BigJake

If I remember correctly my 206RB came from Albrands and was delivered by UPS in two or three packages. The machine, the table, and the motor. I recommend getting the servo motor. I have purchased a bunch of pressor feet from Cut-Sew-Service in Calif. Hope this helps.

Sooper Jake My holster plate looks like your except the top is smooth with no teeth. The only purpose for the feed dog, since it does not contact the material being stitched, is to force the thread from the needle to be puuled straight down. Without the feed dog the slot is too big and allows the hook to pull the needle, thread and leather forward even with the heaviest pressor foot tension. The C4 machine has the front of the walking foot/needle pressor foot with a slot. According to Steve this is to allow users to see the next stitch. The original 441 and other clones do not have this cut-out. On my machine when sewing 1/4" or more veg tan leather, without the feed dog, the needle still burried in the leather will be pulled forward flexing the needle to the point that it's pulled into the slot cut in the walking foot/needle foot. This is because the rotation of the hook pulling the thread forward as it makes the loop, pulls the material and flexes the needle. I have not tried a lube pot but I am using lubricated nylon thread which would serve the same purpose. I have never experienced this before with any other machines I've owned, but I will admit I'm stitching heavier leather now than before. It seems in reading other post about cranking up the stitch length to get 6 SPI and not backing up in the same hole indicates they are experiencing the same problem and just haven't noticed the needle flex as the problem.

The holster p[late that came with my C4 has no teeth on it and the feed dog I'm using has teeth on it and is sopposed to be used when sewing canvas and such according to the instruction manual. I'm using this feed dog because it has a round hole for the needle to pass as opposed to an oblong hole with the other feed dogs. As I have said previously in several other posts, this is to correct or minimize a characteristic of heavy stitching of 1/4" or more of leather thickness. I have a Consew 206RB5 and it will sew 207 thread Ok, not perfect but OK in 3/16" of veg tan leather. Some have said on this forum that the cure for the "short stitch" and failure to reverse into the same hole, is to use 207 thread on the bobbin and 277 for the top thread. This defeats my purpose of owning a 441 clone which is to be able to use 277 thread for top and bottom. Those of you who sew cowboy holsters know that certain parts of the holster that are visable from the front, is actually the bottom or bobbin stitch thread along with the protruding leather due to the needle holes. I need a thread which is of sufficent size/diameter that matches the thickness of the leather for the appearance. Strength is not an issue but for appearance only so 207 thread is not an option. If I wanted to use 207 thread I would have spent my money on a smaller machine. There may be other solutions to this problem which I haven't discovered yet, but for now it the holster plate, feed dog with the teeth and round hole. Some may say that there is something wrong with my machine causing the short stitches and the failure to back up in the same hole without tweeking the stitch length for the back-up. I have checked the timing and all adjustments described in the user manual and the Juki 441 manual and all are within spec. The C4 will perform perfectly with out any thread in the needle and back up in the same hole. It's when you put thread into the equasion, that the problem arises. I have purchased needles from the three major producers of the 441 clone machine and these are the ones that "everyone's using" I'm told. They all exibit the same problem and as I have said 207 thread in the bobbin is not an option for me. Thread tension from almost nothing to heavy tension, pressor foot adjusted for the maximum pressure (screwed all the way down) didn't solve the problem. I have owned four walking foot machine over a period of 20 years, a Juki don't remember the model, a Singer 211G, a Consew 206Rb5 and now the C4. I'm not exactly a newby on sewing machines but this issue is still a work in progress. Sorry if my explanation is not clear, but with my two fingers of typing, I need to condense the text as small as possible and hopefully get the point across.

My previous post need correcting. The OP was about STRAP PLATE and somehow I got HOLSTER PLATE and my comments were pertaining to the HOLSTER PLATE. The strap plate is not as tall and I'm certain the feed dog would hit the plate. Sorry for the confusion.

Count me as one who uses it 95 % of the time for holsters. I only make cowboy holsters for six guns and if you check my other posts about the feed dog and using it with the holster plate. Yes I do use the feed dog. For most applications you should use the right pressor foot because the left side on the of the plate is so narrow the pressor foot misses completely the plate. Use the right or the double foot. Using the plate reduces the thickness of material one can sew due to the height of the plate. About 1/2" is the limit. It works for me as long as my main seam is not over 1/2".

I have a C4 machine and this is what I've learned and some of this may be of benefit to the OP. The text in blue is from another post which I describe some of the problem. I have the same problem with my C4 machine and it's about the top thread tension. Put about 1/4" of leather in your machine and turn the handwheel very slowly and look closely at the needle/presser foor interaction. You might take off the dust cover off and also watch the thread as the stitch is picked up. When the hook picks up the thread the needle is on the way up and as the hook rotates on around pulling thread through the needle and top thread tensions, observe what happens. The top thread is pulled toward the front of the machine and at the same time the needle is pulled/bent toward the front of the machine along with your product because the needle is still in the product. The high tension will cause the product to slip under the pressor foot, which is effect shortens the stitch length. The thicker the material being sewed, the more top tension, therefore shorter stitches. I also expect that when you are backstitching the needle is not going in the same hole. That's because to compensate for the above issue if you want 6 STI you will need to set the machine for 5 STI. When the lever is reversed there is no p[roduct slipage under the presser foot and therefore you will get 5 STI on the backstitch. Take a scrap piece of 8oz veg tan and stitch without any thread in the needle. The stitches will be longer than when thread is used. Is there a fix for this, which I'm sure is a top tension issue? I don't know. I do believe that haveing the front of the walking foot or needle foot cut out adds to the problem. When I sew 1/4" of veg tan using 277 thread top and bottom and a 25 needle, the needle will be bent forward completely into the cutout. The other heavy stitchers like the Ferdco and Juki 441 I've seen, don't have this cutout. Just a round hole for the needle to pass through. This round hole would prevent the needle from coming forward nearly as much and I believe would solve much of the problem. This is follow up info I've learned since then. I basically sew cowboy gunleather using veg tan leather in 9/10 to 12/14 oz and 277 nylon thread top and bottom and a 25 needle. I mainly use the holster plate and the feed dog with the teeth on it, (don't know what it's called). This feed dog has a smnall round hole for the needle to pass thru and the small hole is the reason I use it. I know the manual says to remove the feed dog when using the holster plate, but on my machine the feed dog does not hit the plate at any time. Without the feed dog the thread and the needle will be pulled forward just as the needle is about to clear the leather and the shuttle hook has picked up the top thread and is pulling the thread forward along with the leather,the stitch length is shortened due to the material moving forward under the pressor foot. This also causes the stitches not to match when reversing the stitch. Having three different type of needles and all have the same issue which is the needle below the scarf is back to normal diameter but with no slot to recess the thread the top tension is thrown off by this increased tension as the needle is about to clear the leather. Having the feed dog with the small round hole forces the thread to be pulled in a more straight down pull and does not pull the needle forward or the leather and therefore the problem. Increasing the pressor foot tension to the max did not fix this problem. Only adding the feed dog. This issue is very difficult to explain in text and I hope this explanation is clear. Turn your machine over by hand very slowly and carefully watch the leather, the needle and pressor foot and interact, if you have this problem, you should consider what I've tried to explain above.

Bigpaws, You might want to give Steve at Leather Machines a call.

Browse the web for the othere 441 clone machines and look at the presser foot for the needle. They will all have a round hole for the needle to pass. This hole would prevent all but the slightest forward movement of the needle which would go a long way to solve the problem. If you use any of the plates that require removing the feed dog such as the holster plate, the problem is compounded. I have checked the timing and all other adjustments and all are good. Shurely others are having this problem as well.

Slow Learner, I have the same problem with my C4 machine and it's about the top thread tension. Put about 1/4" of leather in your machine and turn the handwheel very slowly and look closely at the needle/presser foor interaction. You might take off the dust cover off and also watch the thread as the stitch is picked up. When the hook picks up the thread the needle is on the way up and as the hook rotates on around pulling thread through the needle and top thread tensions, observe what happens. The top thread is pulled toward the front of the machine and at the same time the needle is pulled/bent toward the front of the machine along with your product because the needle is still in the product. The high tension will cause the product to slip under the pressor foot, which is effect shortens the stitch length. The thicker the material being sewed, the more top tension, therefore shorter stitches. I also expect that when you are backstitching the needle is not going in the same hole. That's because to compensate for the above issue if you want 6 STI you will need to set the machine for 5 STI. When the lever is reversed there is no p[roduct slipage under the presser foot and therefore you will get 5 STI on the backstitch. Take a scrap piece of 8oz veg tan and stitch without any thread in the needle. The stitches will be longer than when thread is used. Is there a fix for this, which I'm sure is a top tension issue? I don't know. I do believe that haveing the front of the walking foot or needle foot cut out adds to the problem. When I sew 1/4" of veg tan using 277 thread top and bottom and a 25 needle, the needle will be bent forward completely into the cutout. The other heavy stitchers like the Ferdco and Juki 441 I've seen, don't have this cutout. Just a round hole for the needle to pass through. This round hole would prevent the needle from coming forward nearly as much and I believe would solve much of the problem.

Yes this is an old topic and still unanswered so the answer must be a secret. This forum has more experts that any leather forum on the WWW so surely someone here must have a solution. BJ

If I remember correctly the HF gun has a .8 or .1 spray nozzle (should say on the front of the nozzle). Springfield leather has a gun on sale now which has a .5 nozzle which is about as small as it gets with this type of gun. There is a balance of air pressure at the gun, nozzle size, viscosity of the material being sprayed, for the material to atomize correctly and not wind up as big drops on your leather. I suggest buying a mini regulator with a gauge and attach to your gun. Adjust the pressure at the gun to 15 or 18 PSI with the trigger pulled as a starting point. Adjust the material feed knob down to where it barely sprays, adjust your fan width down about 1/2 way. Spray some dye on a scrap of leather and adjust the air pressure until you get good atomization. This will be about as good as your gun will do. The better known manufactures of air brushes mave models with larger tip sizes available which would close the gap between the airbrush and the gravity feed spray gun. The airbrush being small and the spray gun bigger, at best. Siphon feed will not cut it for our use, gravity feed will handle heavier material all things being equal. Top coats like Resolene, Bag Kote, etc. will require thinning about 50/50 and I suggest going down to yout local auto paint supply store and asking for some disposable paint strainers. Strain your top coats when filling your gun or airbrush as this stuff gels fairly quickly and will plug the nozzle.

Matt, I understand your frustration but since I have posted this very question on this forum before with very limited response, I have to assume no one has the answer and it's just the characteristic of suede and we will just have to learn to live with it. I've been think about trying pigskin or deerskin with the flesh side out in natural colors. I have not seen suede in natural color but it may be available and if I could fine it I'd try dying it myself using Feibings Oil Dye. I guess this will be an on-going experiment searching for the solution. If you find a solution please post on the forum for the benefit of everyone else with the same problem.

I have the Barry King Beader size 0 and if you want a tool that makes a bead with a rounder top without making too deep an impression then this is it. Note that it does not cut like the double swivel knife which makes parallel lines but not rounded at the top unless you go really deep. A custom beader would not be difficult to make with a Dremel tool and a length of 1/4" stainless rod. I'm sure Barry King will accept a return if the tool is not to your liking.

I remember back in the late 50's when blue suede shoes were popular, I managed to talk my parents into buy me a pair of Blue suede loafers. Of course I wore white socks which was the rage back then and I still remember my Mom complaining about the dye bleed on my socks and she had a difficult time trying to cleam my socks. Needless to say I only oned one pair of suede shoes. I had hoped that the dying process had improved somewhat since then, but I guess not. Suede will just transfer, nothing one can do about it so I just learn to live with it or go to pigskin, or deerskin in natural colors.

I have a 206rb-5 and have found this company has just about the largest selection of pressor feet and attachments. I have been happy with the several purchases I've made over the years. http://www.cutsewservice.com/index2.htm

Matt, I don't have an answer for your problem. I posted a similar question here: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=40124&hl= and so far none of the suggestions have worked. None of the suedes I have tried seem to have the dye "fixed" and are prone to bleed. It could be the suede in question is cheap but I tend to believe it's just the nature of suede. Some colors may be more prone than others since the ones I've used for my testing are in the brown to rust colors. In addition to the suggestions from my previous post, I've tried hair spray and one coat of Resolene with no succes. Resolene may work if applied in three or four coats which would make the suede totally stiff. If anyone has a solution, I'd sure like to hear it.

Well here's where I am today in my search for answers to my dye question. I inquired at Tandy leather on Saturday about this issue and their response was "all suede transfers dye, some more than others" They suggested trying soda ash so I finally found some at Hobby Lobby, and while I was at Tandy I purchased some scrap pieces of suede in a rust color, which is what I have on my gun belt. I'm thinking I'll try the vinegar/ water mix and the soda ash on the scrap pieces as a test. After an overnight dry of the suede, the dye would rub off on a clean dry cloth with both sample pieces. Now this is not aggresive rubbing, just a half dozen strokes. Next test was with a damp cloth, both samples transfered badly to the cloth. Suede is pretty much universally used by gun rig makers when the belt will be worn outside the pant loops, or at least the ones I'm familar with. Am I the only one to have this dye transfer issue? Surely someone has an answer to the problem.

It sounds like the vinegar and water mixture "fixes" the dye in the suede but I have never heard of this. I'm visiting the Tandy store today to purchase some suede (after confirming it will also transfer) to use for testing. I have contacted the maker of my belt to ask his opinion about the vinegar and water, no answer yet, or I may just send it back to him to correct the problem.

OK how about some details on doing this. Should I be concerned about this mixture contacting the front side of the belt? Do I just rub it in and leave it to dry to seal the suede? Should I be concerned about the contact cement bond between the suede and the veg tanned and carved leather on the front side? At this point I'm willing to try anything but I need more info before using this mixture.

I contacted the maker and he said the suede was "as supplied" from his supplier with no additional dyes added by the maker. He suggested a mild soapy water cleaning which I have not tried yet. Any suggestions?

I hope this is the correct forum to raise this question, but I'm having a problem with my gun rig. This outfit is a cowboy holster and gunbelt which is suede lined on the belt only. The suede seems to transfer the dye to my pants if I wear a light color and it's not the suede fibers rubbing off, it's the dye. Rubbing with a white cloth does the same thing. This is a nice belt and I would like to correct this issue and I'm hoping someone has a suggestion since the dye does not completely wash out of my pants.

I've made a few trips to the local Tandy's and purchased a few tools, dyes, etc, and also a belt blank which I have completed, but it's just plain with no stamping. Using some scrap pieces of veg tanned leather, I've been practicing a basket weave pattern and have the hang of it somewhat. I have also experimented using Fiebings alcohol dyes and Eco-Flo antiguing. I like using an airbrush to apply the alcohol dye for coverage consistancy, but the Eco-Flo must be applied with a damp cloth or sponge, and that's where the problem comes in. For example, a mens wallet or checkbook cover, border stamped, stitched around the perimiter. The border stamping is within an area defined by a cut with my swivel knife, leaving about 3/8" of smooth leather for the stitching at the edge. The thread will be white and the stitching will be done last, so I have figured out that part of the work. I want the stitched 3/8" area to be tan and the basket weave area to be medium brown. It would seem that I need to guard or protect the stitched area before applying the antiquing on the basketweave area and I guess I could do that by air brushing the tan dye on the whole piece for uniform color. Then I could brush on some Resolene on the stitch area to seal it, then wipe on the antiquing in the basketweave area and wipe off for the desired antique effect. Of course a final coat of Resolene over the whole project to seal it. Does anyone have a suggestion for a better way to do this? I have not done any reading on leatherworking other than this website which has been very informative. Thanks BJ