Martyn

and if the method was truly as weak as some say Stohlman saddles would not be around any more I dont think it's weak - perhaps a little weak-er by virtue of cutting into the grain, but not weak. I doubt it makes any functional difference. It's not the reason I suggest to not use them. It's simply that changes to your technique are destroyed/hidden by them, so you cant see your own mistakes and cant evaluate your own development. I'm just suggesting if you are practising on scrap, try practising without them. It is *very* revealing. If you can get a good, traditional saddle stitch going without them, then you can always use the groover and O/S wheel on your finished items if you prefer the look. It's easy to add a groove any time you want and easy to run an O/S wheel if you want to. In my case though, once I had cracked a decent saddle stitch without them, they went in the bin (not literally, there are still a few times when I would use them, but you know what I mean). The groove and O/S wheel is a fashion thing though. This is a Swiss army backpack that I have been restoring. The leatherwork is date stamped 1949, it's almost 70 years old. The pack has had a very hard life and seen some serious abuse - but the linen thread has held up fine, not a groove or O/S in sight, just plain saddle stitch all over... If you like the look of the O/S and groove, then fine, but it's absolutely not necessary. You almost never see it in European saddlery and there is plenty of old tack knocking around to prove it's not needed. It's a matter of personal taste, but personally, I would much rather see a good, traditional saddle stitch formed from good technique every time. Perhaps I'm feeling the bias because I've put a lot of effort into trying to do it myself, but to my eye, it's just so classy and if the stitching is good, it just seems a crime to force it to lay straight with a groove and crush the beauty out of it with a wheel. I don't subscribe the theory that Stohlman only said to use the groover and overstitch because Tandy was paying him to move tools... I agree, I doubt that was the reason. I suspect it was because he was pitching the guide at people who had little formal training and wanted to advise a method that gave them the best possible results for their skill level. The groover will keep the stitches straight and the O/S wheel will give them form. But neither do I think it's the gold standard. Good there is not right or wrong just that we each progress on our chosen path to a result we are pleased with. Absolutely. I'm not saying you or anyone *should* abandon the groover and O/S wheel for your finished items, it's a taste/fashion thing and whatever you like the look of, is all that matters. But when it comes to practice, if you practice without them, you will definitely challenge yourself. If you can get good without them, you'll be awesome with them and then you just pick what you like best. I know this has been posted a million times, but the guy just blows me away. The ease with which he can switch from left to right, front to back and any way up and his stitching is always bang on point.

The first thing I would say is that if you are trying to refine your saddle stitch technique, dont use a groove tool and overstitch wheel. For 99% of stuff they are completely unnecessary anyway, but the groove will force the stitch to run in a straight line and the overstitch wheel will mechanically override the natural lay of the stitch, making it almost impossible to gauge the effect of changes to your technique. I'm no expert by any means, but i have gone through an awful lot of scrap leather in the last few months just trying to get my technique down and it is worth the effort. There is no 'right' awl angle as such, you can adapt your sewing technique to suit whatever angle and direction you are sewing from, the trick is knowing what changes to make to maintain consistency. There is however a 'tradition' when it comes to angle. All the traditional pricking irons have the teeth angled in one direction. This is true for Dixons, Blanchard, Osborne or whoever and has been the same for a very, very long time. Basically, if you are sitting with the grain (front) of the leather to your right, then the angle of the stitch will be like this: / / / / / / / / / / / / / going away from you. If you are starting to sew from furthest away and working towards yourself, then cross the needles underneath, if you are starting close and stitching away, then cross the needles on top. You certainly can (should) get good angled stitches front and back and every stitch looking the same. But I would start by getting rid of the groove tool and overstitch wheel. They just interfere with the natural lay of the stitch and stop you perfecting your technique. Just use a very light scratch to mark your line and then go for it. It's a bit of a shock to the system at first, but let the stitch do it's thing and if you get it right, it will form it's own pattern... All my stitches look like this on the front now. The back does tend to lay flatter (without throwing a cast), but you can help get an angle there with how you hold the thread when you are passing the needle back through. If you tend to hold the thread up and away when passing the second needle back through, try holding it down and towards you. Also when tensioning the stitch, try pulling up and away with the left needle and down and towards you with the right needle. These two things definitely help put some angle into the back, but the best by far is to throw a cast loop onto the back. If you do that, you are guaranteed to get a good angle front and back every time.

Yeah, exactly that. You will have to cut the knot off and tuck one of the ends through. It's more secure if you backstitch - I figured out when you come to reverse direction, if you pass one needle through, pass it over the other thread and then back through the hole, you make a sort of lock stitch and can then backstitch as normal without messing up the two-tone pattern. But yes, starting and ending is a bit problematic. If you come up with a better way than the backstitch, please let me know.

A saddle stitch is a double running stitch, so which is stronger, a single running stitch or a double running stitch? The answer is self-explanatory I think.

4 Petals Leather Stamp Tool R452

Looks good, good job. It's late here too (early?) so I'll read it tomorrow, the pictures make all the difference though.

Food grade linseed oil will still polymerise, it's just going to take months rather than days or weeks. If you really want control over the mix, you can get all sorts of high grade linseed oild from Windsor & Newton... You can get refined linseed oil, linseed stand oil, drying linseed oil, cold pressed linseed oil, thickened linseed oil etc... You can also get various qualities of boiled linseed oil, some have additives to speed drying, some dont. Liberon BLO for example, has just had air passed through it to accelerate drying times. Others like the W&N thickened linseed oil have been super heated for the same purpose.

Yes, that is displaying properly. I'm using firefox on windows 7 home premium (links are broken in chrome too). If you are seeing images in your older posts, I think you asre seeing cached images. Clear your browser cache and it's my bet you will see the stop sign. Interestingly your non-displaying image links terminate with... =w640-h480-no while the one that displays terminates with... =w640-h480-no&key=802effcce77dc2b3bb281b234fe1f57339fd2766e2d901edb31d8d7f77113528

This is a fascinating thread - it'd be great if you could sort the pictures out? The forum software is rendering an image as it should and google is serving an image, but that image is a white block with a greyed out stop sign, which would generally mean it's either a blocked image or a link to a non-existent or moved image. Even when viewed as an external link it's still blocked/stopped/broken... https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/i_Q90a27xCZOHC8WLZ5NIkecjDYk3vLn2_xbVBFsO4wVdzRQBrlraWrlmy7JlhwoEcpBWFUqMa-_0u0PRJrVDdQ-UKkijoqkwWfrhmiunWfMNn01fbHYyE_zAbSp850_dcIyJaMYHCrFbPwdYdb9cp6nmeQyjX6XYnZlsctIPUMxMd-UBT02Uf9JVm2IZycEBp3KP8MciuVyZKQcRP_ii88V6eCNS-k0gHOgeXA8C9AcV6iTxMGEhxXGiTIELMDvuUCxprXDlondAgbBdwoQr4a_RWguh1qPrp18tqQY-bqeg6pVyJ7yCcWMkcQgiMkWRdnYBWeKWC59CDucB-tMxCR3us_POx3HFUnxA1e6t_1-d2dT2erZvcBsKUYisA2Mwla5lrCLABPPfCGrjsh9a5NGHpLos9ddWV45V3MyVnBWVSQT1jAkCH4-QvB6tktbDPs2YgdqlDMtzYCNw98nNSHn0OJiXFbuCY-46Hcia7HWxERlCm-ysxxVJEKfVz9uid2ljUjXpNY1Sd4wumbhPOCcX2GHgcRFD5G9jFPpJSHFhCydA0Mz6T5Joe8tbUCVjUS_=w640-h480-no ...which means the problem is with your image hosting, not the forum software. If you look at the very end of the link above, it defines display parameters... =w640-h480-no ...the '-no' at the end suggests a permissions issue perhaps?

I'm not saying it's not good value for money, but I'd pay 10x that for a video.

You could use Resolene, I use it on the inside of sheaths. If you want a really heavy duty coating, you could paint the flesh side with rubber contact cement and let it dry completely.

I've just sewn a couple of simple finger-sized tubes out of deer hide to slip over my pinkies. Works great.

Yeah I know, I made a waterproofing wax for canvas recently that was 1 part beeswax, 1 part turpentine (the real stuff) and 1 part boiled linseed oil. I used it on a canvas rucksack and am really impressed with the results. It took about 10 days to fully cure, but the end result is really good. I was talking with spectre6000 recently and he's had really good results with linseed oil in his oil experiments here: I've always avoided using it on leather because it polymerises and I assumed it would stiffen the leather, but I'm curious now. I'm going to make up a couple of small batches of wax with different recipes and test them on swatches.

Thanks Tom, that's a good start. This is the MPB-ish recipe... Leather Waterproofing 4 oz. beeswax 4 oz. resin or rosin (music stores carry) 1 pint vegetable oil Melt the solids in the oil, and apply while warm. It's a good starting point. If I switch out the veg oil for mink oil, I should be on the right track. I might also try a batch with linseed oil too. It's a very oil heavy blend, in ratios it's... 1 part beeswax 1 part resin 5 parts oil

Bump. Anyone?

Avoiding cracks will be the main issue. If trees are felled when the sap is rising, then they can blow themselves apart with sap pressure. If that doesnt happen, they can still crack when they're drying. It can be harder than it sounds just getting a nice, solid section of tree. Still, you've got nothing to lose. Give it a go. Take a friend though, a foot wide section 30 inches long will be very heavy. I got a section of birch a few years back as a stand for my anvil, it was a maul getting it into my truck. I debarked it and planed the ends, it was nice. A couple of weeks later it had split in half drying, I could have cried. Still, If it doesnt work out you can always go to a yard and buy one.

That'll be fine. I agree with the above but just to add... ..the middle row was done using a 4mm chisel, approx 6 stitches per inch, the left half with 0.8mm thread, the right half 1.0mm thread. Either is fine.

I'm interested in trying Montana Pitch Blend wax but it's not available in the UK and shipping/tax from the US makes it ridiculously expensive. I believe it's a blend of beeswax, mink oil and pine pitch/resin. I have the ingredients to make something similar myself but have no idea of the proportions? Does anyone have a recipe? Thanks, Martyn.

It's very interesting. I was hesitant to use untested formulas on my backpack as the stitching is 70 years old as well as the leather and canvas. I think you've inspired me to make a few of my own test swatches with different recipes. I'm surprised you haven't seen some loss of pliability with linseed though. It's hard to imagine something that oxidises into a plastic-like polymer doesn't change the feel of the leather. I dont use IE, I used Netscape Navigator back in the day and firefox for the last x years. I also never put pictures into a forum database. I host them externally in photobucket for exactly this reason.

Thanks, that is very helpful. Re linseed oil, did you use boiled or raw? I was reading about one chap who was trying to make oilcloth with raw linseed alone and he said it took a couple of months for the oil to oxidise/polymerise fully. What kind of time frame did your experiments cover? Your photos dont show up for me in your chemistry thread BTW.

Hey, I'm quite happy to be wrong. But I am trying to learn too, so some explanation of why I'm wrong would be nice.

That's exactly what I do. I've never actually not been able to do it. I dont know why it doesnt work for you, but photobucket images embed without issue for me. Test...

Well for example, I was stitching for a while and couldn't figure out why the back didnt look quite right. It was only through watching NA's video, I realised I was casting my loop over the needle, instead of under. I discovered whether you cast over, or under depends on whether you are stitching left hand priority or right hand priority and whether you are stitching towards you or away from you. Being able to swap left to right, front to back at will without affecting the stitch doesn't just require practice, it requires that you understand exactly how your actions affect the stitch, like if you are trying to tie a square knot and get the crossovers wrong, you end up with a granny knot. If you know all that already, great. If you don't (and I didn't), then I'd still be struggling without the help of these videos.

It depends on the skill level and confidence you have. Lets take saddle stitching as an example, if you can do it, all you have to say is 'sew along this line'. If you cant do it, an hour long video on the subject barely touches the surface. Anything I can do today is a direct result of people showing me how to do it on youtube and I'm grateful to all of them. My saddle stitching now is fairly good I think, but I would hardly be able to do it at all if it wasn't for the videos from the likes of Ian Atkinson and Nigel Armitage and others. When I watch the same videos today, them seem to be full of waffle, but I still pick things up and the first time I watched them, I hung on every word. If the video's irritate you, dont watch them, it's that simple. But I would encourage everyone with a camera and something to say, to make them. Good or bad, makes no difference. Motive is irrelevant. Youtube isn't short of bandwidth. The good ones will get recommended and passed along, the bad ones will slip away into obscurity. You also have to remember that the most skilled leather worker, might be the worlds worst teacher and video producer. You dont have to be smart, computer literate and eloquent to be good with leather. I want to learn from all of them and I'm grateful to all of them who take the time to make the videos, post instructionals (and share templates), whatever the motive or quality, It's all good.

I have to agree. When you know nothing at all and are self-learning with no mentor, these long winded videos on simple subjects are very useful. Yes, once you have some experience, then they sound like they are full of unnecessary waffle, but I would suggest that the videos are not aimed at the experienced. Perhaps those with experience could remember that they were novices once too and find a little tolerance from somewhere. I personally domt care what the motive for making them might be, whether it's self-promotion, ego-stroking or just a genuine desire to help others, it makes no difference to me so long as I'm learning, I appreciate the effort they all make.