Singer 29-4

[Davidmadd]

Hi - I'm seeking advice at the end (nearly) of my rebuild of a Singer 29K4 .....I bought it in a seized state and decided to completely rebuild it.  I carefully dismantled (several years ago) and cleaned each and every part and repainted the exterior.  I have now decided its time to reassemble.  This went pretty much as planned.  I was aware that many of the pinned components used a taper pin that can only be reassembled one way, and took care to ensure that each pin was inserted in the two component parts from the correct side.  All pins went in as they should and the "witness" marks of the additional grub screws were in alignment.  When I came to look closely at getting it to actually stitch I found the the timing appeared to be 180 degrees out.  The shuttle and hook were totally out as the needle started its lift. My first thought was that I had messed up with the gearing driving the shuttle but after much fiddling it seems it will pretty much only fit one way and was still 180 degrees out.  I've searched the web and two You Tube articles stood out.  In one of them the owner redrilled and refitted the large casting on the main shaft which gives the motion to the under-beak gears.  In the second clip the owner needed to remove the main shaft pulley and move it through 180 degrees and refit it.  I've looked closely at mine and can confirm that that the tapered pins are correctly located as is the witness marks on the shaft made by the grub screws so I just cant see how any of these two components can be reversed....Before I start redrilling taper pin holes etc, can anyone out there offer advice on just how I can be 180 degrees out.  I'm pretty sure that the machine has seen quite a bit of use although there doesn't appear to be too much wear on the parts......

Many thanks in advance.

David ;Plymouth; UK 

 

[kgg]

2 hours ago, Davidmadd said:

Before I start redrilling taper pin holes etc, can anyone out there offer advice on just how I can be 180 degrees out. 

Have you tried to rotating the "Needle Bar Cam and Pulley Wheel". If you are sure you are 180 degrees out I would rotate the position of that pulley on the top main shaft as it serves two purposes. Allows the drive belt to be attached to the drive pulley, and determines the rotating relationship of the top main shaft to the shuttle shaft as it follows the groove in the backside of the pulley. Just remove the set pin in the pulley, slide towards the end of the shaft and rotate it 180 degrees and reinstall.

kgg

[Davidmadd]

Thanks for your reply kgg... I have just had a go at trying that solution...Whilst it is possible to get the tapered pin into the holes in the "new" position it does not sit right.  The pin only goes in so far   The timing does look better though....Cant try it properly as the new needle clamp plate does not sit correctly on end of the needle shaft.  This is a hardened item and too hard to file so Ill need to heat it to soften if, modify it and then re-harden it......However I find it difficult to accept a solution which seems a bit of a "fudge" as its obvious that the pulley/cam plate wants to sit around the other way where the holes and tapered pin fit nicely.

So although it would probably get it working, it doesn't solve the fact that the timing is 180 degrees out......Now the only other bit that came off was the large cam casting that surrounds the main shaft inside the machine.  When I came to replace this piece I had to decide which way around that one went.  By examining the shaft itself I could clearly see the witness marks left by the locking grub screw so it went back in with the bulk of the casting towards the aforementioned Pulley cam. In this position the tapered pin went in fully and aligned everything beautifully.  The the bevel drive pinion also aligned with the front wheel pinion.

However I'm sure I have seen a You Tube photo which made me think it should be on the other way around, but then again, I've also seen a photo of it being fitted the way I have it so some help to confirm which is the correct way would be welcomed. It would mean quite a dismantling process to remove this casting and fit it the other way round, then reassemble to see if it worked so I will leave that for a while to see if anyone can confirm which way around it should be fitted.....that will give me time to source a new needle clamp or modify existing one....

David; Plymouth; UK

[kgg]

A couple of photo's would help to show what is going on.

kgg

[Davidmadd]

OK, Thanks kgg--

The LH photo shows the cam Pulley wheel with it "reversed" in this position, as the holes are drilled at a slight angle, the pin is pushing the pulley into the boss of the machine and does not rotate smoothly. You can see the amount the pin sticks out after several light taps with a hammer.  In the second photo, in its proper position, you can clearly see the pin fully inserted, the pulley stays square to shaft and rotates smoothly,

I have no room for further photos but if necessary can show position of the bobbin and hook.  When the pulley is in the first position above, the needle bar starts to rise just before the shuttle hook passes the needle position, which appears to me, to be correct. With the pulley/cam wheel replaced as per in the second photo, the shuttle hook looks to be in the correct position, close to the needle but as I turn the operating handle, the bobbin hook stays in the same place as the needle rises and then starts to turn when the needle is way clear of the bobbin area, which seems wrong.

Now please bear in mind that I have never seen this machine operating so struggled in the first instance to know which way to turn the side mounted wheel, and in the end turned clockwise, which moved the pulley wheel as per a conventional sewing machine with the top of the pulley coming towards the operator.

When I put it back together I fitted the link that goes inside the back cover plate just wherever it wanted to go.  I'm pondering whether this should line up with any marks on the link and the casting.  If I disconnected it and then turned the pulley/cam wheel through 180 degrees and refitted it, would that make any difference???  I never disconnected the bottom of the link from the long gear bar so that must be as original.

Now one other question if I can push my luck a bit.  The small wheel on a lug which sits on the end of the rocking beam, and sits inside the cam groove of the pulley/cam wheel, has a significant flat on it but I dont know if this is by design or wear. Can you please advise if the flat is supposed to be there????

Again, many thanks for your help and opinions....

David

 

 

[kgg]

What I would do first is check and see if the shuttle gears are placed correctly and the hook is cycling correctly. Youtube video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwaAFjj9468&list=PLQfkXK-k2GObuzXBR8wKzGMRfv2j5_i0C ) and since finding a parts manual for the 29k-4 is difficult I would look at the some of the parts manuals for a 29k-71 to help with showing how they fit together.

kgg

 

[Davidmadd]

Hi kgg - I think I've moved along somewhat now.  I did check the the shuttle gear action and my gears are a little different that shown with a broader plain end and fewer teeth.  I think they are set up correctly.

I removed the pin from the large casting on the shaft inside the machine, and the grub screw and turned the casting through 180 degrees. Delighted to say that the tapered pin went in all the way and that seemed to solve the timing as the needle bar now raises as its close to the hook.  What I found now was that the presser foot action to move material forward is now 180 degrees out as its happening with the needle bar in the lower position, i.e. with the needle still penetrating the material. I fixed that by loosening four securing screws of the front piece and keeping the vertical slide bar in the same place on the front end, turned the pulley wheel through 180 degrees and then put it all back together. I tried a needle in the needle bar but on the first revolution it broke as it hit the metal shuttle cover. The needle was not laying straight as the small needle clamp was not sitting correctly on the needle bar. The locating spigot on clamp was a couple thou out and would not sit into the corresponding one on the needle bar.  I removed that and used a small grinding wheel to remove the problem and now it sits down flat.  I have tried placing a bit of material under the presser foot but it is not being moved forward by the presser foot action. It goes through the motions but the material doesnt move.  There is a small gap under the presser foot at all times and I dont see any way of lowering it.  I've tried turning down the screw on the long spring but that doesn't alter anything and the gap still exists.  I have ordered a new presser foot in case the existing one is too badly worn. It doesnt look particularly good so I guess I will need to wait until that arrives from China......

The long spring and the block that sits on it has been a constant issue, as they were missing when I acquired the machine.  About 4 years ago when I dismantled it, I asked this forum if anyone could advise me of the dimensions so I could make new, but that didnt prompt any resonse, so I scaled it up from the parts diagram. I made the spring from high tensile steel and was advised by the supplier how I could heat treat it to turn it into a spring.  I tried this just recently but in my limited workshop I cannot get the metal hot enough throughout its length to correctly temper the metal.  I think I will now try and make one by cutting the shape out of an industrial heavy duty machine hacksaw blade.  I did this for a Singer 132K6 that utilises a similar spring and used several blades to build up thickness then encased them inside heat shrink electrical insulation tubing. This kept them together and makes a satisfactory leaf spring as a replacement.

Thats about me up to date on this somewhat troublesome 29K4.

Regards

David; Plymouth; UK

[DrmCa]

11 minutes ago, Davidmadd said:

arrives from China.

Isn't it like 10 pounds at College Sewing?

A wad of caowool wrapped around an eBay alumina tube may be the solution for your quenching troubles. Blow a MAPP gas or propane torch diagonally into the tube with the spring inside until how enough and shove it out into your preferred quenching liquid.

Edited February 6, 2022 by DrmCa

[kgg]

13 minutes ago, Davidmadd said:

I have tried placing a bit of material under the presser foot but it is not being moved forward by the presser foot action. It goes through the motions but the material doesnt move. 

Could you post a photo of the pressor foot. The top adjuster for the pressor foot only adds more tension on the spring and does not lower the pressor foot it only adds more pressure to the pressor foot to hold the material in place. Have you tried to lower the pressor foot so the gauge shows it at it's lowest setting?

kgg

Edited February 6, 2022 by kgg
missing sentence

[Davidmadd]

Thanks DrmCa...That material, tube and insulating wool, is something I am unfamiliar with but will investigate further. It certainly looks interesting....

The purchase of the new presser foot was from a very well known on-line retailer who offers a one day delivery service on many items. It was only after I saw the delivery forecast that I realised it had to come from China, and will take several weeks no doubt.  I have since purchased another one from a UK supplier and it should be with me in a day or two.  I have put a shim of metal on top of the shuttle cover plate and with that in place the presser foot does move the material along as it should.  I will wait and see how the new presser foot performs with the existing shuttle cover plate and if there is still a problem I will look at getting a new heavy duty thicker plate.

In response to kgg's question, there is no facility to lower the presser foot as far as I am aware and I'm not sure what the reference to a gauge is. Is that a feeler gauge put under the presser foot?  I can see daylight under the foot which makes me think the presser foot is well worn. It certainly looks it but I will compare with new when that arrives.

Once again thanks for all your help.

David; Plymouth UK

[kgg]

34 minutes ago, Davidmadd said:

there is no facility to lower the presser foot as far as I am aware and I'm not sure what the reference to a gauge is.

The gauge I was referencing is the stitch regulator that is slid up or down to change the length of stitch. I am wondering wether this may have jammed the pressor foot in an upward position.

Since I don't have a parts manual for 29k-4 I would ask you to check and see if you can follow the section " To Regulate the automatic Lift of the Feeding Foot" on page 13 using Fig. 31 of the 29k-71 to change the height of the pressor foot.

kgg

[Davidmadd]

Thanks kgg - I will have a look at that but in the meantime I have managed to get it to stitch.  I did get a new presser foot and fitted that, and sure enough it moved the material under the foot, I then threaded it and lo and behold it stitched a piece of leather. Not a brilliant stitch but pretty good for a first attempt.  The gauge does move up and down and does make some difference to the stitch length but on the longest stitch setting its only 9 or 10 per inch which seems a bit small to me. I have read that wear takes a toll on the stitch length but not sure which bit wears. So from here on in it will be a bit of fine tuning.  Whether or not I actually use it in anger remains to be seen so I will end this topic on a high note and say many thanks for everybody's help and interest and encouragement to get to a successful conclusion.

David:Plymouth;UK

[Wizcrafts]

6 hours ago, Davidmadd said:

The gauge does move up and down and does make some difference to the stitch length but on the longest stitch setting its only 9 or 10 per inch which seems a bit small to me. I have read that wear takes a toll on the stitch length but not sure which bit wears.

There are at least three parts that cause the stitches to get shorter than specs. The primary part that wears down is the Feed Motion Bell Crank Lever, #8559, followed by the Ring Slide Bar, with #1816 cam roller, and the #1801 cam roller on the back of top Needle Bar Driving Lever that fits into a cam on the back shaft behind the balance wheel. I attached the Singer 29-4 parts list in pdf format, below.

29-4 Parts list Original Singer Doc.pdf

[Davidmadd]

Thanks Wizcraft for the parts list, great pictures. 

Interesting that the main bits to cause the thread pitch to vary include the cam rollers. especially No. 1801.  When I put this one back into the cam on back of pulley wheel, I noticed it had a pronounced flat at one point on the roller and I dont know if that is a designed feature or in fact a "worn" flat. It could feasibly be a worn spot if the roller had seized on its shat up at one time.

Can you advise if it should be there?????  As the parts list picture shows just a plain shaft, I assume the shaft is a push fit into the rocking beam end???

Many thanks

David

[shoepatcher]

If #1801 has a flat spot on it, the roller is worn.  Should be round all the way around.  Replace the stud and roller with a new one. The large top rack must be removed and there is a hole on the end that you insert a drive punch in and drive the old shaft out carefully.  I always taper the the end of the new shaft on the sander just a little bit.  The new shaft and roller must be driven into the old hole. You have to get a tapered pouch that fits into the tapered hole on the end of the roller to tape it in.  If you do not and drive shaft and roller into the end of the drive rack, you will compress the peen on the roller and roller will not turn.  That is important.

glenn

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by shoepatcher

[Davidmadd]

Hi Shoepatcher - Thats great, it was such a well defined flat that I thought its feasible that it should be there but now you have confirmed that it should be truly circular I will get a new one and fit that. Hopefully it will restore the stitch length as well.

Many thanks for the advice on how to remove and fix as well.

Regards

David; Plymouth; UK