olliesrevenge

I'm gonna try that. Edging belt loop slots is one of my achilles heels. I'm guessing your #2 edger is the flat profile and not the concave? I ground down the toes on one of my tools and still had issues. On a related side note, does anyone know a good source for jewelers files to sharpen these things? Or have any good edge beveler sharpening tricks?

Although it's not quite the size of an N frame S&W, I sometimes carry a Glock 20, 10mm in a high riding OWB pancake I made myself, concealed under a loose shirt or vest. Here are my thoughts on high ride OWB's When you put the pistol's center of gravity (COG) above the beltline, there are two things that can work to make it a stable carry system. 1) having a decent portion of the barrel end below the belt, to act as a bottom lever arm below the belt, to offset the lateral tipping action the pistol is prone to because the COG is above the beltline.(See attached pic) 2) The rigidity of the belt and holster are such that they can support the pistol in the absence of a bottom "lever arm". From what I see in GreginTenn's pic, there is a good 3" of barrel poking out below the belt line (Nice holster BTW Greg), to act as an offsetting lever arm to prevent the top end from tipping out. IMO this enables that holster to work in spite of the fact that he appears to be wearing it with a single thickness belt. If you want to go higher (reducing the size of the bottom lever arm) you have to resort to belt & holster rigidity to pick up the slack. IMO, the following are your remaining options... -Use a very heavy double thickness belt, maybe even kydex reinforced. (Note: IMO kydex reinforced belts are all about creating resistance to the "lateral tipping action", & not much else) -Use heavy leather for the holster, IMO using double layer lined construction increases rigidity. - Use a pancake design, the extra width of the belt slots (as opposed to an Avenger style) resists the lateral tipping action. - Use a pancake design with an additional tunnel belt loop sewn right where the gun is carried. - Ensure the belt loops are snug to the belt. - Increasing the rear muzzle rake will also help you get the muzzle higher for a given COG location, if you can live with the angle. There are probably others. My .02 HighRide.bmp

Have any of you Boss users tried the 'Tippmann Lubricant Box' , w/ their silicone thread lubricant? I haven't, I'm just curious if it improves stitch quality and/or helps prevent dye transfer to the thread.

Denim... I would not have thought of that. Thank you sir! Nice looking edges BTW, that is exactly what I'm after.

I hope I don't get branded as a heretic for asking this on a leather forum, but I know some of you pro holster makers use kydex in some of your designs. How do you achieve that nice smooth, rounded, & "burnished" looking edge on Kydex that I see on some of the stuff I've bought from the pro's My brainstorm is to take a dowel with a concave groove cut around it (like for leather burnishing), but somehow attach fine sandpaper into the groove, and then spin it on a drill press. I can't figure out how to glue sandpaper into a circumferential groove without it getting boogered up though.

I've had a more difficult time making a mag carrier that I'm really happy with than I've had with holsters. I like 'em narrow, compact, and as high riding as possible, and that has proved to be challenging because it's on a small scale and attention to detail is more critical. This latest one is the closest I've come to "passable" so far.

Mandrels... I'm sure alot of leatherworkers use them, but being a total noob I was oblivious until I got the idea from one of Lobo's posts, where he posted pic's of his. I found this at Home Depot ... http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1/Ntk-All/Ntt-poplar%2Bwood/h_d2/Navigation?langId=-1&storeId=10051&Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&catalogId=10053&merchRule=true&catStyle=ShowProducts ...except in a 1/4" x 1 1/2" size that is dead nuts identical to the profile of a good gun belt. I sanded the edges round and tapered the ends a bit and it was good to go. I haven't thought about swelling shrinkage though, I guess I'll keep an eye out for that.

Wait a minute, 5 gal buckets really aren't that big around. If you really want to pick a fight tell her you formed it around a 55 gallon drum.

I like how you think. The 5 gallon bucket method is how I have formed & dried almost all of my holsters. I used to think that drying & hardening them while strapped to a curve would be crucial for a good fit, but after some experimentation I found that drying them 'on the flat ' using a straight wooden mandrel through the belt slots is just about as well. For me it's more about leaving it in a convenient position to dry. My steps currently go like this. Dye pieces Assemble & sew wet mold use a (preferably old) belt to strap it to a 5 gallon bucket (not too tightly) Position a small space heater so that it blows warm air on the piece for about 40 minutes. Unbelt it from the bucket and hang the holster in front of the space heater so that the backside gets some heat for another 30 minutes or so. Once I build a drying cabinet as described in a recent post, I'll stop w/ the 5 gallon bucket method and go to wooden mandrels on the flat. Below is a recent pic of a holster I built that was dried on a 5 gallon bucket. About your question of using rubber cement to glue the inner piece of leather to the 5 gal. bucket and then forming the outer piece on over the gun.... If I understand correctly, what you are after is having the inner leather relatively flat (albeit, on a curve), and the outer leather doing all the molding around the gun. I haven't done this with a holster yet, but try placing your gun / mold on a piece of wood (I've used a section of 2x12)) , then take your cased (wet) outer leather piece and mold / wetform it over the top of the gun, & secure it down w/ small tacks positioned exactly along where the stitchline will be (easier said than done!). Let 'er dry and then assemble and sew your holster.

The kydex idea seems like an awful lot of work to achieve a solution that can be reached via easier methods. I do like the concept of having a pattern complete with stitch line & belt slot locations though, although I have yet to create one because I'm still trying new things all the time. I just use the formula that I read on the forums here, add 1/2 the width of the gun + the thickness of the leather you're using. Practically speaking, the thickness difference between, say, 7 and 9 oz leather amounts to splitting hairs when positioning the stitch line (IMO). Using dial calipers I have found a pretty decent variance in thickness even across a single shoulder, so I usually just round up & add 1/8" to 3/16" & call it good. I realize that 3/16" equals 12 oz leather but I haven't found it makes a huge difference, of course I make mostly Glock holsters, & Glocks are thick and blocky. I laid a Glock on a piece of poster board and drew the complete outline of the gun, then drew the stitch lines the desired distance away from the outline, then cut it out. The result is a stitch line template. The top of the standard Glock slide is 1" thick so the front stitch is 5/8" to 11/16" from the outline of the slide. On the trigger guard side I initially tried to get technical and bring the stitch line a bit closer in that area, since the Glock trigger guard is "only" 5/8" thick ( half would be 5/16th), but I found that even if I didn't do that it was nice to have a bit of extra material there anyway because I'd be depressing the leather into the trigger guard area when wet molding. I think my Glock stitch template is about 1/2" from the gun outline through the entire trigger guard / dust cover area. 1911's are a different story, as they have a relatively thin trigger guard, so I did bring it in a bit on the one 1911 holster I made. After I get a holster stitched up, before wet molding & while it's still flat, I throw it into my scanner/printer and make a copy of it. The copy gives you a record of all the details so you can make small tweaks the next time you build that same holster.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who takes pleasure in this. I work in Seattle, a longtime bastion of liberalism. One morning I got off work and decided to grab an Americano at the Starbucks in Seattle's Greenlake neighborhood (an ultra-liberal enclave within Seattle). I was sporting a black leather belt case I had just made for my new iPhone4, and while waiting in line a nice looking liberal yuppie gal commented on it. I told her that I made it myself and she asked if I made alot of them. I replied, "No, this is the only one, I mostly make handgun holsters for myself and for friends that carry concealed and do alot of shooting". The look that came came over her face was a sight to behold, it was as if I had just told her that I harpoon dolphins for fun and sport. The conversation (from her end at least) became a bit awkward from that point. The real kicker was when I got to the front to order. There was some type of "support the troops" donation box on the counter (which was strange given the location, go figure), and the barista running the reqister asked me if I'd like to give some money to it. My deadpan reply, with a completely straight face was, "I already give alot through the 'Adopt A Sniper' program. I pledged to give $20 every time my sniper gets a confirmed kill and it's getting a bit expensive!" The silence was deafening. What is really interesting though, is that for every story like the one above, I have one where the reception was agreeable. When I went through my "political awakening", and made the shift from conservative to libertarian, I found out I had some (albeit small) common ground with liberals. One time I walked into a liberal yuppie health supplement store and said, " I'm tired of being systematically poisoned by military industrial complex corporations, do you have any supplements I can take to detoxify myself?" In the course of the interesting conversation that followed, I wound up telling the liberal gal who owned the store that I made leather holsters, was a competitive shooter, and even owned several evil looking military style assault rifles. She then confided that she and her husband were beginner "preppers" and wanted my opinion on what type of rifle to buy. My advice of course was a military style .308 battle rifle (a la, FN Fal, Cetme, or M1A), or in lieu of that a good 5.56 M4'gery. The amazing part was that she actually wrote this information down. Our world is getting stranger by the day.

I'm really glad I read this thread. I have made a bunch of holsters so far, and for some reason I always felt like I should be using the $70 damascus head knife I bought from Tandy. This has been a real pain, mostly because I'm not the best blade sharpener, and so I have always dreaded the task of "cutting out". On a recent holster I combined these two pieces of advice... ... and holy smokes, life just got easier. I have tried using titanium blades in my drywall knife before but it never occurred to me to try to make razor blades sharper. A few passes on the rosin board made a huge difference though. Thanks!

Robert - If there is a general pattern in existence for anything but single action revolvers (or 1911 style auto's in a SA style), I have yet to see it. I have found that even between similarly sized handguns (say a G19 & CZ-75B) there are little tweaks to be done to be done to get things to fit right, like for example, getting the trigger guard completely covered in a manner that looks right to my eye. I'm not trying to be a jerky "Use the Search!" kind of guy, but I submit to you that if you sit down with a set of french curves and create your own pattern, the process will be much more rewarding. Once you have done it once you will realize that it definitely "ain't rocket surgery", but is actually really easy. Having said all that, if you are looking for some "artistic inspiration" you will find that many holster makers publish web images of their holsters in a large enough format so that, when printed, they are nearly actual size. Here are a few examples, (there are many, many more out there). http://www.brigadegu..._0186-large.jpg http://i165.photobuc...og/AWoodG17.jpg http://www.lobogunle...nhanced_avenger Another technique for finding "artistic inspiration" is to right click on the image itself, and then click "Save Image As". This will let you open the image from your machine using software of your choice, and then enlarge the image to actual size and print it. For an Avenger style holster, you would then simply have to create a mirror image of the print to create a pattern for your pistol. You could get really geeky and do this in Photoshop if you wanted to, but IMO that would be like using a .338 Lapua Mag to hunt prairie dogs, over the top overkill . This post (if you haven't already seen it) explains this process pretty well... http://leatherworker...topic=5696&st=0 I do it a little differently than described there though. I use vellum paper, and create the mirror image by folding the paper in half along the holsters' leading folded edge. Check out this video (If you haven't already). As far as I know it is the only free video of it's type on the web. It shows (among other things) Mr Adams tracing out his pattern onto the leather, and you can get a really good view of what a good Avenger pattern will look like. http://www.adamsleat.../how-s-it-made/ Take care, Lance

I like the Double Avenger alot. I missed the unique design the 1st time I blew through looking at your pics. At first I thought it was simply a couple of reinforcement pieces sewed on the front and back. After taking a close look, I saw what is really going on. Very cool, and as far as I know, totally original (I have never seen anything like it, and I have looked at alot of holsters). I'll bet it prevents collapse of the holster very effectively (am I right?), probably even better than the Milt Sparks VM2 method of using an upper wraparound reinforcement piece. Thanks for sharing this, would you mind if I gave this IWB idea a try? Lance

Duracoat Peel & Spray templates are available at this site... http://lauerweaponry.com/item-detail-colorchoice.cfm?category=240&colortype=pattern&CFID=46461094&CFTOKEN=91562758 ... obviously you wouldn't want to use Duracoat firearms finish on the leather, but I suppose you could try airbrushing the camo colors on over the template. I have never tried it and don't know if it would bleed under the template. Some of the patterns have big individual colored areas (ie, woodland), but a finer pattern like digital camo might work on a belt and sheath. FWIW, thats my idea...

Garange, I'm guessing it's likely you have already checked out this thread... http://leatherworker...opic=23140&st=0 .. but if not, it's worth reading, alot of opinions either way. I went with a used Tippmann Boss, as I only build (on average) about 2 -3 holsters per day when I'm in the swing of things. IMO, unless you are really producing alot of holsters (or your wallet is really fat and don't mind the expense of a Cobra), a Boss is a smart way to go. Mine works as advertised here (meaning it is somewhat touchy about tension and getting the backside stitching to look just right) but even w/ the minor issues it saves such a huge amount of time over hand sewing that the "weak link" in my production (time wise) is no longer the sewing. Sewing is now the easy part. having said all that, after looking into it, if I ever have to build ten holsters per day I'd probably buy a Cobra 4 (especially after reading the testimony of how easily it sets up with regard to tension, etc) . Why 4 and not 3? Because the increased throat depth would enable me to more easily sew big stuff if I chose to, and IMO the extra $300 is negligible when you're already shelling out a couple grand. I run two layers of Gorilla tape over the needle plate of my Boss and it solves the issue of the screw that particle spoke of. Tippmann recommends this for sewing thin and furry materials, but I found it works well all the time. I bought mine used from someone here on these forums for 1K. It sewed fine when I got it, but I disassembled it and cleaned it and used a product called GunButter to lube it with. I have no financial affiliation, but this high speed stuff is slick and it stays where you put it. I noticed such a difference with the way my AR's and my Production division Glock run on it I used the Trigger and Locking Lug grease to run in most of the gears and moving parts. It runs real smooth now . The only part you don't want to use gun oil or grease on is the bobbin shuttle, as it will get the thread oily (yeah, I coulda' thought that through better before learning that). Now I run Kano Kroil in the bobbin raceway. 3 in 1 would obviously work too, but I have an incessant desire to tinker with things to try to get them to work better. Have fun spending your money!

Comptac makes a good one... http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=81 I have seen other holster makers use it as well. Kydex works well too, and has the advantage that you can make your own. Kydex can break if flexed too far beyond it's molded shape, though if it's not abused this will likely never be a problem. Another option is to sandwich the metal type belt clips between two layers of leather of approx belt width, then connect it only near the bottom of the holster . If you study the construction of this holster... http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=24454 ... you'll get the idea.

The only time I used cocobolo was at the Tandy class. The manager of the store had two tools - One was shaped like a marker pen, cylindrical, with one end rounded and one end tapered down w/ a smaller rounded tip. The other tool was of a similar theme (with one end rounded and one end tapered down w/ a smaller rounded tip), but it was slightly larger and had a flat profile to it. They were both sanded to a very fine polish. After the class I went to my local hardwood lumber store and bought a 1 1/2 x 3 size stick of cocobolo about 3ft long for $20. I have yet to get around to cutting it down to make some rub sticks out of it. One of these days!

I like your work alot dude! That mag + light holder is real nice, and carries the light the right way (lamp end down) so it's ready to use when you pull it out. Have you ever checked out Graham Combat rings? They made sense to me when I first saw them at a class put on by the guy who invented the simple little things - they let you use a light with a two handed hold on the pistol. Check em out ( I was at the class standing uprange when this video was taken)... I have no financial interest - just thought I'd share. Your detail boning looks pretty good to me. I am still getting my detail boning skill dialed in, but I have learned a few things... I first used a cocobolo rub stick for detail work at my local Tandy class, and I realized cocobolo is the way to go. The oily nature of cocobolo makes it glide over wet leather really easily and IMO makes a huge difference. I also have learned that the type of leather makes a huge difference in ease of detailing - Herman Oak seems to be more supple and easier to work with than any other kind that I have tried. I know you said you used HO leather - have you noticed this too? I also have found that the little Crafttool modeling tool that looks like a tiny spoon is really useful in creating the kind of sharp impressions from one "elevation" of leather to another. What detail tools are you using?

I have never worn a holster exactly like the one pictured, but for me the lobe spreads out the force of the lump created by the gun when worn IWB. I can't wear an IWB like a Summer Special, because it has no "lobes" and it feels like a rock under my belt. When I wear an IWB holster like a Monica Kuehn Bodhi, or a Brigade M12 Parma, the huge lobes on either side of the gun act to spread out the "lump" - like stuffing a rag on either side of the "rock" under my belt. I talked to my chiropractor about this and he agreed - lobes are good, and for some of us, the bigger the better.

http://www.ocregiste...un-holster.html Thanks for the links. This particular story is strange on so many levels: A (then) 35 year old "retired" LAPD officer (??), sues Glock, the holster maker and the retail store that sold him the holster, because he failed to keep "his service-revolver, a Glock 21" out of his toddlers hands. Wow. It sounds like he was shot in the back through the seat of his Ford Ranger, maybe he should have sued Ford too for failing to design a seat that would stop bullets? I think if I ever wind up selling a holster I'll include a copy of the 4 rules of gun safety as taught by Jeff Cooper at Gunsite - RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT. It might also be worthwhile to include a warning that the user should ensure that nothing other than the gun enters the holster whenever re-holstering, especially with Glocks, M&Ps, DA revolvers, or any other pistol that can be fired without manipulating some type of external safety... "...When he holstered his weapon the draw string attachment (from his jacket) became lodged in [the] trigger guard. This deputy then went some period of time and went home. When he removed the paddle holster the draw string pulled tight and discharged the weapon with the firearm in the holster. The deputy was shot in the outer thigh and buttocks..." jacket drawstring ND This same type of "jacket drawstring" Negligent Discharge happened to a Seattle Police officer (they carry Glock 22s) several years ago, but I can't find a link.

There is a reason for the low cut front, and I used to think it really mattered, but now I'm not so sure. The theory is that having the low front allows the muzzle of the pistol to clear leather faster, thus resulting in a faster draw. I don't necessarily buy it because IMO, a good draw should result in the pistol being lifted straight up and out of the holster, up toward the armpit area, and then being pushed out into a firing position. If you looked at it in slow motion it would look like an arc, rather than a straight line, from holster to firing grip, and so I'm not sure an extra inch in the front will make a difference. There are those who would argue that it might make a difference in a type of draw, where you fire from the hip as soon as the gun clears the holster. But even then I would be willing to bet that if you took a couple good shooters out to the range with a shot timer, and compared draw times between a high & low cut front holster, you'd find any difference to be essentially splitting hairs. Of course Todd Jarret or Jerry Miculek might disagree with me, who knows.So why do I go with the Lobo style low front cut, rather than the higher Particle style? Mostly just style preference, and it doesn't seem to affect retention either way. Thanks for looking.

Right on, this is a fairly high holster for a short barreled pistol like the 26. You've brought up an interesting holster design issue. IMO the problem for pistols like the G26 is two fold: 1) When the pistol is oriented so that it feels high enough for a good draw, its center of gravity is well above the belt 2) There is almost no barrel length extending below the belt to act as an opposing lever below the "fulcrum" (the belt) to prevent the gun from tipping out laterally. I agree that it is all about having a heavy gunbelt. My well broken in Galco gunbelt doesn't work well with this holster, but my brand new 1/4" thick "stiff as a board" custom belt works great. IMO it also helps to mold the holster to the exact dimensions of the belt to be used, so there is no play at all between holster and belt. If I can muster up even more nerve I may try something like this... http://garritysgunle...AC-Glock-23.jpg I haven't even thought of trying exotics yet, but I am pretty good at being humbled! Maybe I should try it. If you sent me something I'd almost feel obligated to send something in return, maybe I could use my G20 to mold a holster for that G30 of yours, I just can't guarantee it would be pretty... I'm so glad I bought that machine from you. It's nice to be able to measure holster making time in hours rather than days. I'm still working on getting the look of the backside dialed in, but I'll keep it lubed up and running. Thanks Rick

Thanks for the kind words Max. My personal preference toward detail boning is that I could take it or leave it. I guess the only reason I want to get good at it is to be able to sell holsters at some time in the future. The holster being cut low in the front doesn't seem to affect the 'hold' on the gun too much. If I put the gun in the holster and lightly shake it upside down, it will hold nicely without slipping. I have seen it written that "most of the retention comes from the trigger guard area", and In my limited holster making experience, I have found that to be true. I work near MacPhersons, so for me it has more to do with convenience than with the fact that I really like it, but it seems like a pretty well stocked leather store. It is essentially a large open warehouse with a retail area of about 1200 sq ft. They have a good leather selection incl' exotics, a limited Craftool section, and a pretty good selection of upper end tools like the Osborne bag punches and such. They have alot of snaps, buckles and other hardware. They have a pretty good selection of dyes too, and they carry your brand IIRC (Angelus). You probably won't do much saving if you shopped there, but if you had to have something now it might be the ticket. Take care

Both are made from a 7/8 oz shoulder (Wickett & Craig I think) I picked up from MacPhersons here in Seattle. This shoulder has a very smooth and "finished" feeling flesh side that I really like. Both were sewn on a Boss w/ 277 thread. The Kimber's holster was "shake and baked" in a freezer bag w/ Fiebings light tan, then airbrushed w/ Fiebings Pro mahogany 'cause I didn't like the way the light tan looked. This was the 1st holster for a 1911 I ever made, and I decided not to screw it up with any of my crude attempts at "detail boning". I was pretty exited that the mods I made to my G17 pattern worked OK on the 1st try, although next time I will probably reduce the size of the rear wing area around the belt loop. The G26's holster I made after taking a "free" class at my local Tandy and watching the store manager use his cocobolo tools on a practice holster I ginned up. For a guy who doesn't make many holsters he sure made it look easy. This one is my best detailing attempt so far, which admittedly leaves much to be desired, but at least it is passable to my eyes. This one was airbrushed with Fiebings Pro mahogany and accented w/ Pro black using my 'el cheapo' Harbor Freight airbrush kit, and employing the technique I learned from Particle's video.