Direct drive vs Belt drive

[Mannatee]

What are the main differences and or advantage/disadvantages of a direct drive vs belt drive industrial sewing machine? My concern is the quality and reliability of a direct drive since the motor is so compacted. 

[Wizcrafts]

A direct drive motor has a minimum of slack before it engages or disengages, vs a belt driven external motor. The head will be heavier due to the inclusion of the motor, This type of drive mates better to position sensors than a belt driven motor.

The negative is the extra cost of a proprietary motor and the complication of replacing it if it fails. The entire head may need to be returned to an authorized service center.

I have tried out the Adler 868 with a built in motor and it had a very positive feel and solid response to my foot position. It also cost many thousands of dollars.

Am I right in guessing you are looking at the Adlers sold by Weaver Leather? Do you have a long line of credit, or are you a lottery winner?

[Garyak]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

A direct drive motor has a minimum of slack before it engages or disengages, vs a belt driven external motor. The head will be heavier due to the inclusion of the motor, This type of drive mates better to position sensors than a belt driven motor.

The negative is the extra cost of a proprietary motor and the complication of replacing it if it fails. The entire head may need to be returned to an authorized service center.

I have tried out the Adler 868 with a built in motor and it had a very positive feel and solid response to my foot position. It also cost many thousands of dollars.

Am I right in guessing you are looking at the Adlers sold by Weaver Leather? Do you have a long line of credit, or are you a lottery winner?

I am Wiz, but I gotta win that lotto… 969! On a mission….. 

[kgg]

15 hours ago, Mannatee said:

What are the main differences and or advantage/disadvantages of a direct drive vs belt drive industrial sewing machine? My concern is the quality and reliability of a direct drive since the motor is so compacted. 

The main advantages as I see it:

i) they are cheaper for the manufacturer to manufacturer as it will require less parts.

ii) may provide a less machine vibration over a belt driven machine.

iii) may provide a small amount of increase in response for startup and slow down since the motor is bolted directly to the drive shaft.

The main disadvantages as I see it:

i) motor replacement is probably going be specific and limited to fitting that manufacturers machine.

ii) speed reduction / torque / motor wattage will be limited to what the manufacturer determines is best suited (cheapest) for that machine.

iii) more electronics to fail.

iv) probably going to be harder and limited in finding replacement parts later down the road as the machine ages.

My concerns are:

i) repair / replacement costs.

ii) long term dependability of the motor and other internal parts

iii) are these going to be like our vehicles where it just as well they welded the hood shut since you will need special tools to figure out what is defective.

What I find misleading is some of the advertising say they are more efficient at saving 40 - 60 percent of electrical costs. Is that number as compared to clutch motors or existing servo motors of the same wattage??? To me they make it sound like it is over the belt driven servo motors.

kgg

[Cumberland Highpower]

A direct drive machine is a disaster if you're Amish....Real hard to mount an air motor.     Of course they seem to be able to punch out a hole in any machine and bolt on a pulley one way or another eventually.

If you're looking at a good quality machine I wouldn't worry too much.   Motors last a LONG time.   If you wear a motor out, you've made enough money with the machine you can justify purchasing a new replacement.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Cumberland Highpower

[Cumberland Highpower]

On 8/29/2022 at 9:54 PM, Garyak said:

I am Wiz, but I gotta win that lotto… 969! On a mission….. 

I just cant make up my mind on the 969 series.

I  have a hard time getting used to the Eco's jog wheel, not really fine enough control compared to grasping a big handwheel/flywheel.  I really like the direct drive though-smooth and powerful.

The Pure model has a somewhat uncomfortable flywheel/handwheel that from what I have seen has a wobble when it rotates.  (maybe just the couple I've seen in use, I don't know) I also find the flywheel to be too far away from the business end of the machine. Ergonomically less than ideal?  (I find the old Randall stitchers have the best flywheel placement of any heavy stitcher.)

I really think a brand new Juki 441 made in Japan at @6-7k would be a better purchase than the 969 Pure?  Could probably set it up with a positioner and still have a less expensive machine?

Edited August 31, 2022 by Cumberland Highpower

[Mannatee]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:43 AM, kgg said:

The main advantages as I see it:

i) they are cheaper for the manufacturer to manufacturer as it will require less parts.

ii) may provide a less machine vibration over a belt driven machine.

iii) may provide a small amount of increase in response for startup and slow down since the motor is bolted directly to the drive shaft.

The main disadvantages as I see it:

i) motor replacement is probably going be specific and limited to fitting that manufacturers machine.

ii) speed reduction / torque / motor wattage will be limited to what the manufacturer determines is best suited (cheapest) for that machine.

iii) more electronics to fail.

iv) probably going to be harder and limited in finding replacement parts later down the road as the machine ages.

My concerns are:

i) repair / replacement costs.

ii) long term dependability of the motor and other internal parts

iii) are these going to be like our vehicles where it just as well they welded the hood shut since you will need special tools to figure out what is defective.

What I find misleading is some of the advertising say they are more efficient at saving 40 - 60 percent of electrical costs. Is that number as compared to clutch motors or existing servo motors of the same wattage??? To me they make it sound like it is over the belt driven servo motors.

kgg

I also wonder about the same thing in regards to the energy saving aspect -- it does seem misleading. I've also read that the direct drive (with servo motor) reduces vibration and noise but how much reduction are we talking about as compared to a v-belt drive (with servo motor)? I've never owned an industrial machine, so I'm swimming in uncharted water here. I'm interested in getting a Juki 2 needle machine and the ones that come with direct drive, auto-thread trimmer and control panel are 2k more and I just don't know if it's worth the extra cost. 

[Mannatee]

On 8/29/2022 at 4:52 PM, Wizcrafts said:

A direct drive motor has a minimum of slack before it engages or disengages, vs a belt driven external motor. The head will be heavier due to the inclusion of the motor, This type of drive mates better to position sensors than a belt driven motor.

The negative is the extra cost of a proprietary motor and the complication of replacing it if it fails. The entire head may need to be returned to an authorized service center.

I have tried out the Adler 868 with a built in motor and it had a very positive feel and solid response to my foot position. It also cost many thousands of dollars.

Am I right in guessing you are looking at the Adlers sold by Weaver Leather? Do you have a long line of credit, or are you a lottery winner?

I wish I was a lotto winner. I'm trying to get a Juki 2 needle machine but the ones that come with a direct drive is another 2k extra (also comes with a auto thread trimmer and control panel). So, trying to decide if it's worth it. 

[kgg]

3 minutes ago, Mannatee said:

I also wonder about the same thing in regards to the energy saving aspect -- it does seem misleading.

Servo motors are about 40 to 60 percent more efficient then a clutch motor and a awful lot quieter.

 

5 minutes ago, Mannatee said:

I'm interested in getting a Juki 2 needle machine and the ones that come with direct drive, auto-thread trimmer and control panel are 2k more and I just don't know if it's worth the extra cost. 

I like to keep my setups simple as possible. Sewing Machine, Drive Motor, Table. The additional cost of $2,000 is the cost of another good machine. The control panel maybe a costly part to replace down the road if it can be had.

kgg

[dikman]

Exactly my thoughts too, kgg. Realistically, I don't see any benefit, in what we do, in having a direct-drive sewing machine.