified and can as default be used on all sewing machines except for the situation Wizcrafts points out.

We had a thread about 2½ years ago about twisting of thread:

 

[Gymnast]

On 1/22/2022 at 6:15 PM, Wizcrafts said:

In the case of twin needle machines, one side must be left and the other right twist to keep the thread intact. This is important whether the thread is bonded or not.

Is it always the case? I guess this would be the case, if the hooks are spinning in opposite directions for drop in bobbin machines. If you look this part of video, you see that the hooks spin in same direction, and therefore the hooks pass the two needles in the same geometrically way. Therefore I should think it would require the same kind of thread for both needles and bobbins.

 

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, Gymnast said:

Is it always the case? I guess this would be the case, if the hooks are spinning in opposite directions for drop in bobbin machines. If you look this part of video, you see that the hooks spin in same direction, and therefore the hooks pass the two needles in the same geometrically way. Therefore I should think it would require the same kind of thread for both needles and bobbins.

Yes, you are correct. It is only on machines where one shuttle turns clockwise and the other counterclockwise that different thread twists are advised.

The Landis 12 series sole stitching machines all require right twist (waxed linen) thread. It's likely that other old shoe sewing machines have that right, or S twist requirement.

[DrmCa]

How would a sewing machine operator in a factory know left twist thread from right twist thread when having to thread their double-needle machine? Labels have a tendency to fall off cones, after a while, and not everyone's vision is good enough to see the twist, especially in low light that some factories have.

[kgg]

47 minutes ago, DrmCa said:

How would a sewing machine operator in a factory know left twist thread from right twist thread when having to thread their double-needle machine? Labels have a tendency to fall off cones, after a while, and not everyone's vision is good enough to see the twist, especially in low light that some factories have.

Depending on what they are making and if they are using a single or double needle machine they can assume they are using for single-needle sewing machine the Z-Twist (Left Twist) or they could actually twist the end of the tread thread and see which way it starts to unravel.

Besides the size, type, weight and yards or meters of thread information on the label I think the most important information is missing. How many twists are there on that spool of thread per yard or meter not how many yards are on the spool. With more twists per yard you get a smoother stronger thread which costs more to make and buy but should give you less thread related problems.

kgg