480volt

The family of the owner of the three 97-10s owned and operated a wholesale leather manufacturing business in downtown San Francisco from the early 1900s. When he sold the building and relocated about five years ago, I was told that they still had an operating line-shaft for some equipment. I've seen a few old wooden sheaves laying around the current location, all that's left of the line-shaft set. I'd seen lots of old photos of machine shops with overhead flat belts driving equipment, but never a leather related shop.

I'd love to have one, it'd cost me more than the price of the machine in fuel just to pick it up. I know a guy locally that has three, a user and two spares. Won't part with any of them.

No product endorsement, this is a factory version of a handcuff case

Any consumer with the extremely modest internet savvy to be reached by deceptive, or even predatory, online vendors has the skill set necessary to do a google search. If anyone reading this saw a posting on craigs for a machine they had never heard of, of course they would search it. If you simply search "leather sewing machine", one of the top hits is going to be Wiz's comprehensive post regarding this very topic. Anyone unwilling to do a little basic research prior to buying is in for a long, bumpy road in this craft, likely resulting in a box of Tandy entry-level tools for sale on Craigslist. They should roll up their copy of the enquirer and hit themselves on the back of the hand anytime they mouse towards the "buy" button. Or something like that. Rant over.

Buy a Bob Douglas slim awl blade. Buy a Douglas or Barry King awl handle. Bob's awl blades come sharp and are polished to a mirror finish, you should own one if only to give you a reference on what a well finished one should look like. Eventually, he will retire and you will kick yourself for never acquiring one. On the downside, his blade and handle combo will likely be longer than what you are used to. Other members here have suggested snapping off the blade to shorten it, I just reserve it for heavy work. I use a well sharpened and polished Tandy awl for lighter stuff, the small handle is easy to palm, and the recess at the top left from the lathe center is good for getting the needles started on that tough stuff.

That's the rode hard, put away wet, Koenig PTO winch on my Powerwagon, just the way I got it from the PO. Nothing to do with leather, I just appreciate old, unkillable equipment (as long as you don't replace the shear pin with a bolt).

Wiz, thanks for ideas on how far from shoe repair you can go with one of these machines! Now, if it just had the capacity of one of those Claes patchers...

Great photo! As they say, a picture's worth a thousand posts! Was there a date attached to that photo, or can any military historians identify those uniforms?

Solid electrical wire is hard drawn, and will be much easier to work if you anneal it first. Brass wire, too.

The Singer 29-4 and associated machines are discussed frequently on this forum. I own one and I know its uses and limitations. It's usually referred to as a cobblers machine, designed for patching shoes- which brings me to my point. What would a cobbler actually use one for? You certainly couldn't sew the welt on a sole. Ive worked in construction for decades and I've never seen a boot wear out where applying a patch would do you a bit of good. It's always heels, soles and the tips of the toes that wear out. Granted, you could resew the backstays on my Wescos, or maybe repair the stitching on the vamp or heel counter but it wouldn't be pretty and you certainly wouldn't use it on an expensive fashion shoe where the pressor foot marks are going to be objectionable. Quite a few of this class of machine must have been sold, based on how many are still around, but how were they actually used? Any cobblers willing to weigh in on this one?

Second on the Wiha. I use insulated ones for energized work and I have never broken or worn out the tip on one. The rest of mine are Klein.

Photos

I agree, the old ones are probably at least more consistent on finish. These are straight from CSO, just delivered April of 2017. I'd say the taper is ground well and dead concentric, the cutting edge and bore could use refinement. Several of the tools have carbon-like deposits inside the bore maybe from quench oil. What is surprising is the random look of the blanks they started with, almost as if shape and finish were left up to whoever was on the grinder that day. #0 had the slot enlarged with an end mill. #8 had the top ground flat. #4 is really the odd one out, as on the others, the flash from closed-die forging is still evident. On #4 the parting line is ground completely off and all surfaces are radiused, and the finish looks tumbled. Tool looks cast, except that the finish inside the slot looks identical to the others. The CSO stamp is also different. CSO claims that all metalwork is done in-house, I wonder if #4 is supplied by an outside vendor. I'll approach Bruce or maybe Bob Douglas about any other sizes I want.

R.J. Leahy Company in San Francisco.

I'm looking to upgrade from the random collection of small round punches that I currently use and I'm leaning towards spending the long dollar on several new CSO #147 drive/saddler punches. I know there has been a long, slow decline in the quality of their products, but does anyone have actual, hands on experience with recent production examples of these? I know they will be dull as fence posts out of the box, what I really care about is the metallurgy and overall quality. I can deal with putting on an edge.

I'm looking to upgrade from the random collection of small round punches that I currently use and I'm leaning towards spending the long dollar on several new CSO #147 drive/saddler punches. I know there has been a long, slow decline in the quality of their products, but does anyone have actual, hands on experience with recent production examples of these? I know they will be dull as fence posts out of the box, what I really care about is the metallurgy and overall quality. I can deal with putting on an edge.

It seems there are a lot of 45k machines in use - in Australia. I know it was a successful model with a long production run and many subclasses, but you rarely see them up for sale here on the west coast of the US. Not all of the saddle makers here could have been using 97-10s, so why the scarcity of machines on the used market?

Bob Douglas makes the best copper rivet setting tools. The finish and detail on all his tools is phenomenal. This is the full set, #8,9,10,12 & 14. One tool drives the burr, one tool peens the shank of the rivet and the last one domes the flat head on the opposite end of the rivet. I have a good lathe (Hardinge) and I couldn't buy the Stress-Proof bar stock, turn the diameter, radius the ends, bore, knurl, and polish all the surfaces for what he charges for these, about 60.00 for each 3-piece set.

Bob Douglas makes the best copper rivet setting tools. The finish and detail on all his tools is phenomenal.

Going to reply to my own post. Lee Douglas was kind enough to return my e-mail, and they are still in business, just don't have a web site. Contact them at: Bob and Lee DouglasDouglas Saddle Co.46 Wakeley RoadSheridan, WY 82801307-737-2222 Best of luck to them Ken

With the closing of Sheridan Leather, has Bob Douglas retired from manufacturing tools, or will he still do business directly? I've tried emailing DSC tools, haven't received a reply yet. Thanks, Ken

I'm sure this topic is just beating a horse long dead, but do any dealers out there specialize in new old-stock Singer industrial parts? Other than a few dusty, back-of-the-shelf finds, I'm sure most of the 111w class parts were exhausted decades ago, but what happened to the military surplus stocks?