Ellen

It's a matter of habit, just as language you use and why you are using it. I'm metric grown and educated, it was very difficult to use imperial system with 8 as a base, not 10. ...But everything is possible. Still prefer metric (SI - System International, not so international as they told us), it's much easier, with no room for mistake.

While I don't know about books on bag making, other than Valery Michaels' and Al Stolhman', it seems that you can make own pattern easily after looking at the photo of the item, and customize it. Standard measurements for such bags could be found on mass-produced bag websites and here at bag makers forum. What may help to imitate thickness of leather while assembling parts of pattern together, using the crafts foam sheets from dollar store, craft supply or discount department store. Two will come close to the thickness of the thick leather. Just an idea.

Thank you, Art. I'll keep in mind advice on Matt for a future, but airbrushing is not for my conditions (living room) and other sides were taking manual dyeing very well. As I understand now, most of you are not making smooth vegtan things on regular basis for a reason. I have to learn to work with leather what comes to me, and stop trying do make the smooth and even product. Sigh. Thank you all, I appreciate your help. I learned my lesson.

Thank you!

Wicket and Craig, tooling leather, best quality. The distributor really did his best this time: cleanest leather I've ever seen. Usually even on best quality leather there were uneven surface and print marks (pulling from the shelf or something like this). This one forms and cuts beautifully, only when you touch it with wet dye or finish it was momentarily sucked down. No chance on even application, plus colors distortion. I even tried apply neatsfoot oil before dyeing, with overnight drying, it didn't help. Art, I would like not to be picky about surface of leather, but there is no place in everyday life for tooled leather, not everybody likes it, and not everybody is ready to pay for it. But Wicket & Craig best tooling leather price is quite acceptable, special production cost is beyond my means. I just wonder how Valery Michaels (UK, vegtan bag maker) managed to get so clean and even leather as on photos in her book.

Just curious, how to protect vertically mounted motor from leather dust during sanding? And we have similar mini-lathe here, only different brand. Ryobi grinders in HD. Never have seen motor shops though, but maybe it will be not necessary. I read Bob Park's burnishing edges tutorial, including eBay burnisher results photos, thank you for the pointing me in the right direction. He favors wax finish, and I thought that this is the only option for mechanized burnishing. Thank you all, I appreciate your help . P.S. If you will have time, post, please, what compound are you using during burnishing edges: wax, gum tragacanth or something else? Especially at high grinder speeds. What final finish do you apply over it (Resolene?) and how (air brush, sponge, brush?)? To get a good result in reasonable time.

Excellent! Thank you all very much for the help. Some clarification needed: What do you use for burnishing, wax or something else? Chris: I'll order from you, this is a fastest solution for me at the moment. I assume this will be USPS shipping? This is very good for me. Are you sure that listed sum is enough for across the continent? Radar67: What lath do you have? With variable speed, 500 - 3500 rpm? They are available in hardware store around the corner. My main concern was possible noise of speed reductors, if they are there. Ferg: Do you know, by any chance, where the washing machine motors could be bought? In repair stores they seems sell only machines, not parts. Rick: What could be an alternative to using wax in mechanized burnishing? EBay burnisher seems uses wax too. For manual work I can use Gum Tragacanth, but will it work or not with a burnisher? K-Man: What do you use for burnishing at 3600 rpm? Is it possible to order somewhere attachment to the grinder like you have? Mike: Good idea, thanks.

Thank you all, may be somebody else chime in. The leather thickness I'm using is 6-7 oz, not more common 5-6, or 7-8 oz. I tried Siegel too, and still have what they sent me, can't use it. For heavy tooling and flat pieces it may be usable, but not for wet formed clean work. Every single time (few at all, these are costly mistakes) online ordering results unsatisfactory leather. The only alternative, one of distributors, sends what supposed to be W&C, but some of it was either too thin, or with too many defects, or part of the side was carton-like leather with separating layers. What was good, the moldability and eveness of dye, perfect. But the last, best quality, perfect looking leather behaves like blotting paper, dyeing and finish are very uneven. Dyeing by black F's Pro-Oil dye results greyish color, to get black color have to use much more dye and dye twice. Same with other colors. Without reliable supply I can do nothing. And losing two hundred dollars now and then, on no good leather, is heavy on a wallet. Tandy's leather wet forms not that good. Again, for Western floral carving and tooling in Al Stohlman style, it may be just what they need.

I'm looking for a better vegtan leather supplier, how good is yours? Looking for: Mail order, not UPS shipping, uncommon thickness, consistent leather properties: clean surface and the back (for smooth not tooled things), takes dyes and finishes the same way (not varies drastically hide from hide, and black dye colors it in black, not grey), not dark, bruised, pressure marks all over, and it shouldn't smell. My last one has a properties of a blotting paper, even premium quality, supposedly from the same supplier. Did the W&C changes the tanning process recently, or my distributor quietly sends me unasked for brand? The previous, black drum dyed vegtan, sent directly from a reputable tannery in US, had a fish smell. Is there any chance to get repeatedly a good quality leather by mail order? I'm in Canada, by the way

I'm looking for a way for finishing vegtan edges faster and easier. I have read about Weaver's edge burnisher (can't: wholesale only, and $600+) and eBay edge burnisher (cheaper, that's good, not sure how quiet it is and resulting quality). Or, if DIY could be faster (from HD), cheaper and better, I'm ready for this too. Can you advise on: - is there another ready made, quiet, not too expensive, retail device, - quietness of eBay edge burnisher, in the living room, not a shop, - what quiet motor of acceptable RPM is readily available, and where. (Drill press is noisy and a head rotation is not even, slightly off center, I have it. Variable speed mini-lathe?). - what else is needed to attach to the motor (chuck, as on drill press?), where to get this, - what slicking and burnishing heads are you using? I'm working at home in the city, it has to be quieter than a belt sander, drill press is borderline. And much cheaper than Weaver's burnisher. Any chances for find or make this? Thank you.

Eastern Canada leatherworkers, where do you order your best vegtan (russet, drum dyed, or English briddle)? Any weight (oz) you require, shipped to you, when you can be sure in quality and consistent thickness of the leather they send to you. I know Tandy (and looking for something much better), Tony (best, comparing to Tandy), and heard about Atlantic Canada supplier that lists nothing at their website. Anything better? Also, Tandy no longer carries Fiebing's Pro-Oil dyes beyond few basic colors, where to get them? And source for a waxed brown thread, not as dark as Tandy's Tejas threads, thicker than Tejas nylon and much thinner than Tejas polyester thread. Do you know if anyone carries Angelicus dyes in Canada? Thanks.

Still Wickett & Craig, and not Tandy. I have heard good things about Springfield Leather, but don't know what they have. It would be good if W&C had a distributor in your area, so you could come in person there and choose the leather you want. Mine W&C drum dyed black leather was softer than regular vegtan ("Tooling/Holster/Carving" russet leather), feels like well oiled leather, but after finishing takes fingernail impressions easier than regular vegtan. Their English Briddle was stiffer, waxer feel, looks much better than drum dyed. It could be wet formed to conform shape you need, with less details than regular vegtan, and this will require more work. Regular vegtan for excellent results requires smelly Fiebing's Pro-Oil dyes, Angelicus acrylics could be an option.

I'm looking for the same information as you do, and this is what I found so far: - Satin Shene gives more uniform, almost matte finish, it could be mixed with Super Shene to reach desired level of shinyness. - Acrylic finishes could be buffed to a nice glow, although I don't see much difference by myself. - After Super Shene or Resolene could be applied Kiwi neutral shoe polish, for more soft feel on touch, but not beeswax. - Try Fiebing's Leather Balm with Atom Wax instead of Carnauba, softer feel. It's quite neutral and mellow, can be buffed to desired level of shinyness. Only I always used it without any other finish, and it is not as good as acrylics as a finish by itself. And Tandy stopped selling it, at least in my area. If antiquing gel you use is acrylic based, it shouldn't work over wax or shoe polish, as any other acrylic.

Aren't Angelicus dyes acrylic? Fiebing's Pro-Oil is spirit based, and used for everything leather with very good results. It's not shiny by itself, if you use Satin Shene as a finish it will be not glossy. When dyeing a flesh side, go along the fibers, not against them. Or spray. Flesh side better to seal with Resolene. Bag Cote is much weaker sealer than acrylics (Resolene, Angelicus, Supe[ and Satin Shene). If you have it, finish a scrap pieces of leather with Bag Cote and, another, with any acrylic finish. Let it dry. Then drop or spay some water on them and see results by yourself. Edge should be well sealed anyway, or it will stain the wearer. Gum Tracagant with wet slicking but without burnishing allows you to keep edge smooth but not glossy. Finish it with acrylic anyway.

Thin leather, 2-3 oz, is wet formed by fingers (see maskmaking forum here or youtube), medium, 6-7 oz, will require some modeling tools and quite a pressure to make it conform the shape, thick, 8 oz or more, for complicated shapes or deep shapes is even nailed to wooden form and hammered to fill the crevices (some Venetian masks from thick leather). In your case, wearing collar after leather starts look light, like dry leather, but still be damp, should shorten period of wearing it and still should give desired results.Help to form it with hands. You can remove it for some time, let it dry a little, then wear again. As for dyes, I would recommend Fiebing's Pro-Oil dyes, excellent results, no staining after finishing with Super Shene or Satin Shene on outside and Resolene on inside. Or spray-on acrylic paint using Prevail unit from Tandy, if you haven't airbrushing equipment. It should be either acrylic leather dye or liquid artist paint with airbrush medium. Hand dyeing with large synthetic brush or sponge will also work, but coat may be less even. All 3 methods - airbrushing (spraying), brushing or sponging with small piece of sponge - will allow you to get into the crevices. If spaying finish, mere than one coat will be required for a good protection. If glossy finish is no onjection, Resolene diluted with water, 50-75% of Resolene, would be better. Do not overcoat, build layers slowly, because if apply too much - it will become tacky and thing will be not usable. If paint will be black, then black Resolene, it's less tacky. Hope that helps.

Glazed pigskin is chrome tanned, as far as I know. Unless it was clearly described as vegtan by tannery. I have a piece of both from Tandy, vegtan and glazed pigskin, they are different. But it's good that it was able to conform molded shape without wrinkles.

Hi, particle. Not a case maker, I came here with the same intentions as you, and here are the main drawbacks that I can see. Information comes from posts at this forum: 1. It takes almost the whole side for one big bag, $200 or so. 2. It will require way better leather stiching machine than Tippman Boss. Manual stitching like shown in Valerie Michaels book is possible, but it takes more time and one mistake can affect perfect look of the seam. 3. Hardware should be preferably better than plated one from Tandy. Finding source is a problem. 4. Time could be a couple of weeks. Just making a case can take less, but small mistake can ruin everything, and high price of the luxury goods includes all humanly possible attention to details with all extra time necessary. 5. It wasn't used, but probably worth it, motorized edge burnisher from Waiver ( http://leatherworker...showtopic=16609 ). 6. Now main drawback as I see it now: taking payment. If some troubled soul uses stolen credit card, or claims to Paypal that goods were not received, and you have to return payment, well... this means loss at least of the cost of the side, $200, plus time and effort spent. So high price requires ability to take credit cards payments, maybe even merchant account, maybe you already have it. 7. And a very time consuming problem at beginning: making your own design, marketing strategy, and perfecting them. Guys here say that one may end up with closet full of cases, because next is more perfect than previous. And each bag means one side... Plus time and work Positive sides: 1. It's doable. You already have experience with vegtan, and can name and use techniques used in project you see. Stohlman and Valery Michaels books provide enough insiders view on construction details to start. Inspirational photos you already have seen at this forum, best of the best. Cheers!

Hello, I'm not a mask maker, just curious: 1. What kind of finishes are good enough for contact with skin: Resolene, Super Shene? Is back side dyed too, or it should be left without dye at all? 2. What is better: Fiebing's spirit dyes or acrylic dyes for leather? 3. If Angelicus acrylic dyes are not available (shipping cost bites), is art quality acrylic paint an acceptable substitute? What medium is flexible enough for leather for use with sponge applicator, aerosol medium? Thank you, I appreciate your input.

I would like some input on usability of English Bridle Leather, say, for a handbag or briefcase. I tried this leather, but it seems to me that if it finished by common ways (Resolene, or Super Shene, or Tan Cote) it too easily takes fingerntail prints, what is not desirable for a bag that takes a lot of use and abuse. From what I read, this leather is considered one of the best, if not best, for handbags, but I have by doubts after personal encounter. Maybe if requires different finish, or additional treatment from tannery (which one then?). Any insights will be appreciated. My experience is limited to russet and drum dyed vegtan. Thank you.

I can't say about thin chrome tanned leather - it could be folded and sewn, but the natural tanned cowhide you were talking about could be dyed. The best result gives Fiebing's Pro Oil line of dyes with Super Shene (glossy), Satin Shene (sating finish) on outside and Resolene on inside. Details you can find here by search on finishing leather belts inside, wrist watch bands, dog collars. I don't do these items, sorry. Yellow color will darken with time when leather is exposed to the sun, and white color on leather is very tricky to get. All kinds of leather could be bought at Tandy stores (TandyLeatherFactory) all small pieces on online auction. Hope that helps.

I'm asking about leather cases in his 3 volume set sold by Tandy. Light colored leather, but it looks not as raw as even Super Shene finished not dyed veg tan. Peter Main website shows a lot of light colored too. Do you know what it was? No dye and some kind of finish? Thanks.

Dan, I had seen the photo of a small Japanese leather shop. Two medium sized tables, aquarium, and above them medium sized precut pieces of leather are hung, just like clothes in the closet, tightly one next to another. Pity that I didn't pay attention then to the type of a hanger, something applying even pressure along all side of a leather piece. Could be interesting, but unlikely readily available here. Just a thought.

It's not even close to even a minimal salary, so it still hobby Maybe if I figure out how to make a functional workshop in my conditions and what else could be made with less dyeing, without hammering and manual molding of heavyweight leather, then I'll get more chances. I'm in half-size row house (smallest possible), and asked about apartments because my conditions are much closer to them than to detached house in suburbs or farm . I have damp-ish basement, so far riveting and punching is done there, but still so thin walls! I can't pay for anything else right now, and unlikely storage units have heating, but at least now I could know what could be possible in future, thanks!

What kind of clamps are you using for gluing of the small items? Bull-dog clips covered with suede as Valerie Michaels does, hardware store plastic clamps and paper towels as I do, or something else? Where do you store them within easy reach? Clipping them in line on the wall in front of you, or in drawers? For gluing several items at time it takes 2 drawers for me, and plus specialized clamps, for larger items and remote areas on the item (long nosed clamps). Major space-eaters. Better ideas? Thanks.

Just curious is it viable to make a setup for producing things from fine chrome leather, like women's belts, bags, purses. At home. Do that items have chance to be sold, or from designers only? Or no competition with China made items, at their prices? Could be setup kept as simple as for vegetable tanned leather? With hand stitching, with Leather Weld kind of white glue, not smelly contact cement, no hot press, or custom made uncommon hardware. I understand that this is completely new setup comparing to low tech vegtan work shop at home. Is it possible to set it at comparable prices, and is it worth the troubles? Have you tried or considered it? Thanks.