Sinabroks Chisels?

[MtlBiker]

11 hours ago, dans79 said:

Your using a larger needle than you need to, and that's making your life a little harder than it needs to be. 0.8mm will work fine with a #3 needle, and with a little finagling you can even get it to work with a #4.

with regards to the Sinabroks, they are wider at the tip than other french style irons if memory serves. French irons should by nature require a little more force as they are flat at the tip while diamonds form a point. 
  

Thanks very much!  I don't remember where I found the info but it did recommend a 001 needle for 0.8 Tiger thread.  I will give it a try with a smaller needle.  And thanks for letting me know that it's expected to need a little more force with these irons.  The hole is certainly smaller and neater than what the Craftools Pro chisels produce.  And less distortion of the leather.

Interesting though about the needle sizes... you suggest using a #3 needle but according to the John James size guide, the 003 is exactly the same as the 001...  Only the 004 is smaller.  Doesn't make a lot of sense to me (that 1-3 needles are identical).

[dans79]

The eyelet  inner and outer sizes are different. That effects how easy it is to get the needle and the thread immediate next to the needle through the leather.

[Tugadude]

One thing to keep in mind is the idea behind the making of the holes.  It is commonly misunderstood.  The tines only need to be somewhat sharp at the tip.  The sides don't need to be sharp, just smooth.  The concept is that the iron pierces the leather and then opens up a hole, not cuts a hole.  If the tine cuts the leather then you end up with a slit and that slit won't want to close up.  What you really want is for the tool to pierce the leather, stretch it in order to make a hole and then after the thread goes into the hole it can close around it.  This happens by itself, but can be helped along by tapping the stitch line with a smooth-faced hammer.

I see projects all the time where the thread is on the small side and the holes are on the large side and they stick out like a sore thumb.  That's not the look you want to achieve.  

The same applies to awls, they should be sharp at the tip but polished on the edges.  if they are razor sharp all along the edge, you will be cutting a hole that same size.  Not what you want in most cases.

[MtlBiker]

11 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

One thing to keep in mind is the idea behind the making of the holes.  It is commonly misunderstood.  The tines only need to be somewhat sharp at the tip.  The sides don't need to be sharp, just smooth.  The concept is that the iron pierces the leather and then opens up a hole, not cuts a hole.  If the tine cuts the leather then you end up with a slit and that slit won't want to close up.  What you really want is for the tool to pierce the leather, stretch it in order to make a hole and then after the thread goes into the hole it can close around it.  This happens by itself, but can be helped along by tapping the stitch line with a smooth-faced hammer.

I see projects all the time where the thread is on the small side and the holes are on the large side and they stick out like a sore thumb.  That's not the look you want to achieve.  

The same applies to awls, they should be sharp at the tip but polished on the edges.  if they are razor sharp all along the edge, you will be cutting a hole that same size.  Not what you want in most cases.

Thank you.  I guess the tine tips are "somewhat" sharp.  Certainly not sharp enough to cut your finger, even if you press quite hard.  With enough mallet pressure they do make a very neat hole/slit though.  And I'm sure that my stitching quality is going to improve with more practice.  This is a test piece I stitched last night after using the new irons.

 

[MtlBiker]

25 minutes ago, dans79 said:

The eyelet  inner and outer sizes are different. That effects how easy it is to get the needle and the thread immediate next to the needle through the leather.

Gee, you'd think that they (JJ) would say that.  I will give the 003 needles a try though.  I just remembered that back in February as I placed my order for each of the sizes, I asked them this question:

Quote

Another question... am I mistaken or are your harness needles in sizes 1, 2 and 3 identical?  If so, why the different number?

I got an answer back from Ben at John James:

Quote

In terms of the same sizes but different numbers, i think it's always been like that but i'm unsure why

I guess the bottom line is that... Confusion reins supreme! 

 

[Tugadude]

Your stitching is looking very nice.

[dans79]

keep in mind JJ needles are fairly cheap and made in china! In the past I've wondered if sizes #1 through #3 aren't just quality control binning, because you need meteorology equipment or a good loop to tell the difference. Not to mention i have some #3s that look bigger than #2s.

I've thought about picking up some System S+U needles that are made in Germany, as they have a more diverse size range. However they are 2.5 to 3 times more expensive than JJ needles, and seem much harder to find in the states.

Here is a photo I found showing the size range of System S+U needles.

Edited May 26, 2022 by dans79

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Tugadude said:

One thing to keep in mind is the idea behind the making of the holes.  It is commonly misunderstood.  The tines only need to be somewhat sharp at the tip.  The sides don't need to be sharp, just smooth.  The concept is that the iron pierces the leather and then opens up a hole, not cuts a hole.  If the tine cuts the leather then you end up with a slit and that slit won't want to close up.  What you really want is for the tool to pierce the leather, stretch it in order to make a hole and then after the thread goes into the hole it can close around it.  This happens by itself, but can be helped along by tapping the stitch line with a smooth-faced hammer.

I see projects all the time where the thread is on the small side and the holes are on the large side and they stick out like a sore thumb.  That's not the look you want to achieve.  

The same applies to awls, they should be sharp at the tip but polished on the edges.  if they are razor sharp all along the edge, you will be cutting a hole that same size.  Not what you want in most cases.

yes what happens if your tines/awl  are sharp on the edges then if you have to wiggle it to get it out it cuts the holes larger.

21 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

I just received the Sinabroks chisels I ordered 3 weeks ago...  4mm, 1-, 2-, 4- and 8-prong.  They're certainly beautiful to look at and came in nice padded boxes.  I don't have anything here at my work to try them on so will have to wait until I get home to some leather and a poundo pad.  But my first impression (other than the great looks) is that they're really not very sharp.  I'll have to see how they work when I hit them on leather using a mallet but they're certainly not as sharp as my Craftools Pro chisels.  Maybe they're going to work just fine but I really expected them to be a lot sharper.

gotta wonder how much those boxes cost you.

[chuck123wapati]

14 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

 

(When I say I wiggled the first needle, I mean that I first take a needle from the right and put it in the hole, wiggle it a bit along the same axis as the hole, and remove the needle.  This is done just to locate the hole and make it easier for the needle from the left to pass through.  Then in the same hole, I take my first right needle and pull it through.  I'm a beginner and I'm not sure that I'm doing it right or even that I'm explaining it correctly.)

 There are many correct ways to do it but that's how its done in my house. I like a thread to fill the hole and that takes some work that way sometimes.

[MtlBiker]

13 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

gotta wonder how much those boxes cost you.

WAY too much!  That's for sure.

But they're really nice and feel like solid quality tools.  Buy once, cry once.

8 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

 There are many correct ways to do it but that's how its done in my house. I like a thread to fill the hole and that takes some work that way sometimes.

I'm glad that it appears I'm doing it right.  Now I just need lots of practice.