Wizcrafts

I was wondering why you keep asking if the 30-70 looks like a Singer 29k172, after I posted a reply with a link to view the Adler on a blog. Did you see this text link: "But, I found a good photo of an Adler 30-70 on this blog "

If your 29k172 is a like Chevy 1500 truck is to a sedan, the Adler 30-70 is a like a 2500 model. Everything is beefed up. I have a Singer 29k172 and it is not the machine that my buddy's 30-70 is. The 30-70 has longer needles and sews thicker leather. It pulls a tighter stitch. It actually sews 3/8 inch, where our machine only clears about that much. The foot needs to lift off the top of the leather and move all the way forward and backward to get effective stitch length. The Singer 29k172 is more similar to an Adler 30-7. This is usually a treadle machine on a cast iron base and is not typically motorized. It sews about the same thickness as the 172. Other than that, they use the same bobbins and the presser feet are similar. I can use Singer patcher feet on the Adler 30-70 by enlarging the hole for the mounting screw. There is a little slop to deal with, because the Singer feet seem to have a wider inside mounting space than the Adler. Singer patchers use system 29x3 and 29x4 needles. Adlers use system 332 in the 30-7 and 332LG in the 30-70. If you see the machine at the auction and it resembles your Singer patcher, but is black, it is probably a 30-7. If it looks like the one in the photo I linked to and is gray, it is a 30-70. The 30-70 has a solid flywheel; no spokes. It weighs a gazillion pounds. The 30-70 uses a large bobbin and bobbin case. If the machine at the auction is a 30-70, complete on a power stand and turns easily by hand, and you win it for under $1800, pat yourself on the back.

Yes, it is engraved into a metal plate on the head, on the right side of the body. There is nothing else like the 30-70. If it says Adler on top and looks like the machine in the photo, it is a 30-70. Most of the Adler 30-70 machines are motorized with 1/2 hp clutch motors. These motors have adjustable freewheeling room when you slightly depress the floor pedal. Without this free play, you cannot hand wheel the machine at all. I would not use a patcher than can't be hand wheeled.

Try reducing the bobbin tension (spring and set screw), to get the knots higher up in the leather. Too much bobbin tension means you need more and more top tension to balance the knots. Added tension makes the needle work harder to pull the knots up. This forces you to crank down the pressure adjuster on top, to keep the leather from lifting with the needle and thread. Once you reduce the bobbin and possibly top tensions, reduce the presser foot pressure by turning the adjuster on top of the head counterclockwise. Stop before it pops out and see if there is enough pressure to hold down the leather as the needle ascends. Give the foot only as much spring pressure as it needs. This will minimize the puckering on the bottom. Do try going down one needle size, but make sure it is a type 794 S point. Finally, if none of the above helps, consider removing the feed dog and throat plate and installing just the plate with the long narrow slot. This converts the machine into a double feed machine. You will need to increase the stitch length setting a bit to compensate for the lack of feed dogs. But, the bottom may look a lot nicer (as long as you back off the top pressure spring controlling the feet).

I don't own the machine in question. But, I found a good photo of an Adler 30-70 on this blog

The best solutions for these heavy thread projects are either a 441 clone (e.g. Cowboy CB4500, Cobra Class 4, Techsew 5100), or a new modified Adler 205-370, or 205 clone (CB205), with a bolt-on flat table attachment. These machines have a 16.5" cylinder arm, take very large cylindrical bobbins and are built to handle very heavy thread, ranging up to #415. They all use system 7x3 (DYx3) and 794 needles and are able to sew into 7/8 inch of leather. I prefer using #277 thread in my CB4500. I use a #25 S point needle, but also have some diamond points to play with. #346 requires using a #26 needle and 415 needs a #27. Indispensable is a drop down roller edge guide, but a swing-away guide will do in a pinch. The next best option is a Union Lockstitch machine. This is a post bed, needle and awl machine, designed in the early 1900s and meant for sewing very heavy leather with very heavy thread. It sews with just about any size thread, if you have the correct needle for that thread (sizes up to #7). Awls are used between 1/2 to 1 size larger than the needle (sizes up to #8). There is a wax pot on top for use with liquid wax when sewing with linen thread. Originally built to sew 3/4 inch, many, myself included, have modified their ULS to sew 7/8 inch. I keep my ULS threaded with #277, using a #2 needle and a #2.5 or 3 awl, depending on the density of the work. To use #346 requires a 2.5 or #3 needle and a #3 or #3.5 awl. There are only a few machines that natively sew 1 inch. The Campbell High Lift is one. A Union Lockstitch can be further modified to sew 1 inch. A Luberto Classic can sew just over 1 inch. At this altitude it becomes extremely hard to hold down the leather as the needle or awl ascends. My Union Lockstitch has a coil spring that looks like it should be mounted on a small motorcycle's fork.

Unless you are comparing the big Adler 30-70 to the Singer 29k172, they are very similar in capabilities. The Adler 30-7 clears a little more thickness than the Singer 29Ks. Aside from that, they use the same bobbins and needles and deliver about the same maximum stitch length of no more than 5/inch, into 8 ounces of leather. The Adler 30-70 is a a whole nuther machine. It sews 3/8 inch, delivering a solid 5 stitches per inch, or longer, and uses system 332LG long needles. I sew on one every week at M&M Leather. It uses a 1/2 HP clutch motor.

I should clarify that when I sew fast on a 441, it is usually into about 1/8 to 3/16 inch of medium temper chrome tanned leather. Most of the fast jobs are large production runs of rifle slings and guitar straps (two parts each). The #138 thread is pre-lubricated and the needle is a Schmetz #23 S point. It is not unusual for me to have to sew 2 to 4 dozen for delivery the same day. On these large runs I usually have a spare bobbin loading in the bobbin winder as I sew. Downtime to reload is minimized this way. It is not unusual to see smoke coming from the needle as I sew these straps. I have never burned or broken the lubricated thread from speed sewing. I have broken it when I don't get it to release the tension disks all the way! I hate having to pull the top thread out of the take-up lever by hand, so I balance the tensions to allow the top disks to fully separate when the floor pedal is depressed. When I am sewing saddle bags, cases, holsters, or hand stamped straps, I slow down to about 3 or 4 stitches per second. Very thick projects are usually done at 1 or 2 stitches per second, but they aren't for production runs. If I have to do a production run into thick leather, I use my Union Lockstitch machine, flat out at 800 RPM. Art; I'd like to learn more about that machine. Is it still in production?

You'll need to back off the top and bobbin tensions and use a very small needle and thread, like a #18 needle with #69 thread, or a #19 needle with #92 thread. Other changes that might help feed the fur are to back off the presser foot adjuster until it almost pops out and possibly swap out the smooth feed dog for the one that has teeth, if you got that with the machine. Note: the feed dog screw is sometimes installed with Loctite Blue and may be very difficult to remove. In lieu of the tooth style feeder, you can just remove the feeder entirely, then install the throat plate with the narrow slot. The low presser tension and needle feed should suffice to feed fur, inside out. You will be sewing seams on the flesh sides, then folding them inside out when finished. If this doesn't play out as expected, look for a used but working fur sewing machine (with two cups).

Convenience

Gregg; I was just going to post about you being able to do this. Ya beat me to the punch Pilgrim.

The CB2500 sews up to 7/16", with bottom feed only. It is well capable of tensioning #346 thread, top and bottom. Using #277 would be perfectly fine for horse gear. The horse will not complain about tooth marks on the bottom of the headstall. However, if that becomes a problem, you can use a spoon to smooth them out. I would assume you will be using English Bridle Leather. It is very easy to smooth out tooth marks on either the grain or pasted flesh sides. OTOH, if you are going to be sewing right at 3/8 inch, or even higher, the Chandler and Consew will be maxed out at a dangerous height. You would be better off with a Juki LU-1508 NH, which has very high lift and uses system 190 Pfaff needles. Their bobbins hold about double the capacity of a standard industrial bobbin. This machine sews up to 7/16 inch with #207 thread. They can be had for about $2600, plus or minus, depending on the motor and shipping charges. If you begin sewing leather projects reaching or exceeding 1/2 inch, go back to the drawing board and look for an affordable 441 or Adler type machine, or a Union Lockstitch needle and awl machine. My ULS sews 7/8 inch, with any size thread.

That's easy: 800 RPM at the machine.That equals about 13 stitches per second. Keep it very well oiled if you sew at that speed on a regular basis. The same speed applies to the Cowboy 3500 and 5500, Cobra Class 3 and 4, and all other brands of 441 machines. Due to vibration issues, I would limit the top speed to 10 stitches per second on the big stitchers, or 600 RPM at the machine.

It needs to be re-dipped every so often, as the coating eventually starts to peel off with use. It is not a permanent application. Just buy smooth presser feet from a knowledgeable dealer. Everything I said in this topic is based on the understanding that you have a Singer 111w155 and not a Rex or some other brand that only comes with tooth feet and has double feed, not triple feed.

If your machine is indeed a Singer 111w155, I promise you that there are literally dozens of different presser foot sets available for it. It is the basis for all other upholstery grade walking foot machines, most of which use the exact same feet as the Singer 111w155. My walking foot machine uses the same type of feet as yours. I have at least a dozen different presser foot sets. The only ones I bought with teeth are for installing zippers. I have left toe, right toe, wide and narrow double toe, pipping sets of all sizes, edge guide sets and even a binder set, all without teeth on the bottom. You need to call Bob Kovar, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, at: 866-362-7397, ASAP and order you some various types of smooth presser feet, various needles and decent thread. The nerve of that dealer! Some people's children!

I only use smooth bottom presser feet when sewing leather. Why did you buy a set with teeth? The Singer 111w155 is a triple feed walking foot machine. It needs no help from teeth on top to feed the material.

Left twist, Barbour's Irish Linen, run through liquid wax, or bonded polyester work best. You can also use bonded nylon, if it isn't too springy. This means avoiding most black thread, as the dye hardens the thread. If you will be sticking to white, light brown and natural, any of those three types will work fine. FWIIW, I use bonded nylon most of the time in my Union Lockstitch, which is the younger brother of the Randall machines. Mine has a rotary shuttle, as opposed to your oscillating forward/backward motion shuttle.

Sheri; When I decided to get back into leather work and sewing, I started from scratch. The first few machines I get were home style old iron machines that were inadequate. I finally saved enough money to buy a really nice National walking foot machine from a local company. When I got the machine it was setup for vinyl upholstery, with a large motor pulley for high speed operation. It had an old 1/3 HP clutch motor. After fighting with it for a month I bought a SewPro 500GR from Bob Kovar (Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines). The original belt was too long, so I ordered a shorter belt from Bob. That motor is so easy to control at any speed that it makes my head spin thinking how it used to be. I set it to full speed on the knob, then use my toe position on the pedal for whatever speed I need, even down to 1 stitch every few seconds when sewing around tips of belts. On the straight-aways I floor it and sew at 10 stitches per second. The only changes I made to handle pulling heavy thread up into veg-tan leather was to replace the upper tension beehive spring with a heavier coil spring. The top pressure springs were already strong enough to hold down 3/8 inch of leather as the needle ascends. When I came across a job that exceeded the clearance of the feet, I routed out some iron on the back of the head and changed the needle system, and it now is capable of sewing almost 1/2 inch of leather, or webbing, depending on which presser feet I use. That machine was my only machine for one solid year. I have since acquired several more, including a Cowboy CB4500 cylinder arm heavy stitcher and a Union Lockstitch harness stitcher. Still, that flat bed National is the most versatile machine in my collection.

I set my motor at full speed; 3800 rpm. The servo motor is still controllable enough to slow down with my tippy toe, to 1 stitch per second. 3800 rpm at the motor, with a 2" pulley, divides by 4.5 via the large 9" pulley on the speed reducer. The small 2" pulley on the reducer feeding the large 8" pulley on the machine gives another 4:1 reduction, for a total of about 8.5:1 reduction. 3800/8.5 = 447 rpm. 447/60 = ~7 stitches per second, maximum. To sew at this speed I had to replace both belts with almost perfectly true belts that didn't have sideways motion. I also loosened the motor bolts and repositioned it for minimum side pull on the belt to the reducer. I also moved the reducer inward, toward the machine, to get the machine pulley directly inline with the small pulley on the reducer. Without those modifications the machine shook everything off the pedestal table at full speed. Now it just shakes a little. I purchased a 64 inch belt at the same time that I replaced the 39 and 58 inchers. By hooking the 64" belt to the middle pulley on the reducer I can sew at about 15 stitches per second. The shaking is only slightly worse than at 7.4 spi. The trueness of the belts and alignment between the motor, reducer and machine pulleys makes all the difference in the world, if you need to sew fast. Also, I tightened down every nut and bolt on the pedestal base and table.

Most upholsters use a flat bed walking foot machine, with reverse and a large bobbin, like the Consew 206RB-5 This type of machine definitely sews 3/8 inch of material, with up to #207 bonded thread. The needles available go up to a number 25, which allows you to sew with #207 thread top and bottom. The springs are heavy duty enough to properly tension #207 thread and to hold down the presser feet as the needle lifts with the bobbin thread, through 3/8 inch of webbing or leather. Lesser machines can't hold down such dense materials. The 206RB-5 has a really long maximum stitch length of about 3.5 per inch. The Chandler 406RB is the twin brother, bought out and now made by the same company, for a little cheaper price.

The Chandler 406 is a younger brother of the Consew 206 series. Both are made by the same company. The Chandler costs about $200 less than the Consew.

I think not. Ask Bob Kovar, he may know if that is doable.

On which machine? I read all the time about first time sewers buying a 441 clone and they learn to sew on the first day after setting it up. Others take longer to overcome newbie issues. The medium duty 227 type machines are equally easy to learn to operate and are more flexible due to the large number of different presser feet and attachments available for them, which are not made for the 441s.. With any of these machines the most important lesson is to firmly hold back both threads before you begin to stitch. Don't let go until you either cross back over the first stitch, or have moved on about 3 stitches. The second most important lesson is to learn where every oil hole is and keep oil in them at all times. The third most important lesson is to not sew your fingers! If you were asking about my Union Lockstitch Machine, I will gladly teach you how to operate and adjust it when you come to pick it up. A video camera that records audio would be a big help to you.

A standard walking foot machine that specifies a maximum foot lift of 9/16 inch cannot sew that much. You need at least 1/8 inch free space for the feet to alternate up and down, if not more. This limits the actual sewing thickness to 3/8 inch. Conversely, if the machine specifies it sews 3/8 to 7/16 inch, the foot lift figure will be at least 1/2 inch, to 5/8 inch. There are virtually no machines in the common market place that sew one inch. The only exceptions are the huge long arm flat bed machines used in the tent making, buffing wheel, and car wash cloth industries. Few of them can sew 1 inch. You need to go back to the drawing board and reduce the thickness by at least 1/4 inch. This would allow you to use a 441 clone, either flat bed or cylinder arm, which can sew a little over 3/4 inch. If you truly need to sew one solid inch, consider getting a Campbell High Lift needle and awl stitcher. It should only set you back about 7 grand, plus or minus.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that I got the 35 yards figure from a company selling pre-wound bobbin loads. The actually said 36 yards, but I allowed for loss from bobbin winder misalignment. Your bobbin loads could be higher or lower, depending on how perfectly the bobbin winder lays the threads into the bobbin core.