Singermania

Your question is CLEAR and everyone and their dog understands it, its time to stop playing with words, open your mind and listen to the answers. Post after post has explained the difference between machines, why they are there and whats in them for you. It can't be put any simpler. If you continue on this path you are just going to be the guy at the Christmas party that nobody wants to sit next to.

Yes there will be some contradiction in what dealers say... just like cars where one guy will say the opposition is made in Thailand and is no good and the other guy says its a world car made in Thailand and that's a great benefit. I'm the Australian Cowboy Distributor and I know of one dealer in Melbourne that tells everyone our machines are rubbish..... its par for the course and you are smart enough to see thru the sales nonsense. Its all down to what you want to sew, sounds like you are going to go from wallets to massive items. If money was not too much a problem I'd buy a compound feed machine with a long cylinder arm with reverse, one that comes with lots of accessories. I'm cant sell you a machine and I don't have a fave dealer in the US so don't worry I'm pushing you at any particular machine. Most dealers will have a range from small to large. We keep in stock two budget leather machines.. the CB105R and the CB7205BV, then we have 3 high end machines... CB227R, CB3200 and CB4500. After that we stock our upholstery and motor trimming range of Cb1618, Cb7132UL and CB7273ECO. After that if you need a zig zag, pattern sewing etc we have to order it for you, but you have to know what you want. Today we have two people coming to our showroom/workshop, they will bring sample of what they want to sew and I will let them loose on the machines, eventually the field will be narrowed and they will decide (hopefully) on one model. Of the high end there will sew: CB227R up to 8mm thick CB3200 up to 15mm thick CB4500 up to 20mm thick. So the folk doing wallets, bags, panniers etc buy the 227R, the ones doing belts, straps, bags buy a Cb3200 and saddlers buy the CB4500 However if you buy a CB4500 its not all over at the small end, it will still take a 140 needle (1.4mm thick) and will still sew a wallet. Below the CB3200, I suspect from what you have said that this machine is going to be as close to the money as any other. With regards to where machines are made, there is no doubt that many most machines now come from China, some dealers have been caught pretending their machines are made in Japan and have now dropped that claim. If they truly are made in Japan it will be reflected in a higher price.

For you guys in the US, Gov Liquidations have a new Seiko STH-8BLD-3 in their auction. Its a good flatbed with compound feed....

Don't go Wiz, I was hoping you might define or elaborate on "aggressive teeth".... does this mean these teeth leap out of the machine and attack you, or perhaps it means they just have a mean disposition but don't actually bite?

You can play with fancy words and paragraphs here forever, in the end you'd be better off to talk to a couple of suppliers who know what they are talking about.... talk to more than one though. I also was a programmer, analyst programmer and analyst, and yes it is possible to study programming and write a decent program. Its not quite so possible to study sewing machines and actually be able to operate one well and accumulate years of valuable experience. Alternatively say what you want to sew, how thick and sit back and wait for some suggestions. Always keeping in mind of course that if your interests are too diverse that a single machine might not cover the breadth. A Singer 97-10 is not going to do a zig zag stitch on a neoprene stubby holder, a Pfaff 335 isn't going to sew 1" of leather and felt on a fender saddle and a cowboy CB4500 saddlery machine will take up a pair of jeans but wont sew your wife's undies.

To understand as much as you are trying to understand you might be under valuing the experience of the members on this forum..... in other words its a lot to expect to gain the understanding that they have gained over many years and many experiences in just a few questions. Perhaps its like riding a horse or playing golf, you can do all the theory and understand it thoroughly, you can even practice for a couple of weeks, but without years of experience you'll never really get it all.

Hi, I'm Steve Bonnett of Cowboy Leather Machines in Australia, I've been shouted down for this advice in the past but will risk the wrath once again. There are two ways to reduce the downwards foot pressure, the first is similar to new Cowboy machines that come with an extra lighter foot bar spring and the second is to take out the long foot bar coil spring and take off an end coil. Whilst this does effectively harshen the spring rate, it actually works as the spring was previously under compression even with the thumb screw at its top most point...... buy taking off a coil or two you can get the thumb screw started without compressing the spring. You don't need a lot of compression if you have a needle feed or compound feed machine. This does work, I have done it and advised it many times.

Yes this is the correct treadle for the 45K, also the 7 class used the same. If Darren has a take up lever then grab it. Typically when untrained people ship machines they break these levers, bend tension units and bend main shafts by shunting the flywheel. I have repaired a few of these levers by grafting a handmade piece on the broken shaft, just have to guess the length.

Watch out for that decal and paintwork, its not normal paint and will dissolve if you put solvents on it. I love these guys and are a good earl walking foot. I collect machine manuals mate so if you don't have a copy I can email to you... regards Steve

Like all sewing machine sellers I get people asking me what machine they should purchase. I usually ask if they are sewing textiles or leather and what, do they want old or new and then my main question is what thickness do they intend to sew. The first question will sort out the flatbeds from the cylinders from the postbeds.... so if they say they want to sew shoes... most likely they want a postbed and so on. My fave question is the thickness though, if we are talking about leather work and new machines... then the thickness will sort out the model, if they want to sew wallets and bags up to 8mm then a Cowboy 227R is the one, if they want to sew straps, belts and bridles up to 15mm then a Cowboy Cb3200 is on the money, if they want to do saddles and want a longer arm and 20mm thickness then the CB4500 will be best.

There are so many tables its hard to keep up, we keep about 6 or so tables in stock, the only ones I know by number are the ST-01 cutout table, the ST-04 light pedestal table and the ST-05 heavy pedestal tables. However we also carry tables for the skivers, the 1618 upholstersers machine, the 132K6, the long bed 7273 and tables for the 20" motorised splitters. We try wherever possible to ....not have....too many variations in machines accessories, tables, motors etc or when people ring and have a query about how to use or how to adjust something its difficult to recall that particular item. Also we have to carry spares in case something goes wrong, they rarely actually break down but on a couple of occasions we've had damage during shipping and have been able to send a replacement piece straight out. We now only carry the Hightex servo motors in 550 and 750 watts, previously we also carried Skyrit, but when people rang to ask how to adjust the speed or the direction of rotation it got confusing. We also try to only supply things that we know don't break down or are too complex.

Wouldn't like to go against what they say, its my own feeling on subject. However logically if a roller guide unit is designed to rotate and it isn't then perhaps something is wrong.

Yes this is similar to the Cowboy Leather Machines stand, however our's is a little longer (left to right) and incorporates a manual foot lift pedal.... this one must have a hydraulic lift>?

There is an open toe inner foot available, we have a couple of bags full, however yes you can slip a cutting wheel in and make your own.....perfectly acceptable in my view.

the Cowboy CB4500 has a primary and a secondary tension unit, the primary ie bottom unit is a roller type and needs to be fairly loose or the roller wont turn, get most of your tension form the top unit. If you pull thread thru the bottom unit and the unit does not rotate it either doesn't have any oil on the pads or is too tight.

Getting back to the parts, if there are any Australian or US parts manufacturers that want to offer us an alternative then I'd be interested to hear from them.

Yes we like the extra heavy stand, we offer both the lighter and heavier stands, if anyone wants to save $100 and go for the lighter stand they can, rarely happens though. We try to put everything handy into the package at our best price, which we feel is cheaper than importing one yourself..... hopefully its a win win. People do import their own machines, we usually hear about it at some point and don't mind helping to get them going, we don't get shitty about it, we don't own the market, its a free world. I agree about the price of parts, we often get complaints from other dealers saying we should mark them up more. We are in the position of being a bit later in life, we own our buildings, cars and van, we just don't have high overheads and don't need to worry too much. If it was 30 years ago and we were paying high rents, car loans etc it might be a different story. But again I have been advised by people that sell parts that you have to have a high markup to survive. Here is an example, Sillycheap Auto sell Anderson plugs for about (from memory, pls don't sue me) $8 each, I can order them online from China (yes exactly the same brand) for about $8 for 5...... I cant do the maths, but its an example of a big chain store that you imagine is cheap adding several hundred percent. I'm not saying they are ripping us off, its what is necessary to survive in business. I think what happens in business is that you have to make a lot more money than you think you need, so you can weather the bad times. If the average wage in your area is $30,000, then if you are in business you need to earn much more than this to make up for holiday periods, staff sickness, downturns in the economy, faulty goods, theft, defamation and so on.

Yes mate making $3700 AU, that'd be bare bones, no extra feet etc, no Aussie warranty and maybe works maybe not. We fine tune all of ours before they go out for $3300 or $3400 depending on table and get 3 packs of needles thrown in.

lets just say that professionally rebuilding one of these would be like rebuilding a spoon....you could do it but...why?

..........btw, rebuilt to many sewing machine dealers and resellers means pouring some oil in the holes....

there are a few machines about that work in this way, they have a few teeth that mesh together, sometimes thru fairly poor tolerances they can jump a tooth and the timing is then out, you just lift out the driver as Darren says and plonk it back down in a better spot......but rebuilt or not, it may happen again.

We get in about $25,000 Australian from Cowboy each month, the Cowboy CB4500 will typically arrive with a double toe foot and smooth feed dog installed, in the plastic bags of goodies there might be two needles, 3 bobbins and a blanket foot set (two feet and toothed feed dog). We buy separately the left and right toe leather feet, left and right toe dogleg feet, roller guide, narrow feet, flatbed table, piping feet and so on. We then put together a package of what we think most leather users would want. If a motor trimmer buys the machine, we leave out some of the leather feet and put in the piping feet. So out here the machines are offered to our customers in a form that is put together by us..... I'm only guessing that that's the case in the States too, but the other dealers there can correct me on that. It is possible to buy machines directly from China, not Cowboy though for Australia as we are the sole importer and distributor. However if you go to Ali baba etc you can get a price that looks fantastic until you tell them you only want one, then the price rises steeply. So you will pay more from a machine than we pay, you will pay more for shipping than we pay (as we ship bulk) and you will pay more to get it from the wharf to your property. After that there is a chance it wont work properly without tinkering and you have to buy the other accessories. What we try to do is use the money we save bulk buying and shipping and use it as our profit margin, therefore you would spend the same with us as importing yourself but get a machine that works, a machine that has a local warranty and local telephone backup too. The other problem is that machines that didn't pass quality control the first time thru get bogged up and sent out to the wholesalers on these public sites. We usually sell the CB3200 and CB4500 feet for between $55 and $75, I have seen them more regularly from other dealers here for $175. We try to keep the prices down, however it is generally accepted in most industries that because of the time to do a deal on a single part, pick it, wrap it, post it etc that the mark up is very high.

I agree with the guys, the needle is too big, you've massive hole there. A 140/22 should be heaps big enough.

Yep axeman, you can go to 346 thread, you may or may not need the huge needle size, it depends on what you are sewing and also some modern threads are not as thick as they used to be.