Wizcrafts

Yes, and with ballistic nylon and Biothane. You may need to use a size larger needle to maintain a suitable exit hole in these materials, which tend to self-heal. When (not if) you get your 441 machine, be sure to order needles in one size above and below your expected regular size, based on the primary thread size you will be using. For leather, use leather point needles.

When you say you want a machine for heavy leather work, by my definition, you have already eliminated 90% of the industrial sewing machines on the market. I define heavy leather sewing as anything over 3/8 inch in thickness, or any thickness using #277 or larger thread.. Thus, a 1/4" thick double bridle leather belt, edge and fishtail sewn with #277 thread, requires a heavy duty leather stitcher. To me, a leather stitcher is not the same thing as a sewing machine that sews leather. The Adler 205-370 and Juki TSC441 are the models upon which the modern day 441 clones are based. Either of those machines can pound through about 19 mm of hard leather, with #346 thread, using a #27 needle, of system 794. The modern 441 clones have improved on those specs and can now sew up to 7/8 inch, with a #28 needle and #415 thread. The only other heavy leather machines qualified to sew that thick, with very heavy thread, are the Union Lockstitch and Campbell Lockstitch needle and awl machines. These machines sew through wood and even pennies!

No, it would definitely NOT be realistic to expect that on Leatherworker.net. Not to say it couldn't happen; it's just not likely. Most of our members are only sewing leather, especially heavy leather, with thick thread. You can post it for sale in our Marketplace section and maybe somebody who repairs or makes cloth garments will want it. Your Singer 120U is a garment maker's machine. It might be of use to a local dry cleaner, or tailor shop. Those businesses like high speed, self-oiling, drop feed machines that can sew with #40 or #50 cotton or polycore thread, or "invisible" thread. Upholsters do not like drop feed machines, unless they also do fine work, like sewing on lace appliques. Leather workers prefer walking foot machines that can handle at the very least, #138 bonded nylon thread. Holster and heavy strap makers need a machine that can sew up to or over 3/4 inch, using #346 thread, or thicker. These machines are geared down to sew at the rate of 1 to 3 stitches per second. Your Singer 120U is probably setup to sew at somewhere between 30 to 60 stitches per second. In order to get the best price for that drop feed machine you must market it to the right audience. You can try selling it on eBay, with local pickup as the option.

That Singer is strictly a garment sewing machine, meant for factory use. It sews fast on purpose. It is designed to tension cotton or polycore thread in the light weights used in garments, like shirts and pants. Due to its using a short needle stroke system, it cannot sew thick stacks of material. This machine will not properly sew veg-tan leather with #138 thread, or heavier. You will be limited to using #69 bonded nylon, top and bottom. There are very few improvements you can make to that machine. To slow it down requires a replacement servo motor. To feed veg-tan leather you will need to convert it into a roller foot machine. Still, it won't sew 18 ounces of leather, even with #69 thread. As for a walking foot machine, if you mean an upholstery grade machine for 20 ounce veg-tan holsters, maybe, maybe not. It depends on what machine and how new it is and if it can tension heavy thread. Most walking foot machines max out at #138 thread. However, it is possible to use up to #207 on top and 138 in the bobbin. These machines are limited to sewing no more than 3/8 inch thickness. If you can sell the 120U on Craigslist, or a local classifieds, do so. Save your money and buy a "441" clone, like those made by Cowboy or Cobra, with a 9 or 16.5 inch arm and flat table attachment. They easily sew 3/4 inch, with up to #415 thread. And, these machine come with a servo motor and a speed reducer pulley between the motor and machine. With their long needles, they can sew over 3/4 inch of material, including veg-tan leather. You can list your machine for sale or trade in our Marketplace section, under Leather machinery > Sewing Machines > Used

I use the spring guide feet with caution and mostly on smaller straps, like for watch bands and such. They ride up too easily, unless you have really cleaned up the spring and the channel is moves in.

Congratulations to Ben for correctly defining a C&C warning as Coffee and Cats! The N.A.N.A-E newsgroup was run by network administrators responsible for email systems, many of whom were very geeky people, like me. Many such folk had familiars, er, cats, to assist them with the magic of keeping email servers up and running and in combating spammers. This assistance was provided by the cat curling up on their laps. The trick was to be able to read through various fresh topics, while drinking coffee and trying not to disturb the familiar, er, cat. Sometimes, a member would post a really funny joke, or sarcastic statement, which was as a courtesy prefaced with a warning in the subject: C&C Warning, or C&C Alert. This was to alert all members holding a cup and a cat to rid themselves of both before reading the funny comments. Failure to do so could result in coffee being spit out all over the keyboard and monitor and getting clawed by the cat as it flees for its life, off the comfy perch on our laps.

CLUE NUMBER TWO: NANAE Newsgroup

Think back to 1996, just at the end of the BBS period, when USENET became popular. Every Email Client also included a Newsgroup reader. CLUE NUMBER ONE:

In the early days of the Interwebs, long before there were forums, there were special interest Newsgroups (SIGS), that used a protocol known as NNTP (Network News Transfer Protocol). A certain jargon developed among members of these SIGS, including shorthand abbreviations for commonly used words and phrases. In NewsgroupSpeak, OP stands for : Original Poster - the person who started the thread to which others were replying. Sometimes these threads became so long that the original message was lost in the ever expanding list of replies. Those who remembered the first poster's question would refer to that person as the OP. Now, I am issuing a C&C Alert to those who are from the NNTP generation. All in the know can reply with the definition of a C&C Alert.

By setting the stitch length lever in the middle you neutralize the forward/backward position of the needle bar and feed dog, taking them out of the equation. All you need to adjust it the position of the pickup point, with the needle bar in a centered position, relative to forward and backward.

Here's a thought about the old thread. Get a large enough container to hold the spool of thread. Get some clear sewing machine oil, or a couple quarts of liquid silicon and immerse the thread in the lubricant until it has thoroughly absorbed it into the windings. Remove the lube from the container and let the spool drip dry. When the dripping stops, wipe it down with a few paper towels, thread it into the machine, and see if this helps alleviate the sticking needle problem. The thread will carry the oil or silicon to the needle, which delivers it to the dry leather. Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines has Schmetz needles and nylon thread. They now carry their own brand of pre-lubricated Cowboy thread.

Try using a #26 leather point needle. #25 is minimal for 346 thread and this leather requires a bigger hole. Crank the top pressure spring all the way down. If you have a wide presser foot set, change to it. The wider the feet, the more pressure they exert per square inch. Until you get a lube pot and liquid silicon, buy a can of silicon spray and spray it on the needle as you sew. Some leather is so dry and dense that you have to sew it while it is wet. Try moistening the flesh sides and bottom before gluing them together. Stainless steel feet and throat plates are made for wet sewing. Call Bob Kovar (866-362-7397) about getting a set of his stainless feet and a throat plate.

What common machines are supposed to use system 134? The shank diameter seems wider than DBx257 (1157?) I used in my old 96k.

I have a small box full of leftover needles, in 134 R and LR and 134-35 LR. The 134 R and 134 LR needles are 1.5 inches long and 34 mm from the top of the shank to the eye. The 134-35 LR measure 1 5/8 inches stem to stern, and are 38 mm from the top to the eye. Both systems appear to have the same diameter shank: about 5/64" I'm not sure which were for the Pfaff zigzag head I used to own, and which were used on my 96k40, perhaps with the needle bar raised.

I use either #138 or #277 for belts, depending on how thick they are. #138 is fine for thinner belts, up to about 12 ounces combined, with a suede lining. Once I cross 1/4 inch, I like #277, top and bottom, for the greater strength per stitch. This calls for a #26 needle. I sew with #138 thread on my flatbed National walking foot machine. I can sew about a dozen belts per bobbin load (large M bobbin), with #138 bonded nylon thread. I use a #23 leather point needle. The #277 is sewn on my Union Lockstitch machine. Its bobbins hold about one hundred yards of #277 thread.

TT; A walking foot machine has the correct feed system for leather, but more is needed to actually sew the stuff properly. Let's take one machine as an example. The Consew 206RB-5 This sewing machine has triple feed. The needle, inner presser foot and feed dog all move in concert, to feed the material. While the material is in motion the outer foot is lifted up. When the feed reaches the end of its stitch length, the needle begins to ascend, the feeder drops under the surface, and the outer foot lowers to secure the material. Finally, the inside foot lifts off and moves with the needle to prepare for the next stitch. The feed dog begins to raise up just as the needle and inner foot make contact with the top of the material and so it continues. As normally setup (for upholstery), this machine sews really fast and furious. I'm talking about 3000 stitches per minute! If you sewed a leather belt at that speed it would catch on fire! So, the first thing one must do to an upholstery class machine is to slow it waaaaaaay down. This can be done by means of changing the motor pulley to one much smaller, adding a 3:1 speed reducer pulley, or swapping out the motor for a servo motor, with a small pulley. Next, the top tension spring that ships with the machine is light weight and best suited to tensioning up to #92 bonded nylon thread. It will tension #138, but will have trouble pulling the knots up into a thick payload. So, a leather machines seller may change that spring to give you more top tension. A stock 206RB type is expected to sew through relatively soft loads, like denim, upholstery leather, Naugahyde, cloth seat covers, etc. To sew harder tempered leather we need to change the needles to leather point needles. Larger needles are needed to poke a hole that is large enough to pull the knots well up into the hard leather. Sometimes this dense material changes the timing, so a leather sewing machine may be timed differently than the same one used for upholstery. Then since it takes more pressure to hold down veg-tan leather between stitches, than vinyl or upholstery leather, we sometimes swap out the coil spring over the outside presser foot for one with stronger coils. It is interesting to note that even though your machine has been altered to sew leather efficiently, it will not lose its ability to sew light weight materials. But, you will need to reduce the top tension and use smaller needles. There are other changes that can be made to a flatbed or cylinder arm walking foot machine, to make it more friendly to veg-tan leather, but these are the basics.

Oops! I listed a type 135x15 by accident. It should have read 135x17, which has round point. 135x16 is a leather point of the same type.

I'll start! Make: Union Lockstitch Machine One Model, since late 1890's Max thickness: 6 layers 8 ounce veg-tan leather Thread capabilities: Bonded nylon or polyester; sizes 138 through 554. Irish Linen thread: 3 cord through 10 cord, left twist. Needle and awl system, using a barbed needle. Huge round bobbins that hold hundreds of feet of thread. Max SPI: 4 Type: Modern walking foot flat bed (e.g. Consew, Chandler, or Juki), with large bobbin Thickness: 3/8 inch, all day long Needles: System 135x15, 135x16: sizes 12 through 25 Thread handling: #46 through #207. Best when used with #138, top and bottom. Max SPI: 3 or 4 Make: Juki Model: LU-1508NH Capacity: 7/16 inch Needle system: Pfaff type 190: Needle size range: #12 through 25 Thread capacities: #46 through #207 Max SPI: ~3 Make: Singer Model: 29k172 Max thickness: 1/4 inch to 5/16 inch Needle type: 29x3, 29x4, 135x15, 135x16 Needle size range: #12 through #23 Thread capacities: #46 through #138 Max SPI: ~5 Singer Make: Singer Model: 96k40 Max thickness: approx 1/4 inch Needle system: DBx1, DBx257 Needle size range: approx #10 through #20 Thread capacity: #69 and under Max SPI: 5

I appears to have a mechanism attached to the left side of the presser foot. That suggests that it is a Singer alternating foot system, probably with a spring loaded outer foot. I had a model 132K6 that had that drive system. It was mostly useless on polished belts; the stitch length varied all over the place as the foot slipped on the top grain and snapped forward prematurely.

I cannot see the presser foot/feet on that photo. Is there any chance you can get a close up frontal photo, or even a left front side shot?

When I had a Juki LU-563 (1988), I changed the pulley on the clutch motor to a 2" or smaller size, then got a shorter v-belt to get the adjuster back into the mid-range of the threaded bolt. That was before the time of the servo motors. I replaced my last clutch motor with a SewPro 500GR servo motor, which comes with a 2" pulley. I calculated the difference in belt lengths, minus one more inch for the new smaller motor body. I unbolted the original motor and wiring and dropped the SewPro onto the bolts (table upside down for easier install), installed the washers and nuts, clamped down the new wiring harness and switch box, up-righted the table, installed the new shorter v-belt, hooked it onto the machine, and have been sewing at controllable speeds ever since. This motor will slow down to one stitch every five seconds, and speed up to about 10 stitches per second, all by the position of the foot pedal. It has a knob on the back to limit the maximum speed. If I set it at half way, it can slow stitch about 4 stitches per minute, but it loses top speed, down to about 3 or 4 per second. The motor produces its maximum torque, even at slow speeds, when the control knob is set to full speed. It has built-in 3:1 gear reduction, to help it maintain power at all speeds. I bought my SewPro 500GR and shorter belt from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (866-362-7397).

The advantage of buying a second machine identical to your exiting model is they can be setup the same, sharing bobbins and needles. As for the stitch quality, the Campbell-Randall-Bosworth produces the nicest stitch. The Union Lockstitch produces the second nicest and the tightest stitch. The Union sells for less money, new and used than the Campbell. Both are sold and serviced in Yoakum, Texas. There is a learning curve on either of these machines. They are totally different than a closed eye needle machine.

If you would consider a Union Lockstitch machine, mine is for sale. It is a needle and awl machine.

Contact our dealers to see if any have used or traded in 441 models. If not, look in our sewing machinery for sale, in the Marketplace section of LWN. Members who buy longer arm machines frequently sell off shorter arm models at very reasonable prices.

To sew at least 1/2 inch you should restrict your searching to either an Adler 205-374, or a Juki 441, or a clone of either machine. The Adler sews up to 3/4 inch, as does the Juki TSC 441. Both can use a #27 needle and sew with up to #415 thread. These machines, that sew over 1/2 inch, use a system 794 or 7x3 needle. Adler 205's and Juki 441's usually sell used for at least $2500 (new, they go for about $6,000). However, you can buy a brand new Cowboy, or Cobra, or Techsew 441 clone for about $2500, plus or minus. These new 441 clones sew to 7/8 inch, with #415 bonded nylon or polyester thread. New leather stitchers are sold, warrantied and serviced by our member-dealers. You can get on the phone assistance after your purchase. Try that with a used machine bought on eBay. NOT. Every sewing machine seller on eBay adds the word "Leather" to the description. They take close-up photos of the machine sewing a piece or two of leather and make it look like it is very thick and is using extra heavy thread. A close-up lens distorts reality. Those machines are actually sewing about between 3/6 and 1/4 inch total, with #69 bonded nylon thread. It takes an incredible amount of presser foot pressure to hold down 1/2 inch of veg-tan or bridle leather, when you are sewing with a #26 or 27 needle and #346 or 415 thread. Most old or upholstery grade machines cannot exert the required amount of pressure to hold the leather down as the needle ascends. This causes skipped stitches and broken needles and thread.