AndyKnight

Steve, Awsome work It looks very good. I like the lilys Andy

I havn't used barge for about 15 years. I quit when I stopped fixing boots. I use contact cement which is available at any building supply co. As well, I have also started using a helmefix latex base contact cement to get away from the fumes. It works well , sticks incredibly stong. downside is it takes a lot longer to dry to be ready to stick. If it isn't dry it just won't stick.

sounds like I make them the same as Troys. ( I usually scallop the skirt up and the connector bridges the scallop and acts as a wear leather as well.

I can usually cover bowman with no issues welt free. Modified association can be tough But I have done tons of them over the years. Now I just love wades!!! I figure that sadlemakers and treemakers should be able to charge more for swell forks. I just covered one that had higher shoulders than a bowman. similar to a mod association. It was about the limit. for me as it was folded under itself around the rim of the fork. If you pink the front and run it under the front of the fork you can get quite a bit of leather pushed in there. Also cut your seat generously and you can cover quite a bit. Years ago I used to cover some by cover ing the gullet and the fork with one piece. I cut them with gullet going in to the flank. The old Muir Macdonald leather was great for covering forks! Now I usually cut my fork covers out of the shoulder . a good balance between mold-ability and durability. Any time you have to really work at it you will have an issue with stamping or carving as you have stretch, hammer , and rub the leather so much to smooth it out. Bottom line I hand stitch folded welts in most of my forks with higher shoulders usually straight down the side. Sometimes I will use a blind stitch. I am a contact cement guy and that is what I use now on my swell forks aswell. I case the leather really well and allow it to dry enough to where it will stick with contact. I fit the cover, horn hole , hand hole and the fork rim. I then take it off , roll my fork rim, and glue, rough it up and glue around the fork rim , horn and hand hole. both on the cover and on the tree. Now before placing it on I wet the rest of the fork cover,with water and then apply copious amount of glue so that it won't dry right away. Now place it on the fork . The areas that are glued and dry you can stick in the place you want them and they will stay. eg: get your horn hole and fork rim lined up perfectly. placed. nail, Now you can spike down the rest. When it is dry it is tight and glued down forever. Not very traditional but it works for me. I hate lacing up behind the horn unless I absolutely have to. !!. It is a lazy thing.!

I havn't used blue tacks for about 20 years. I use a stainless steel ring nail ..5/8 or 1" . These are the same tacks that I uese when rawhiding a tree. . They have far better holding power plus they don't stain your leather. I use brass tacks on occasion.

Ihaven't visited this site for a while so just found this topic. It has been a good read. My opiniion for what it is worth. It may be different next week Good quality wood and rawhide is the best combination for me. That being said I am not stuck on it. I don't mind trying dfferent things as I believe that the only way to improve is to remain open and to try them. I also cordinate saddles being made with trees covered with spray on "box liner". This being a price point thing. I built a sail boat a few years ago and that introduced me to the world of epoxies and different fiberglass cloths. I now use epoxy exclusively for gluing my trees together. I have covered one tree of mine with epoxy and fiberglass and also put in a cable rigging in it.! Not very traditional but it made an awsome lightweight saddle. For me it was a worse mess than slimey rawhide!!! One of my issues with fiberglass is that my glues don't stick to it as well..and it seemed to me that to make it as strong as heavy rawhide you would need either multiple layers or very heavy cloth and multiplke coating of epoxy. Got to get to work Andy

I use the equimeasure.com pads alot for long distance dustomers. It is not as good as having the horse in my yard! but they do give me a good idea of what I am looking at. The down side is they are only as accurate as how well the customer gets it molded. I am constantly tweaking my tree design. .

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diddo to Go2Tex. can make a saddle from 2 sides however will often get into the third not because ther is not enough leather but because in am anal about using more firm leather so I have lots of bellies left over. 5 sides for two saddles....

are you building saddles?? Tools ...Jeremiah watt ------ jw To utilize dies you will need to make quantities of the the same patterned product. most custom shops cut by hand.

??? Does it do it with all horses ...Does it do it with other riders.... Are the riggings even. Is the cantle set at 90 degrees . is the ground seat even. What does it do riderless. If a horse isn' t "straight" can cause some crookedness. ..Often see very uneven withers . I have seen trees that sit on the Block square that the bars are at different angle while not obvios will cause all kinds of issues. I have seen quite a few where tha cantles are crooked which causes the rider to sit crooked. Had one customer complain..finially figerd out that one leg was shorter than the other since an accident.

Greg , Nos Hoc Capio Sus what the heck is that in english....?? I mucked with a couple of rubber barred trees..a number of years ago. A royal pain.in the a...!. also agree not a good Idea to put ones name on some of these.

When I price my repair work the value of the saddle has nothing to do with the price. I always pre-quote so the customer has no surprises. What I am pricing for the customer is my labour plus material , plus profit. Materials are always Plus 30 percent for waste plus 30 percent for markup. My shop labour rate which is $50.00 per hour covers my shop expenses and my wages. I don't usually break the quote down. If a customer chooses to put a $500.00 repair in a $400.00 saddle ( all though I will try and dissuade him) that is there business. Andy

hi Darc, I finally figured out DA Kabatoff is!! Your saddles are sure looking good.! If your travelling through drop by for a visit. Andy

Heres my 2 cents.... Sounds like the leather is maybe too wet. Try using the choke strap again or rub stick when it is almost dry. I usually try to cover a horn with ethe wings cased to about the same as if I were stamping. It looks dry but isn't. However if the pattern isn't 100 percent then having the wings wetter willl make it easier. then rrub or choke as suggested. I like to use decent leather. The cap portion as firm as possible with the wing portion towards the belly. ( not flanky) I will sometimes glue the underneath wing. My deal is that I want them to stay tight forever.

I use screws more than I drill . ( not set in stone) Partly becuase I make my own trees.... I hate to drill big holes in that wood!! However I agree with Greg that cutting the lacing if you do drill shouldn't hurt the tree provided it is laced with rawhide lace. A wreck is possible, however it can go both ways. A customer can repair a screwed in string easier than fishing a string through the tree under the sheep. I am very particular how and where they are attached especilly if I am using screws. I pre drill any screws that I put in a tree. I use at least 5 bleeder strings for attaching the skirts. 2 at the front and 3 at the back.

We are located in Lower Nicola. Just west of Merritt.

Here is a picture of a saddle that my apprentice just finished . He built the tree also.( with a little help!) He did a good job so I thought that I would share with you guys. This is his third saddle. Andy

I have made quite a few with zippers years ago. If you have a stitcher it works well. if you are interested I will try and take a pic of the one I made my wife 25 years ago!

The feel that you would get from being close to the horse from the inside of the thigh down is probably inconsequential for 99 percent of the riders out there. how ever the comfort of the least amount of leather between you and your horse is appreciated by most horseman that experience the difference. eeven more so if you are riding wide horses. I build working rigs with these ideas with good success. I guess close contact has two areas... One vertically how far from the horse are you sitting and the other is lateral ,what is between you and the horse from the thigh down. In my busineSS I been focusing more on the lateral . When I am working with a customer that wants "california syle stirrup leathers " Flat Plate riggin" extra heavy leather. etc. I show them how many layers of leather that I can remove.. It can be a very subtantial amount. This does not mean I don't like building saddle with flat plate and heavy leather etc., infact I prefer to! I also agree with what Rod and denise say that the wider you make the tree the further it will go down at the front.. .. causing a front low saddle. One of the things that I now take into cosideration as to how far apart to set the bars is the size of the horses spine. If the saddle is being built for 900 lb arabs the spine is cosiderbly narrower that the 1500 percheron cross. My reasoning is thst the muscles on the smaller hore that the bars need to set on are considerbly closer then on the large r horse ... Whenever I give saddle fitting seminars I always say thet " this is what I belive to be right today, it may be different tomorrow!! "

Pella. The further the bars of a tree are apart the lower they will go on the horse back allowing the saddle to sit lower will in affect put the riders "seat bones" closer to the horse. The down side to this is that the seat will become wider. Then the tree maker has to narrow the waist of the tree to try and compensate for this. Either way the tree can fit the horse but keep in mind that the lower the bars come down the horses back the restrictivness of the tree increases.

When i build a close contact saddle i make it with the least amount of leather under the insde of the thigh area as possible. This is done by using lighter leather , usually a full double or 15/16 rigging, half stirrup leathers (2 1/2"). No plugging under the thigh area of the skirt as well as cutting the skirt up . With a saddle built this way the rider can feel the horse from the inside of the thigh right down to the stirrup. Obviosly this isn't your average ranch saddle however I use the same ideas in heavier saddles to increase the ridability of the saddle. Narrower waisted trees can help but the tree in itself will not create a close feel. Typical production made " close contact" saddles tend to be a marketing ploY!!

Hey Greg, I see you are still making some good looking rigs.. I just signed up to this forum tonight and saw your saddle. I may have to get you to send me some alligator skin...it is hard to get up here. Andy