Bonded nylon or polyester

[Burkhardt]

Not sure if I put this in the right section, sorry if I didn't. Question I have is which thread is better for sewing like tow straps of lifting harnesses? I'm sure you don't use a leather needle so you don't cut the fibers and use a round point. What size thread also for up to 6 inch wide straps or doesn't it make difference and you just add more stitches do to the extra width vs one that's narrower?  And finally do any of you know anywhere that sells the strap itself in bulk. Thanks in advance for any advise.

[shoepatcher]

Round point for sure.  Not sure what machine you are using.  Truck toe lines out of 3"-4" webbing are usually sewn with at least  #277 thread.  I have seen them sewn with up to #415.  Try  Shelton Reynolds in Wisconsin.    They use to carry huge amounts of webbing in all different weights.  Seconds and over runs.

glenn

[Burkhardt]

They seem to have everything thanks for the info.

[trash treasure]

I believe nylon is technically stronger than polyester, but has less UV resistance. For something like a lift or tow strap, that won't be left out, probably nylon.

Edited September 2, 2022 by trash treasure

[kgg]

10 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

Thanks in advance for any advise.

If you are making or repairing a strap it needs to be certified or re certified so be careful as straps under load are or can be dangerous. If you are planning on making / repairing straps for others or even for yourself that could endanger someone else if it strap fails get certified to do that type of work and good insurance.

kgg

[nylonRigging]

5 hours ago, kgg said:

If you are making or repairing a strap it needs to be certified or re certified so be careful as straps under load are or can be dangerous. If you are planning on making / repairing straps for others or even for yourself that could endanger someone else if it strap fails get certified to do that type of work and good insurance.

kgg

 

Yes..What ( KGG say's ) . from all your questions asked . You don't have any knowledge of sewing, so you should not be doing Rigging for 'any serious'  Lift and Load/weight Bearing .

I NOT trying to be a A-hole.. but The subject is serious enough, that there is even a world standard and adopted proper techniques for Lift/Load/life saving device, and ' Sewing ' . I'm not even talking about big serious weight or life saving harnesses . Even a simple Tow-Strap under Load-stretch, when breaking can cause Very serious damage .
.
 

[Burkhardt]

On 9/2/2022 at 12:40 PM, nylonRigging said:

 

Yes..What ( KGG say's ) . from all your questions asked . You don't have any knowledge of sewing, so you should not be doing Rigging for 'any serious'  Lift and Load/weight Bearing .

I NOT trying to be a A-hole.. but The subject is serious enough, that there is even a world standard and adopted proper techniques for Lift/Load/life saving device, and ' Sewing ' . I'm not even talking about big serious weight or life saving harnesses . Even a simple Tow-Strap under Load-stretch, when breaking can cause Very serious damage .
.
 

You got that I don't know anything about sewing and have no idea about straps because I asked where to buy bulk and nylon or polyester thread? Each site you look one says nylon and the rest say polyester for the U-V. They are sewn in a box-x pattern. I've been 4-wheeling for over 35 years and probably own more straps than you've ever seen.

[nylonRigging]

On 9/3/2022 at 6:55 PM, Burkhardt said:

You got that I don't know anything about sewing and have no idea about straps because I asked where to buy bulk and nylon or polyester thread? Each site you look one says nylon and the rest say polyester for the U-V. They are sewn in a box-x pattern. I've been 4-wheeling for over 35 years and probably own more straps than you've ever seen.

Dude sorry, I was not trying to insult you at all with what I typed in the post .
You asking about Poly. or Nylon webbing for you sewing a Tie-Strap ? . If you blindly sewing by example off one of your many tie-straps you own for your Quad hauling. Then you grabbing some 1-inch poly or nylon webbing off Ebay and sewing a friction buckle to one end with a Box-X stitch pattern, with whatever thread your using ? .. you will probably ???  be OK . Your Load will probably not be all over the highway .
and Really ? . If all we are talking about here is you wanting just a tie-down strap for securing a Quad your hauling on a camping trip. it a lot cheaper for you to just go over to Walmart and buy a cheep Poly Chinese tie-strap, than sewing your own. ' Unless ' you are wanting to Rig something special for yourself ?

You sewing a box-X is a good 'basic' starting point for you . box-X is just 1 basic stitch pattern, that is used for attaching hardware to any number of different type webbing's .  This ---> Respectfully, I don't think you have any idea of just how in depth the subject goes . Sewing Rigging Lift/Load/weight/Stitch pattern, and proper material choice . And Dude.. there is a thousand years of formal technique and knowledge for proper Rigging Leather Lift/weight/Load, also with work Animal .

There's a lot of people here with a lot of different sew knowledge that can help you . Especially if you wanting to prefab something you have never tried before.
You not really saying what you are building ? for what weight load ?, or what size type/rated webbing you wanting to try/use ?, or what size of sewing machine you have access to ?
.
 

[trash treasure]

Since we're on this subject, here's some basic info you might find useful. Some years ago, Sailrite did some testing of various stitch patterns, to try and determine relative breaking strengths : https://www.sailrite.com/How-to-Sew-Webbing-Loops

And here's a little chart sewing some of the stitch patterns used for this stuff - I understand that it's now mostly accepted that stitching more or less in line with the pull direction is strongest, with maybe some cross stitching at the ends.

In any case, I'm NOT recommending that you sell, or even give away, any straps you make, unless you get them tested and certified. If you make them for your own use, then use a lot of heavy thread, in one of the stronger stitch patterns, and GLUE the lap before sewing (Contact cement, super seam stick, etc) - They won't break at the stitching if you do it right. BUT, if you're not used to this kind of heavy duty sewing, and don't have a machine capable of using heavy thread, you should probably just pass on this type of stuff.

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Northmount
removed duplicate chart

[kgg]

12 minutes ago, trash treasure said:

Since we're on this subject, here's some basic info you might find useful.

Great info. Clearly shows in this example seams sewn along the length in the direction of the load are stronger then those which are sewn across the strap. Another important item is the strength of the thread being used:

V69 low end of the industrial threads has a breaking strength of about 11 pounds,

V138 about 22 pounds

V207 about 32 pounds,

V415 about 72 pounds.

kgg

Edited September 5, 2022 by kgg
additional info

[Burkhardt]

16 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

Dude sorry, I was not trying to insult you at all with what I typed in the post .
You asking about Poly. or Nylon webbing for you sewing a Tie-Strap ? . If you blindly sewing by example off one of your many tie-straps you own for your Quad hauling. Then you grabbing some 1-inch poly or nylon webbing off Ebay and sewing a friction buckle to one end with a Box-X stitch pattern, with whatever thread your using ? .. you will probably ???  be OK . Your Load will probably not be all over the highway .
and Really ? . If all we are talking about here is you wanting just a tie-down strap for securing a Quad your hauling on a camping trip. it a lot cheaper for you to just go over to Walmart and buy a cheep Poly Chinese tie-strap, than sewing your own. ' Unless ' you are wanting to Rig something special for yourself ?

You sewing a box-X is a good 'basic' starting point for you . box-X is just 1 basic stitch pattern, that is used for attaching hardware to any number of different type webbing's .  This ---> Respectfully, I don't think you have any idea of just how in depth the subject goes . Sewing Rigging Lift/Load/weight/Stitch pattern, and proper material choice . And Dude.. there is a thousand years of formal technique and knowledge for proper Rigging Leather Lift/weight/Load, also with work Animal .

There's a lot of people here with a lot of different sew knowledge that can help you . Especially if you wanting to prefab something you have never tried before.
You not really saying what you are building ? for what weight load ?, or what size type/rated webbing you wanting to try/use ?, or what size of sewing machine you have access to ?
.
 

See you're assuming again. 4-wheeling in my world is either my 1978 CJ5 on 38s or my 1979 Bronco on 40s. I own from 1 inch to 8 inch that you snap to get trucks buried in mud out, not Atvs that I also own and use the 1 inch for tie downs not recovery. I use 3 inch ratchet straps for tie downs when trailering.At the 4-wheeling events they have people at them that cut with the heat knives and sew them custom right on site. It's not rocket science. And I asked about thread not webbing.

[Burkhardt]

13 hours ago, trash treasure said:

Since we're on this subject, here's some basic info you might find useful. Some years ago, Sailrite did some testing of various stitch patterns, to try and determine relative breaking strengths : https://www.sailrite.com/How-to-Sew-Webbing-Loops

And here's a little chart sewing some of the stitch patterns used for this stuff - I understand that it's now mostly accepted that stitching more or less in line with the pull direction is strongest, with maybe some cross stitching at the ends.

In any case, I'm NOT recommending that you sell, or even give away, any straps you make, unless you get them tested and certified. If you make them for your own use, then use a lot of heavy thread, in one of the stronger stitch patterns, and GLUE the lap before sewing (Contact cement, super seam stick, etc) - They won't break at the stitching if you do it right. BUT, if you're not used to this kind of heavy duty sewing, and don't have a machine capable of using heavy thread, you should probably just pass on this type of stuff.

 

 

 

Thanks for the info, kind of. I don't understand where you guy's come up with the assumptions about my sewing and/or the machine. In the few posts I've asked questions I say I'm buying a Class 4 which I think is more than capable to do the job.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Northmount
removed duplicate chart

[trash treasure]

Well, since you weren't impressed much by the info (sorry everyone, about the repeat chart image, btw), there's not much more I can say. 

If you knew all this stuff already, then you should have said so, in your original post.  I, for one, wasn't assuming anything, except that you didn't know what thread to use for sewing a tow strap. I guess that mistakenly lead me to to the conclusion that you did not have experience sewing them - Hence my lame attempt at possibly useful info - Obviously, my bad.

BTW - I Never read your posts about machine purchase - So many people ask about that, I guess I just glazed over it. Good luck with learning to use it.

[Burkhardt]

1 hour ago, trash treasure said:

Well, since you weren't impressed much by the info (sorry everyone, about the repeat chart image, btw), there's not much more I can say. 

If you knew all this stuff already, then you should have said so, in your original post.  I, for one, wasn't assuming anything, except that you didn't know what thread to use for sewing a tow strap. I guess that mistakenly lead me to to the conclusion that you did not have experience sewing them - Hence my lame attempt at possibly useful info - Obviously, my bad.

BTW - I Never read your posts about machine purchase - So many people ask about that, I guess I just glazed over it. Good luck with learning to use it.

I said thanks for the info kind of. I said nothing about not being impressed, I actually liked the chart. It's the last paragraph that again questions my knowledge and soon to be machine That's why I asked about nylon or polyester for UV protection and when going to a wider strap go with heavier thread or more stitches. Hence my lame attempt at asking the question.

[Wizcrafts]

I would recommend bonded polyester thread because it isn't affected by UV rays and the elements. Use the largest size that allows you to hide the knots and long stitches so you don't perforate the webbing to the point of weakening it. Polyester thread has a slightly lower breaking strength, so use the same size on top and bottom. Use a round point needle so you don't cut the fibers. I've sewn 3" wide heavy webbing straps like you described on my Cowboy cb4500. I used the first zig-zag pattern shown in Trash Treasure's chart. I think I sewed the fold back between 8 and 10 inches. It's been a while now. The person who hired me to sew the straps uses them to lift corvette bodies off their chassis and probably other brands too. There haven't been any breakages or complaints and I've sewed a bunch.

[nylonRigging]

5 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

See you're assuming again. 4-wheeling in my world is either my 1978 CJ5 on 38s or my 1979 Bronco on 40s. I own from 1 inch to 8 inch that you snap to get trucks buried in mud out, not Atvs that I also own and use the 1 inch for tie downs not recovery. I use 3 inch ratchet straps for tie downs when trailering.At the 4-wheeling events they have people at them that cut with the heat knives and sew them custom right on site. It's not rocket science. And I asked about thread not webbing.

 ..." It's Not Rocket Science ....LOL 

unless your asked to design and rig for a parachute rocket recovery system . I have been asked to do that .

Well obviously you know what your doing , So maybe ?? You want to use Nylon thread for strength and abrasion resistance on Rigging for the singular purpose of Pull/Lift . after you pull or lift, if dirty, wash or brush clean, store the webbing gear back in the Box .
If you are Rigging for 'Tie-Down ' restraint, and it will be doing it's life 24-7 and continuously outdoors left out in the daytime Sun . Use Poly thread and webbing .

For your wider, webbing heavy type rated . I would want more than a simple Box-X stitch than you mentioned doing . ( for me ) I would do no less than an 8-point stitch pattern, with the appropriate thread cord size.  Also you also might consider incorporation a 'chafing strip' in the hardware wrap, as it makes for longer life for the friction point that is most important .
.
Also you said ..." At the 4-wheeling events they have people at them that cut and sew".
If your there, that sounds like a good place for you to ask and get some advise. Ask them to show you stitch patterns they use for different jobs, different rated webbing's and thread/cord sizes used. Also watch them sew, and watch the ' proper order of completion ' used in stitching of patterns .
.

Edited September 6, 2022 by nylonRigging

[Burkhardt]

12 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

 ..." It's Not Rocket Science ....LOL 

unless your asked to design and rig for a parachute rocket recovery system . I have been asked to do that .

Well obviously you know what your doing , So maybe ?? You want to use Nylon thread for strength and abrasion resistance on Rigging for the singular purpose of Pull/Lift . after you pull or lift, if dirty, wash or brush clean, store the webbing gear back in the Box .
If you are Rigging for 'Tie-Down ' restraint, and it will be doing it's life 24-7 and continuously outdoors left out in the daytime Sun . Use Poly thread and webbing .

For your wider, webbing heavy type rated . I would want more than a simple Box-X stitch than you mentioned doing . ( for me ) I would do no less than an 8-point stitch pattern, with the appropriate thread cord size.  Also you also might consider incorporation a 'chafing strip' in the hardware wrap, as it makes for longer life for the friction point that is most important .
.
Also you said ..." At the 4-wheeling events they have people at them that cut and sew".
If your there, that sounds like a good place for you to ask and get some advise. Ask them to show you stitch patterns they use for different jobs, different rated webbing's and thread/cord sizes used. Also watch them sew, and watch the ' proper order of completion ' used in stitching of patterns .
.

Thanks for the help.

12 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I would recommend bonded polyester thread because it isn't affected by UV rays and the elements. Use the largest size that allows you to hide the knots and long stitches so you don't perforate the webbing to the point of weakening it. Polyester thread has a slightly lower breaking strength, so use the same size on top and bottom. Use a round point needle so you don't cut the fibers. I've sewn 3" wide heavy webbing straps like you described on my Cowboy cb4500. I used the first zig-zag pattern shown in Trash Treasure's chart. I think I sewed the fold back between 8 and 10 inches. It's been a while now. The person who hired me to sew the straps uses them to lift corvette bodies off their chassis and probably other brands too. There haven't been any breakages or complaints and I've sewed a bunch.

Thanks Wiz.

[rodp]

I can give you the UK spec, because it's what we do. Webbing for lifting or securing is polyester unless use dictates another material (Chemical applications etc). Thread to be compatible with webbing, so polyester (we use number 12 mostly, google conversion to US size). Sew pattern to be one that doesn't stand proud of webbing excessively (so number one in pic above). Lifting straps have a safety factor of 7~1 (so a 1 ton lifting strap will exceed 7 tons before breaking). Load securing straps 2~1 safety factor. Lifting straps above 1 inch to have either single or double becketted eyes. Batch numbers of webbing to be recorded along with strap ID number, customer, load, length, date of manufacture, type of strap (Endless, simplex, duplex etc). Straps to be tested when first ones made or method of manufacture changes (stitch pattern or different webbing supplier etc) and periodically thereafter (keep broken ones along with details and test data).

 There's probably more but it's late here and I'm tired.