Camouflage and Viener

[Davm]

First, I've asked a lot of questions as a newbie so THANKS everyone for the help, really do appreciate it.  You have to carve a few things, look at it, analyze it and ask yourself, "why doesn't this look as good as a lot of the other work I see?"  One problem I am having is curved stems or scrolls.  A camouflage stamp seems too much of an arc but the Tandy book says to use that stamp and angle it.  The veiner seems similar but if used mostly for leaf veins?  As a general rule, for a curved stem, how far across do you have the stamp mark and how far across the pear shading? Do you usually stamp the outside of the curve about half way across and pear shade the balance?  Maybe every job is its own boss, there are no "rules". Thanks for any comments.  Do you have a variety of veiner and camouflage so the tool matches the work?

And, as I think about it, if you stamp the outside curve of the stem with a camouflage stamp an then bevel it,  right now my beveling seems to be obliterating the camouflage stamp- to a degree.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Davm

[chuck123wapati]

I have heck with this as well. I'm np pro by any means but here is my understanding for what its worth.

Yes you need multiple sizes so they match the size of your work. Stohlmans patterns are excellent but you need to remember he made them to match the size of tool so if you change the size of the pattern you need to change the size of the tools also. you also change the sizes as the scroll or stem gets smaller or larger. the camo stamps arc gives the impression of roundness in the stem while the veiner does so also at a lesser degree but also for texture purposes on the leaves and such. the pear shader is for creating a three dimensional look through shadow effect on the leather, it creates a shadow making your eye see dimension. Every job is its own boss and rules are minimal. If you would post a few pics we could see better what you are worried about. 

[kseidel]

To reference your beveling question, All of your beveling should be done before any decorative stamps are used. (ie: cams, veins, liners, mule tracks, etc.)  You can use cams with or without flutes, or veiners usually fluted, for decorating the swirls.  Studying the work of others will give you several options.  Keith

[battlemunky]

@kseidel, those examples hurt my sensibilities how good they are. Man is it well executed! I'm not a huge fan of traditional western carving but when it is excellent, it's impossible not to appreciate it.

[dikman]

Damn, Keith, that is so beautiful it hurts my eyes!!!! Makes my effort seems so........inadequate.

[Davm]

Beautiful work, A-1. Thanks on the beveling.  The Tandy book, which I'm starting to  l realize was for beginners, has it the other way but it didn't make sense.  On pear shading, is it the same? The book had the stamp but if you stamp and then shade, the shade takes out some of the stamp mark.

I saw a "you tube" where there was atool to sort of under cut the edge of a flower, etc. to make it stand out more. I think it might have been just for a particular part of a bend, curve, etc.

[chuck123wapati]

22 hours ago, kseidel said:

To reference your beveling question, All of your beveling should be done before any decorative stamps are used. (ie: cams, veins, liners, mule tracks, etc.)  You can use cams with or without flutes, or veiners usually fluted, for decorating the swirls.  Studying the work of others will give you several options.  Keith

the best in Wyoming !!! just for an bench mark for us beginners how many years have you been tooling? I know at 63 i will never get this good.

[dikman]

8 hours ago, Davm said:

Beautiful work, A-1. Thanks on the beveling.  The Tandy book, which I'm starting to  l realize was for beginners, has it the other way but it didn't make sense.  On pear shading, is it the same? The book had the stamp but if you stamp and then shade, the shade takes out some of the stamp mark.

I saw a "you tube" where there was atool to sort of under cut the edge of a flower, etc. to make it stand out more. I think it might have been just for a particular part of a bend, curve, etc.

I think that tool is a lifter, used to give a more pronounced 3D effect under parts of the petals.

[kseidel]

6 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

the best in Wyoming !!! just for an bench mark for us beginners how many years have you been tooling? I know at 63 i will never get this good.

You are very kind!  I started in the leather business in 1976.  Bought my first stitcher in 78, built my first saddle in 79.  I made saddles for years before doing any stamping.  Learned to stamp from Billy Gardner in 1985.  It feels like forever at this point, but I have been stamping for 37 years!  The important thing to remember is that I have made my living in this business full time for all those years.  It takes a LOT of hours of stamping and constant study to improve to develop this level of skills.  Thanks for the compliments.  Keith

[Davm]

Thanks on the lifter.

[Davm]

Kseidel: I've been studying your work.  I think I am overdoing it with too many decorative cuts, too much stamping. Like the girl that puts on too much make up. Probably most beginners do the same thing. Your work has less but looks 100% better.  There is a 3d effect on the pear shading.  On the darker tones- stamp deeper or burnish the area more or a little of both?  Your stems have a rounded, natural effect and mine are flat with beveled edges. My leaves look the same, a flat leaf with pear shading on the inside and then a bevel around the perimeter of the leaf with a flat body.   How do you get that rounded effect? Work the area with a stylus? I realize it takes years to develop your level of work.  Once again, your work is outstanding?  

[kseidel]

Davm,  Some pics would help to troubleshoot your work.  There are a lot of variables, but I can probably give you some useful pointers if you can post a few pics of your work.  Keith

[Davm]

I'll see if can figure out how. I am sort of behind the times on some computer stuff.  Last night I practiced on some scraps and practiced on some scraps using the spoon end of the stylus and I did get a more rounded look.  I also tried the bevel, then stamp in certain areas and that was a big improvement.  The other thing I did, I was using the swivel knife to make all the cuts- still do that, but then did ALL the camouflage stamping for the whole works, then all the pear shading for the whole thing, etc.  Last night I did just one small area until that was what I wanted and then moved over to the next area and that seemed to work better for me. In any event I realize it is okay to think outside the box.  I practice a lot on scraps until it is about as good as I can do and then do an actual belt or holster.

[kseidel]

Davm,

Most of what you are dealing with most likely is relative to leather temper.  Casing leather and getting the right temper for stamping can be challenging!  Then add that different stamps need different temper and you are well on your way into the  rabbit hole!  The specific stamps you are using will also have an impact on the final look.  I do not use a modeling spoon on any of my floral carving.  Only swivel knife, and stamping tools.

[Davm]

Thanks. I already discovered that the temper of leather for a swivel knife is different than for the stamping I've done so I guess a lot of this is putting in the time.  I am actually keeping notes of what I have done that looks okay or nor okay. Some of it is by pure accident, I'll look at something I've done and if it looks pretty good- I'll immediately write down what I just did so I don't forget how I did it.  In any event, I'm having a lot of fun which is the whole thing if you are a newbie/hobbyist.  One thing I've noticed is at first I had no idea what I was doing.  Now I look at other examples of good carving and I can tell more what is being done and why it looks better.  So...a certain amount of careful studying is worthwhile.  I'll bet most newbies such as myself "overdo it". Too much stamping, decorative cuts, etc. in a haphazard manner when a careful analysis and making less marks but well made and well placed marks is at least one key. I'm learning that good carving considers a flow and that is very important.