what type of thread

[Rickard]

hello folks, i have a durkop adler 370-205 that can use tread up to 1 mm range. i was thinking making some ww1 stuff and the proxamently 1 mm [ no 10 euro seize] bounded nylon thread i use  just dont look good an it frince alot to. i can put on wax and it looks a little better but still am not satisfied. i know that at around early 1900 and forward ww2 many machine used linnen tread but its weak and mine snapps right off so i have abounded that one. what kind of tread do you folk use? 

[Constabulary]

What WW1 stuff do you sew - "stuff" can mean a lot!? Maybe try - Hoogen Linen Thread (like #4 or #5), it was used for sewing shoe soles. I´m using it for sewing 9-10mm thick leather handles sometimes when restoring record field chests and the like.

Other than than check GRUSCHWITZ linen threads - check the last 2 files in the list:

https://www.gruschwitz.com/en/products/standard-products.html

Edited May 26, 2022 by Constabulary

[Matt S]

Is that a Durkopp--Adler 205-370? 1mm thread should be fine in that machine, but is towards the upper end. Most leather was sewn with linen before the middle of the 20th century. I have sewn a fair bit of linen by hand and by machine, and would say that it's only "weak" when it's dry or old. However few machines are designed or setup for sewing linen these days, and all my experience machining it is on machines designed for linen from the beginning (Singer 45K, BUSM #6 etc.). You might need to get fresher thread, change your needle size or adjust your tension to sew with linen.

If you're looking for more of a linen look that sews a little easier through modern machines we have something called "core spun" cotton/poly over here -- a polyester core with cotton spun around it. Readily available, works well and cheap.

This chart is useful, it gives a largely accurate cross-reference for thread sizes in various measuring systems (including millimetres) and approximate needle sizes to try with each size of thread. https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

From that chart we can see that a TKT10 nylon thread is roughly 0.6mm diameter, equivalent size to a 18/4 linen thread (English lea system) and recommends that you start with a size nm200 machine needle. You may need to go up or down one or even two sizes from there depending on results in your leather, with your particular thread and machine, and depending what effect you want.

[Constabulary]

22 minutes ago, Matt S said:

and would say that it's only "weak" when it's dry or old

:::::::::::::::::::::

You might need to get fresher thread, change your needle size or adjust your tension to sew with linen.

thats what I forgot to mention 

[Rickard]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:17 PM, Constabulary said:

What WW1 stuff do you sew - "stuff" can mean a lot!? Maybe try - Hoogen Linen Thread (like #4 or #5), it was used for sewing shoe soles. I´m using it for sewing 9-10mm thick leather handles sometimes when restoring record field chests and the like.

Other than than check GRUSCHWITZ linen threads - check the last 2 files in the list:

https://www.gruschwitz.com/en/products/standard-products.html

hi,  thanx for your tip.  the stuff i was planning to sew was a german bajonet frog and and a copple german field shovel covers.maybe later some frence field gear. i think the problem is that the 205-307 is so strong that none of the linnen thread will do, but i also my be wrong. maybe i should ask one of those who own a 205-307 if they have eny experience with this stuff.

[Rickard]

On 5/26/2022 at 4:26 PM, Matt S said:

Is that a Durkopp--Adler 205-370? 1mm thread should be fine in that machine, but is towards the upper end. Most leather was sewn with linen before the middle of the 20th century. I have sewn a fair bit of linen by hand and by machine, and would say that it's only "weak" when it's dry or old. However few machines are designed or setup for sewing linen these days, and all my experience machining it is on machines designed for linen from the beginning (Singer 45K, BUSM #6 etc.). You might need to get fresher thread, change your needle size or adjust your tension to sew with linen.

If you're looking for more of a linen look that sews a little easier through modern machines we have something called "core spun" cotton/poly over here -- a polyester core with cotton spun around it. Readily available, works well and cheap.

This chart is useful, it gives a largely accurate cross-reference for thread sizes in various measuring systems (including millimetres) and approximate needle sizes to try with each size of thread. https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

From that chart we can see that a TKT10 nylon thread is roughly 0.6mm diameter, equivalent size to a 18/4 linen thread (English lea system) and recommends that you start with a size nm200 machine needle. You may need to go up or down one or even two sizes from there depending on results in your leather, with your particular thread and machine, and depending what effect you want.

hi, yes you are right its a 205-307 and thanx for your tip. i did try adjust the tension and different needle sizes but it didnt help. both 1 mm linnen thread with wax and without. i think i have the wrong machine to use real linnen thread but it would possible work with the singer 45k and the like. offcourse it would be wery cool to use real linnen thread on the project but for me its more importen that the tread loocks like it is a some sort ofold fasion  linnen tread if you know what i mean. thanx for your links to.

[Matt S]

@Rickard Sorry for the late reply. A few thoughts occur to me.

The 205 was designed when synthetic rather than linen threads were common. I've not tried to sew linen thread with such a modern machine (having several older ones available which do the job very well). Nothing jumps out at me to say that a more modern machine can't sew linen, it's just that I've never tried it if you see what I'm saying. Perhaps there is something subtly different about how more modern machines are constructed that make them unsuitable for linen. A 45K would do admirably, linen is what they wre designed for!

If your linen is very close to 1mm diameter a 205 probably isn't going to like it. That's pretty common for modern, hobbyist hand-sewers but way off the heavy end of machine threads. I've got one of the heaviest closed-eye-needle harness stitchers commonly available, which maxes out around 18/8 linen, roughly metric/TKT 5 (v554), and even that's only 0.8mm diameter. I've just looked at the original prospekt, 205s are/were designed for needles in the range nm160-230, which indicates a thread size range of roughly TKT20-TKT8. In linen this would be roughly 25/3 to 18/5 (0.4-0.65mm).

Also you mention wax. As I'm sure you're aware sewing with dry linen is a tough row to hoe. It has a lot of friction, fluffs and frays, doesn't stick to itself in the stitch, absorbs water in use, and is quite weak. Sewing machines setup for linen either wet the thread with a liquid wax solution as it's being used, or has a heated wax bath for the same purpose. Prewaxed thread is generally too "sticky" so what few machines were ever designed to use it heated the thread as it was being used. If it sounds messy, that's cos it is. A 205 isn't setup for any of these arrangements, though you could add a solution box and fill that with liquid wax or thread lube. They stick on the top of your machine with a magnet.

Linen can be a real hassle to machine sew with. Get it all right and it looks beautiful. Core-spun looks very similar for a fraction the ballache! ;-)

[Rickard]

Thanks alot for your contributions, it highlight the trubble and the sulotion i think is to use a tread that loocks closest to the linnen tread. It is also nice to learn a little leatherwork history aswell, many thanks.

[jimi]

On 6/6/2022 at 12:38 PM, Rickard said:

Thanks alot for your contributions, it highlight the trubble and the sulotion i think is to use a tread that loocks closest to the linnen tread. It is also nice to learn a little leatherwork history aswell, many thanks.

Hi Rickard, did you try not going around the tension disk 1 1/2 times??? this helped me on a 45k.