kseidel

Fiebiengs makes a product called colorless harness dressing. It is one of the best kept secrets in the business! It is a durable finish that seals out stains, protects the finish, seals dyes, and is not affected by water. It can be re-applied many times without noticable buildup, and dries to a satin finish. It protects nearly as well as laquer, but can be oiles through without stripping first. It is hard to find a supplier who stocks it, and takes some practice to learn to apply without streaking, but well worth the effort. Keith

JW, There are more thicknesses of leather under your leg in a flat plate versus an in-skirt. The skirt and skirt plug, as well as two thicknesses of flat plate rigging leather. An in-skirt has the thickness of the skirt and the rigging layer, and no more. No need for skirt plug or rigging liner. Also, only one thickness of leather outside the tree as opposed to two with flat plate. The photo from Jon shows a good rigging design, but I would advise combining the front and reat riggings together in one piece of leather. If constructed properly, I believe the in-skirt to be stronger and more comfortable than any other.I have specs on depth if you want more info. Keith

That punch is for cutting a buckle or ring "safe." That is the wear leather under a buckle or ring to keep the hardware and straps from wearing against and pinching the horse. Used largely on harness. Keith

Slot placement: don't cut the top slot too high. You don't want an opening straight down into the top of your stirrup leathers and exposing the bars of the tree. When installed, the seat should cover the fold of the stirrup leathers over the bars. The slots do not need to be as high as possible. Keith

Jon, Keith Gertsch has made most of my trees for about 25 years. I would be interested to know more about the trees you are making. Send me a personal message with more info. Keith

Laporte saddle trees are very different in compound than ralide. Much stronger and more rigid. They are available with a cable rigging molded into them. I don't have any experience building on them nor have I had occasion to repair one. Mark Howes from Double H Ranch saddle shop in Fort Collins CO developed the line and one of his sons is the mfgr. Ph # 970-482-6229.

Jon, The wood structure of the tree is certainly criticall to a superior tree. However, The rawhide encases the wood in a "shrink to fit" housing. It is not only a protective covering, but increases the strength of the wood greatly. There is less flex in the rawhide than the wood preventing the wood from flexing to the breaking point. I believe the real strength of the tree is relative to the strength of the rawhide. I have never seen a tree broken that the rawhide did not fail first; either scored and separated, or lacing worn out allowing the hide to come loose. As long as the hide stays intact, it is nearly impossible to break a tree under reasonable circumstances. Same seems to hold true to fiberglass trees, only the fiberglass does not seem to take as much stress unless layered heavily. As you mention, wood is a sculptable material, and reasonably available. I think that if a tree were to be made out of another solid material such as plastics or resins or a muriad of other modern materials, and then covered with a good rawhide covering, that we would also have an acceptable tree of comperable strength to wood. Injection molding trees is not a new idea, but the only one to make it into production is the LaPorte tree. Using strong enough materials that were lightweight, and would hold nails, screws, and glue have been previously too costly for the industry. We cowboys that make up this industry are not chemists and chemists are not horsemen. A co-op effort might someday produce a modern tree that will replace the traditional wood tree. Cost is another factor. Not many saddlemakers would be willing to pay double or triple for a "new" contemporary tree when they can buy the traditional for less. We saddlemakers are unique individuals that like to customize our trees to a shape and fit that we think is best, and this sets us apart from our competitors. A molded tree cannot be changed. Yet another complication. Many of you readers are from other industries and may have ideas worth pursuing. Keith

It has always impressed me how well trees endure abuse, even the poorly built ones! Sometimes a horse will be killed during a wreck and the tree will not break. I have seen horses take jerks from roped livestock that took months of therapy to restore the horse to health, and the saddle suffer no damage. For nearly twenty years, I kept a log of every saddle that I personally worked on that had a broken tree or had a tree that was damaged and required repair to resume normal use. In every single case, 100 percent, for nearly twenty years, hundreds of saddles, THE DAMAGE WAS CAUSED BY THE SADDLEMAKER!!! Some were custom made, some factory. Some were expensive, some cheap. Some were very well made by very reputable saddlemakers. In all cases, the rawhide had been cut thru or scored across the stress area eventually allowing the rawhide to separate and allow the wooden tree to break. Sometimes the lace was sanded or scratched off the outside surface. as time passed the rawhide shrank away and was no longer a tight case over the wood. When the stress is great enough to bend the farther than the wood can bear, it will break without the strength of the rawhide to keep it from bending too far. The same principle should apply to trees covered with fiberglass or bed liner. Conclusion: Saddlemakers, be careful! If you musr cut into a tree, be carefull not to score the hide. Even a little score can cause a break. When you ruff the hide to make the glue stick, do not scrape across the areas that endure stress. Use extra caution around the stirrup leather slots, under the gullet, under the cantle, and behind the swell at the bars.

Being a "traditionalist" saddlemaker, I have little experience with fiberglass trees. It is difficult to nail and screw into without doing damage to the fiberglass. It seems to crack and star much like a rock hitting a windshield. It is fairly heavy, nearly as heavy as rawhide. Some trees have a wrap of fiberglass around the bars over the rawhide, which would help protect the rawhide lace from wearing under the stirrup leathers. May also add some strength to a thin or narrow bar. Have also seen rawhide trees wrapped with fiberglass around the swell thru the gullet and horn area... also to add strength for thin swells under the horn. I don"t know how much strength this adds. Boat hulls are made from layered fiberglass over very little structure, leaving only the fiberglass to take the stresses of the water. Fiberglass trees are usually much less expensive than rawhide trees, many of which the ground seat is included. Carbon fiber trees, injection molded trees, laminated rubber bars, all are attempts to improve on rawhide covered wood trees. Making trees from materials other than wood and rawhide would remove the variable of possible inconsistent or inferior materials. Also reduce the amount of human error. Another part of the equation not yet discussed is the ideals we all have about what fits best and what does not work for us and our customers. Every treemaker and every saddlemaker has their own philosophy of proper shape and fit for both horse and rider. We do not have a good "apprenticeship" practice in our industry, and many beginning saddlemakers as well as tree makers lack the experience necessary to address problems and avoid serious errors. Our customers become test subjects for our experiments; most of which would be unnecessary with proper training and experience woring under a master. Coupled with the need to be competitive, it is difficult for an inexperienced person to be successful in this business. Keith

I've been watching this topic and waiting for someone to introduce fiberglass covering as comparison. We all had the same skeptical attitude about fiberglass several years ago when it first became popular and now it is a standard acceptable covering in the saddle business. Some are even rivaling the handmade trees for price. How does the bed liner material compare with fiberglass? Many treemakers use fiberglass in conjunction with rawhide.... Keith

Rob, The best veg tanned roo hide is made by Packers tannery in Australia. Charles Hardtke imports from them. He has supplied me with exceptional quality hides for several years. He can be reached at 915-590-0088. Talk to Peter Hardtke. Use me, Keith Seidel, as reference. He will sell you one hide if you want or large quantity. You can cut and bevel with the same equipment that you use for rawhide. How do you cut your strings now? Special characteristics of roo hide... It narrows as it stretches, and has a memory, so will tighten some as you braid if you pull all of the stretch out. Cut slightly wider strings. If you tell me you're desired finished width, I can advise you for extra cuting width. Keith

It has been my experience that freezing in itself does not do damage to leather. However, every year someone brings in a saddle that they over-oiled prior to storing in a freezing tack room. Oil, like other liquids, expands when frozen. Some oils much more than others. When over- saturated with oil, when the oil freezes and expands, it "tears" the fibers of the leather apart from the inside out. This leaves the leather soft and spongy and usually oozing and gooey on the outside. There is no way to repair this kind of damage. Keith

The rigging rings must be in the same position on each side of the horse relative to front an back. you can be off a bit up and down, but front to back must be under 1/4" difference. If the rigging is not nailed or screwed to the tree, it can move front to back causing the tree to "walk" on the horses back. Keith

I have seen them both one and two piece. The benifit to one piece is the ability to hold the straps centered. Both are as strong. I have also seen the straps fastened together like you show as well as both straps fastened to the ring individually. Keith

The correct way to make a sam stagg rigging is one piece strap cut from each end to the center leaving the strap full width in front of the saddle horn and about the width of the horn neck. One of the straps (usually wider) lays flat across the swell in front of the horn from ring to ring on each side. The other strap, still attached to the first, wraps around the horn and down to the same ring with first strap. Good luck, Keith

Doug, I stumbled onto your post about the Union Lock. I am interested in your machine. Can you tell me more info and send pics? Thanks, Keith