Doug Mclean

I'm afraid I don't have picture of the exact angle you are looking for. This is probably the closest. I will have him bring the saddle in and get it in the shop with better lights and get some pictures. Thanks for the help...

I made this saddle last winter and posted some pictures. My customer is not completely happy with the way this saddle is fitting. Maybe some of you can help me. I'm wanting to fix this problem for his satisfaction as well as my own knowledge. The groundseat is supporting his weight more on his hip bones than is comfortable. I'm not sure my pictures will show what you need to see! All input will be appreciated! P.S. I have more pictures. I need some help reducing them so I can show you what I need to???? ( Cowboys should not have access to computers )

Roping steers have many admirable traits! But one thing to remember. If you believe in reincarnation, being a roping steer would be the equivalent of the place where all of the cowboys end up who have been very very bad!!!!!!

We've had roping steers end up in the freezer also. Sometimes it's the little things in life that give you the most pleasure.

Jennifer: This mare is likely to stay fairly wide through out her life. Not that she is bad because of it. For what you are wanting to do it sounds like her attitude is probably as important as conformation. If you are wanting a quick fix for less money. Potts Longhorn made a production saddle with full quarterhorse bars in 70s. There is probably one setting on a rack somewhere with your name on it. Get the word out on the internet you might be surprised. Still a good idea to have a saddle maker work with you and get the custom saddle made. One piece of advise and it may have already been stated. Try and find some middle ground on the tree fitting. This horse may not be with you for ever and the next one could be all together different.

Looks pretty smooth for a first timer. The great thing about working with leather and biulding saddles it biulds a desire to try again. Most of the time you already know the places you want to improve next time.

That is very nice work. I like the way you blend the back ground. Is that a matt tool or a backgrounder. Is the yak deal a joke or do you actually raise them??

David: Do you have a picture or an illustration of the tree you would use on this project?

One more picture. Could use some advice on how to shrink these photos down to a managable size.

More pictures! I didn't want that last one to wear out so I put it in twice

Here are some more pictures of the saddle. The tree is a Will James tree from Quality Mfg. The cut out skirt is for a narrower fit. This will probably start a whole new topic but here goes. You can work on the ground seat all you want, but if you have a good heavy set of skirts that come down the horse as deep as they need to be on a roping saddle it is going to spread you out to far anyway. Now to make myself understood (clear as mud!!) I do spend a lot of time in the ground seat. To help keep a saddle square on a horse that is pulling or taking a jerk I think you need to come down the sides a ways under the front and back riggin. The saddle went to a man that picks up bucking horses. He will sure test it out and I can let you know how he likes it here directly as he is one of the pickup men at the Miles City Bucking Horse Sale. This is the first saddle I have made for about 15 years. There are things on it that I am proud of and things that I want better next time. Anxious to here everyones thoughts both good and bad. Thanks Doug McLean

This is the saddle I have been working on this winter.

You can get a product called deglazer. It is used in the shoe repair trade to take the finish and polish buildup off of dress shoes. Go to your local shoe repair and they should know what you are needing. I wouldn't use it on the lace as it will probably take the finish off of your lace. Practice on a scrap piece. We used it on factory saddles that came in to be cleaned and oiled. If the saddle had some finish left on it you can clean it off with degazer and then the oil will soak in more evenly. Good Luck

I'm not sure this will do exactly what you are looking for!!!! I have taken the blade out of a swivel knife and inserted the end of a beveler tool in it's place. I'm sure this has been done many times as I think I was given the idea by another maker. It will not replace the process of beveling your lines but used as a tool to open up your lines, smooth out rough spots and also in those spots where you just need a little detail. Hope this helps ! Doug

Hi Tammy: I have been following along on your quest to start up in business. I can almost feel your enthusiasm by reading your comments. This is important never loose your enthusiasm. That's a big word for a cowboy. I had to look it up to see how to spell it. Always keep thinking of new ways to get your products in front of the people who are likely to want to buy them . Try new things. Sometimes you are suprised by what people really want. Best of Luck to you I can tell you are going to do very well. Keep that positive attitude!!!! Doug McLean

Hi Jon: I'm looking at your riggin jig. When you first start your work are the bolts up or down? Doug McLean 406-853-6961

Bob: Thanks for the data base. Kinda hard to believe there are that many choices. I tried to save this on my favorites so I could use it when looking for a tool and didn't have any luck. Is there something special I have to do? Thanks Doug McLean 406-853-6961

Jon: This always works for me. Get the biggest mallet you have and press any key!!!! Just kidding

Thanks to you Bob for starting another topic of such importance. This is as important to a young saddle maker as any aspect of the business. I realize jumping in on this conversation is like coaching from the bleachers, but I lived this life for 10 years and made most of these mistakes in person. Keith you touched on it when you said you have a store front location. Location Location Location. The other thing is market analysis. If you want to sell $6500.00 saddles you have to get them in front of people with $6500.00 in their pocket. We have so many tools now that were not well known to us in the 80's if they were available at all. The market shows were available I'm not sure about these trade gatherings??? The trade shows at major events, where a person can get their work out in the public eye. The internet has become a major tool. The great thing with the internet, It is available to everyone. One comment on the web sites. You need to get someone involved who understands how to organize your site in such a way that it will be picked up by the search engines. Getting back to the point. This is a very broad topic that deserves a lot of attention. Marketing your product and organizing your business goals are as important as any other aspect of the trade. Placing your prices high will not in itself make you a success, nor will being the cheapest. I'm a part time saddle maker and probably more of the problem than the cure. I have always said to young people that ask about getting started in the saddle business. Go work for someone and learn the trade. Doug McLean

Thank You everyone for all of the good feed back. On my way to the shop to put some of these ideas to work. Will let you know when the smoke clears. Thanks again !!!

I would be interested in what everyone has to say about putting in the riggin and skirts. When I start on a saddle I usually use the center of the horn and the center of the cantle as my reference points. And then when I am in the process of attaching riggin and skirts I will use a straight edge on front of the fork resting on the top of the bars and also on the back of the fork. I usually try and find a happy medium between all of these. Sometimes I am not very happy with the end result. It seems like I end up having to make some compromises. I also wonder if you should be looking at the bottom side in regards to the riggin and not so much concern about what shows up on the top. I'm in the process of putting in a riggin and it is not going as well as I would like. ( Can you tell !!!!)

The machine is a needle and awl machine. As for its use in the holster trade someone else will have to help us on that one. I have sold the machine here locally, just today. Thank You for your interest anyway. DMcLean

Thank you for your response. That is an interesting picture. I wil have to tear that saddle down and look at the wear pattern now just for curiosity. The horse that we sored was one of our own and he had a very nice back. But he also put in some grueling hours the summer this happened. I have come to the conclusion that if you want to think you have everything just right wait till fall and that will tell you. This brings up a couple of ???? 1. When you place a bare tree on a horse to check the fit. How much do you have to allow for skirt and blanket thickness? There must be a certain amount of change from bare back / bare tree to finished product. What is the rule of thumb? 2. When you are ordering a tree and you want a certain amount of rock front to back how do you explain this to the tree maker? Thanks again for your response. DMcLean

I like the wade bar pattern for what I do with my horses and they seem to work pretty good in this country for the saddles that I have on the job. But I had some made a while back that came with a little to much sway or belly for lack of a better term. It wasn't noticeable when you looked at the under side from the front. But they were sure enough putting some serious white marks on right under the center of the saddle. I took these apart and fixed them myself by taking out the back side of the stirrup slot. Now I order my trees that way. In another conversation it was mentioned about having some relief or clearance in this area. How much are talking about? DMcLean

Clay I'm trying your e-mail button and not getting anywhere with it ???? Could be me!! Would like a copy of the shop manual though. Thanks DMcLean