Pfaff 145 h3 reverse stitch length shorter than forward

[ThomasBH]

Hello,

My “new” Pfaff 145 has a couple of issues, namely the reverse stitch length is significantly shorter than the forward. Any tips of fixing this?

I found this forum thread, but the answer was not listed: 

 

My other two lesser issues are:

1. The screw holes in the bobbin cover/plate don’t seem to work with the thumb screws I have from my Mitsubishi DY350 binding attachments. Is this not a standard size, or should I order a new plate? (Anyone know of a decent priced North American supplier of these parts? I’m in Canada)

2. The needle bar will strike the outside foot on thicker fabrics. Unfortunately this machine only came with a welting foot and I do not have other ones to test on. 
 

Thanks!

 

[DanishMan]

Hi Thomas

The mismatch between forward and reverse stich length is most likely due to the lower transport not set correctly.

• Set the stich length to zero
• Rotate the hand wheel in the normal sewing direction and take the needle to bottom dead center (all the way down). Now continue rotating the handwheel and raise the needle slightly less than one millimeter.
• When moving the stitch length lever up and down, the feed dog should not move (or just very little). If is does move, adjust the eccentric on the main shaft (close to the handwheen).

If this does not solve the problem entirely, you can play a bit with the eccentric. 

Regarding the two additional questions, I am not sure about the size of the screws going into the metal cover.. May be it is easier to find new screws than a different cover.

I am not sure, what you mean with the second question. Could you possible take a few photos?

Brgds

Danishman

[ThomasBH]

Thanks for the detailed reply!

1. I will try again when I get home from work, but trying yesterday the stitch length screw seemed to bottom out around the “2”. Like the screw in the reverse leave cannot go to zero. 
2. I will take some photos later today, but basically the needle bar smashes into the outside of the welting foot and actually bends it out of the way which causes the screw to loosen, not to mention probably damages something. This only happens on very thick material, such as ~1/2” foam.

[DanishMan]

I made this video two years ago. At that time I used bottom dead center as reference for the feed dog not moving. Now I changed it to 1 mm up again.

Regarding the piping feet. Are they original?

[ThomasBH]

8 hours ago, DanishMan said:

I made this video two years ago. At that time I used bottom dead center as reference for the feed dog not moving. Now I changed it to 1 mm up again.

Regarding the piping feet. Are they original?

Since I got home I’ve been fiddling with the eccentric screw. I’m finding it difficult to get it to stay put after getting the feed dog to not move in the needle down position because the two screws aren’t exposed until you rotate the hand wheel a bit. I’ll keep trying! Thanks for the video and reply!

and looking at this piping foot in comparison to the parts catalogue and it must not be original. Here you can see it striking the needle bar. 

[ThomasBH]

After fiddling with the eccentric screw in micro adjustments for about 3 hours I found a decent enough balance that it will at least match the stitch length closely for about 8 reverse stitches before going off, so this was promising…however this was all done at the longest stitch length and as soon as I reduced the stitch length it is completely off! I will keep fiddling to see if I can fix this for any stitch length. 
 

Any tips would be appreciated!

[Constabulary]

I have not worked on Pfaff machines for quite a while but what I would probably try is to set the stitch length 1/2 way of the longest factory stitch length (if 6mm then to 3mm if 4mm then to 2mm....) and try to balance the F & R stitch length equally. The idea is that the amount the stitch length is off is approx. the same in shorter and longer stitches and probably not as significant as when you adjust it from the longest stitch. Not sure if this is what Pfaff recommends and I have not tried this by my self (have nothing to work on atm) but may worth giving it a try.

Makes sense? Maybe, maybe not.

I know a lot of folks prefer Pfaffs but I (obviously) do prefer Singer (or Singer based) triple feed machines cause they are fairly easy to adjust F + R stitch length like on the 111 and 211 models - the later 211 (at least the 211U) even have a screw for hat.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Constabulary

[Michiel]

5 hours ago, ThomasBH said:

I’m finding it difficult to get it to stay put after getting the feed dog to not move in the needle down position because the two screws aren’t exposed until you rotate the hand wheel a bit

What i do is rotating the exentric just a litle bit, fix it, and than rotate the handwheel to check the feed

(and repeat that a few times) 

most of the times i put the needle at the hook point ( the position you use on timing the hook - needle) but i think it depends on the model / make of the machine

[ThomasBH]

Thank you all for your replies. I will try halving the stitch length, which is a bit of guess work on this machine (it’s not entirely clear when you’re at certain lengths) then adjusting the eccentric screw in micro-adjustments. I’ll post my results after some fiddling. 

[ThomasBH]

Still cannot get this to work. I can’t even get it back to the best point I had it at last night. I feel like I have done hundreds of small adjustments. I can easily get it to that “no movement 1mm above dead bottom centre on the feed dog ” but this doesn’t help. Neither does doing incremental changes in either direction. Eventually if I keep going the thing starts going in reverse, but never matches forward and backward stitch length, especially at the shorter lengths. Lowering the stitch length seems to make the issue exponentially worse. 
 

Is there anything else that may be out? Timing?

[Constabulary]

I remember is this video. Especially check from 9:50 min onward. Maybe you can check on your 145 if you have the same issue cause the stitch length lever seem to be the same on the industrial Pfaffs. Just a guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtT7QejY2eQ

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Constabulary

[ThomasBH]

18 hours ago, Constabulary said:

I remember is this video. Especially check from 9:50 min onward. Maybe you can check on your 145 if you have the same issue cause the stitch length lever seem to be the same on the industrial Pfaffs. Just a guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtT7QejY2eQ

 

 

Thank you so much! This completely solved my issue, it ends up the previous owner had placed that tapered nut upside-down on the reverse lever! Such a simple solution after pouring what seemed like 5+ hours of punching holes in paper!

For reference for anyone with this same issue, the attached photo shows the nut in the correct orientation. 
 

still a little fine tuning to do with the eccentric to get it perfect, but it is already almost perfect even ten stitches backwards no matter the stitch length. 
 

Thanks for everyone’s help!

[Constabulary]

Ha - excellent! Glad you solved this.

[ThomasBH]

After much more fiddling I now think that I'm just chasing my tail. Every non-eccentric screw adjustment seems to affect the relationship between the forward and reverse stitch...the foot height adjustment wingnut and stitch length all seem to affect this in a large way. So if I adjust the eccentric screw to have forward and reverse perfectly match for a stitch length of "2", it will be off within just a couple of stitches if I adjust the foot height wingnut or the stitch length.

Is this normal? Do other non-Pfaff machines do this?

[Michiel]

In the service manual there is always an order in which you should do all the adjustments (and sometimes the advise doing an previous adjusment again)

i think it is best to check all the adjustments in the right order before doing the adjustment which is obvious neccesary 

(but i have to admit i am usualy not very concerned about being revers and forward exact the same since i hardly notice small differences if i  just make two or three stirches back and forward)

[ThomasBH]

Thanks Michiel. Unfortunately I have not been able to located a service manual for the 145. Does anyone know where I can download one?

[Johnny]

Thomas

This is as close to a service manual that I have found, not sure where I got it from.

I have used it many times to keep mine running smooth.

Johnny

PFAFF 145-545 Setup.pdf

Edited February 8, 2022 by Johnny

[ThomasBH]

2 hours ago, Johnny said:

Thomas

This is as close to a service manual that I have found, not sure where I got it from.

I have used it many times to keep mine running smooth.

Johnny

PFAFF 145-545 Setup.pdf 816.77 kB · 3 downloads

Thank you very much Johnny.

Reading point 9.2 it mentions the needle bar should not strike the raised foot. My outer foot does strike the needle bar when raised in this situation. Should I attempt to raise the needle bar? I think this will cause issues with the hook timing unless I had a longer needle. I'm using 134-35 needles, but this machine also came with a lot of 135-17. Also, the only foot it came with is a welting foot and it appears to be after market, which is why it may be striking the bar.

[Johnny]

Thomas

What is the complete number of your machine located on the brass tag (mine is 145-P-6/1-216C H4LMN)?

I would get a regular set of pressor feet, eBay has several sets at a reasonable price.

Start with a new Needle (just to make sure the current one is not bent), I believe your machine should use the 134-35 Needles.
Section 3, setting up your Needle Rise height, 3.2.6 the hook point should be just past the center line of the Needle this is important for the other adjustments.
Section 4, check your Needle Bar height and adjust if required.
Section 5, Needle to Hook distance, this one takes some patience to get just right.
Section 6, Needle Guard easy one but important.
Now would be a good time to check the alternating foot, foot motion, feed dog.

Check to see if the machine sews good in forward.

Now go back and adjust as above for your forward/reverse stitch length.

Send me a PM I have a parts manual but its to big to attach here.

Johnny

[ThomasBH]

Johnny, thank you for the help!

My machine is a 145 H3 6/01.

My needle is definitely new, I'm using the 134-35. I have also ordered a variety of feet (binding, regular and zipper) but alas, they are taking weeks to arrive.

I'm definitely going to be trying all of the sections you mentioned, however it is very "dense" filled with jargon I'll have to look up, so it will take me a while. Even 'hook point' or 'centerline of the needle' are confusing to me. I will keep reading and look some of these terms up.

I will send you a PM for the manual.

[ThomasBH]

So I've spend some time fiddling and reading manuals / watching youtube videos.

1. I adjusted the needle bar height to be the exact height of the outer walking foot so that it wouldn't collide, but this caused other issues, namely the hook point did not meet the scarf to grab the upper thread properly. Made some terrible sounds and broke a needle. I could not find a manual for the 145/545 mentioning the distance the needle bar should be at bottom dead center (BDC), but in a 1245 repair manual it mentioned 15mm. It was set to 15mm before I made these adjustments, so I just returned it back to 15mm. I am assuming that this aftermarket welting foot is the issue and am hoping the proper Pfaff foot doesn't strike. Can anyone confirm what the 145 H3 needle bar height should be set to?

2. Watching this video (also for a 1245) it states that the needle hook should be right in the middle of the scarf. My machine seems to be slightly lower than this. It mentions the needle bar should be at BDC, then 2mm up for the hook to meet the scarf. Mine is probably 3mm up, however it seems to be working fine. I also notice that the hook also hits and deflects the needle slightly, maybe 0.5mm. I see in another Cechaflo 1245 video he has his 1245 hitting the scarf slightly. Should I be concerned with this? Should I adjust it to be exactly 2mm and not touch the scarf?

3. Relating to both 1 & 2, my machine is supposed to be using the 134-35 needles but the previous owner gave me about 10 packs of 135-17s, which are about 1mm longer. So maybe he had timed the machine for the longer needles? Maybe because they were more available? I am going to try using one of these to see if it works any differently.

4. Will any of the above adjustments actually affect the forward to reverse motion of the stitch length?

 

[Johnny]

Thomas

1. Can anyone confirm what the 145 H3 needle bar height should be set to? My machine is a H4 and uses 190 needle system. I can give you that dimension if you want it when I get home.

2. Should I adjust it to be exactly 2mm and not touch the scarf? The needle bar should rise 2mm (for a C model machine) and should not touch the hook about .1mm clearance.

3. Timing for 134-35, 135-17 needles. If the only difference is the 1mm length then set the needle bar height using that needle. I probably would start with the recommended needle system for your machine.

4. Will any of the above adjustments actually affect the forward to reverse motion of the stitch length?  In my case I could not get the reverse stitch length correct, I checked and made adjustments from the setup document and then I was able to get the reverse stitch length fixed. My needle bar height was way off and I am amazed it even sewed.

Try this with a fine black marker place a line 1.5mm above the top of the eye of the needle and install it then bring your needle bar up 2mm the tip of the hook should be at the black line if not loosen the needle bar screw and adjust it so that it is.

I am wondering if the reverse stitch length is not correct because of the welting foot and not having a regular foot installed?

I have an extra set of pressor feet if you want I could send them to you and you can send them back when you get yours. I am happy to help if you like send me a pm and I will give you my number maybe be easier to help over the phone. 

Johnny

Edited February 14, 2022 by Johnny
Typo

[Johnny]

Thomas

Can anyone confirm what the 145 H3 needle bar height should be set to? Mine has 20mm at bottom, again my machine is a H4 it has 14mm pressor foot clearance.

Once I had the timing right I was able to adjustment the eccentric to correct the reverse stitch length. One thing I might add to adjusting the eccentric is to place reference marks on it to keep track of the direction and how much I moved it, do little bit at a time.

Don't give up these are great machines!

Johnny

[ThomasBH]

20 hours ago, Johnny said:

Johnny, thank you for the detailed reply!

1. Can anyone confirm what the 145 H3 needle bar height should be set to? My machine is a H4 and uses 190 needle system. I can give you that dimension if you want it when I get home.

I’d appreciate that, but I think the H4 would have a significantly higher needle bar proportional to the extra needle length.

2. Should I adjust it to be exactly 2mm and not touch the scarf? The needle bar should rise 2mm (for a C model machine) and should not touch the hook about .1mm clearance.

Upon more fiddling the hook point was touching only the eye of the needle, so I lowered the needle bar so that it will arrive in the middle of the scarf  

3. Timing for 134-35, 135-17 needles. If the only difference is the 1mm length then set the needle bar height using that needle. I probably would start with the recommended needle system for your machine.

Agreed that I should be focus on using the recommended needle and that is what I’ve been doing for my adjustments. 

4. Will any of the above adjustments actually affect the forward to reverse motion of the stitch length?  In my case I could not get the reverse stitch length correct, I checked and made adjustments from the setup document and then I was able to get the reverse stitch length fixed. My needle bar height was way off and I am amazed it even sewed.

Try this with a fine black marker place a line 1.5mm above the top of the eye of the needle and install it then bring your needle bar up 2mm the tip of the hook should be at the black line if not loosen the needle bar screw and adjust it so that it is.

I am wondering if the reverse stitch length is not correct because of the welting foot and not having a regular foot installed?

This is hopefully the issue and nothing harder to fix. Same with my my needle bar striking the outside foot. I think my needle bar is arriving 1.5mm above the eye, but I will try this trick with the marker.

I have an extra set of pressor feet if you want I could send them to you and you can send them back when you get yours. I am happy to help if you like send me a pm and I will give you my number maybe be easier to help over the phone. 

Thank you for the offer and will take you up on it if mine do not arrive (I’m leaving for two weeks with work today,  so theoretically they’ll arrive within that time)

Certainly I’m close to my wit’s end. I feel like I have done virtually everything recommend and the timing should be on.

-the hook point meets the middle of the scarf approx. 3mm up from BDC

-I reduce the needle bar height to match the above once the hook point was perfectly centre of needle, I think it’s around 14mm now. This has now worsened the striking of that outside foot.

-The walking feet seem to be arriving at the feed dogs at the correct time after adjustment

-While this machine is new to me I hadn’t fully tested it before having the above issues but the thread tension is having a lot of issues as well. I’ve played with the upper and lower many times and it’s just not working right. I definitely have to have the upper way tighter than a machine should and it still won’t balance the knot in the middle. Sometimes I almost think I got to cooperate, then it causes tension balance issues on turns, or a will just be inconsistent. This has me thinking my timing is off, but I followed that YouTube video very closely

So many issues!

Thanks for any additional help! I wont be able to touch the machine for a few weeks by the way.

 

20 hours ago, Johnny said:

 

 

[ThomasBH]

After much more fiddling and a local sewing machine technician stopped by I seem to have gotten my 145 into a state that I'm pretty happy with.

While the forward / reverse stitch length was the most noticeable issue when I first received the machine, after additional testing the inconsistent tension was of much more concern. My forward and reverse stitches are still not consistent, especially if I change the stitch length. (I have decided to just leave it at '2' for most purposes where I have adjusted it to match fwd/rev for at least 4 or 5 stitches)

The tech found four issues:

1. The hook/bobbin assembly was not fully seated in its slot (maybe a couple of mm higher than it should've been) This caused this part to wobble:

2. The hook/bobbin assembly position needed to be rotated slightly(using the right hand screw that allows some horizontal adjustment)

3. The throat plate had been damaged/enlarged where the hook/bobbin case slots into it on the underside, this caused loops to form at the wrong time. Here you can see the closest throat plate with some damage/odd shape and the new binding throat plate in the rear of what it should look like.

4. Micro burs / sharp edges on some components

Thank you all for your help, much appreciated. I have tried to include lots of photos and descriptions to help any future users facing issues. Feel free to DM me if you need any help yourselves.

Also, for those interested you can get very cheap binding sets to have a cylinder arm style synchronized binder, this would work on a 145, 545 and 1245.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003451959950.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.14334c4d3mdpTs