Steel Inserts in Holsters???

[RVM45]

Friends,

What can anyone  tele about steel inserts in Holsters?

The old, and no longer made, Chapman High-Ride had a Steel Insert. So did some of the old Buscadero Rigs and some of the Old Live-Ammo Fast-Draw Holsters.

It was considered heap bad juju if a Holster that was packed away in a suitcase got flattened enough to mar its serviceability..

Some competitors and exhibition shooters did nit WEAR their rigs mist of the time...

Well anyway, i'm not worried about my holster being crushed in transit, but I would like to make a good replica,

What thickness of Sheetmetal would you recommend? Exactly HOW CLOSE to the final dimensions do I want to come? I mean, there will be leather on both the inside and outside to reduce clearance for the firearm, but how much? HOW is the best way to bend the Steel Insert to shape? HOW doI determine my ideal shape? I mean, kinda like a pistol—but remember, there will be leather atop it.

HOW does one enclose the Steel Insert so it doesn't tend to wear its way through the leather?

Gas ANYONE worked with Steel Inserts before?

THANKS!

….RVM45

[chuck123wapati]

here is what i know about them. The old fast draw rigs for competition started out on tv to help the star actors out shoot their bad guys. The steel, Rawhide or fiberglass insert allowed the revolver cylinder to rotate while still in the holster allowing the single action revolver to be cocked while being pulled. then along came fast draw competition that used them for the same reason. Other than that there is no real reason to use them on edc holsters. 

 Other companies use spring steel inserts to help hold guns secure in open sided holsters to enhance the draw also. These are used on edc holsters.

 

[Dwight]

You do not say whether you are going to use a semi auto or a revolver.  Revolver's are obviously harder to do.

But if you wanted a steel lined holster . . . I'd go find me some 22 or 24 gauge galvanized sheet metal . . . some 8 or 9 ounce stiff veggie tanned leather . . . and a SMALL ball peen hammer.

Wet and mold that leather to your gun as best you can . . . two pieces . . . one on each side . . . mold it flesh side to the gun . . . . 

 Let it dry . . . bone stinking dry . . . then cover it with 3 or 4 coats of 50/50 resolene and water on the hair side only.

Brew up yourself a nice big pot of strong coffee . . . put away your cussing dictionary . . . cover your gun with those leather pieces . . . one side at a time . . . lay down a piece of that steel that's a good 2 inches bigger all the way around . . . and begin to slowly and carefully mold that sheet metal to the gun . . . using the ball peen hammer and little bitty hammer blows.

Hold the steel in place with the off hand that has a glove on it.

Don't expect to be done in time to watch your favorite show on TV tonight . . . maybe tomorrow nite either.

Seriously . . . it can be done . . . but it is a pain.

You then mold a 6/7 oz piece of veggie tan to the gun . . . hair side to the gun . . . and when that is dry . . .  contact cement it to the inside of the metal pieces that you have trimmed to fit.  When trimming . . . use sharp metal shears . . . take off small pieces . . . until you get the two pieces of leather and steel to match together with the gun in the middle.  Don't cut the leather until you have perfectly done the metal . . . just pull it back from the leather . . . you will need the leather to be bigger than the metal . . . so you can sew this inside liner to the outside of the leather holster.

Oh . . . and sewing it all together will also cause you to recall some of those words from your cussing dictionary.

An alternative to the steel is Kydex plastic.  You can use something like 3/64 or 1/16 inch kydex . . . and instead of a ball peen hammer . . . you use a heat gun . . . slowly warm it up . . . and with your off hand . . . wearing a glove . . .  you can shape it to fit your weapon . . . heat the kydex until you can mold a little bit of it . . . mold that . . . then using a paper towel and cold water . . . "FIX" that molding by immediately cooling it . . . then move a little bit farther down on the gun and mold another piece.

Neither the steel or kydex will make a perfect  . . . glove fit . . . but for "quick draw" and stuff like that . . . this process will work.

Mold another piece to the outside of your metal or kydex pieces . . .  then contact cement the whole rig together . . . sew . . . dye . . . finish . . . and then ask yourself why you didn't just buy one . . . sure would have been simpler.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited November 19, 2022 by Dwight

[alpha2]

Well, that's it then, Dwight's convinced me I don't need no steel in  my holsters! If needed, Kydex seems the way to go.

[chuck123wapati]

18 hours ago, alpha2 said:

Well, that's it then, Dwight's convinced me I don't need no steel in  my holsters! If needed, Kydex seems the way to go.

LOL if i were to put myself through that torture i would try rawhide first, at least  it wet forms. 

[chuck123wapati]

here is a really interesting video on fast draw holsters.   

 

[Dwight]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

here is a really interesting video on fast draw holsters.   

 

Thanks, Chuck . . . I knew some of that . . . but nothing near it all . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

[327fed]

Arbo Ajoala is the guy who James Arness guns down every night in the opening of Gunsmoke. And few things are harder on a single action than fanning. 

[Dwight]

4 hours ago, 327fed said:

Arbo Ajoala is the guy who James Arness guns down every night in the opening of Gunsmoke. And few things are harder on a single action than fanning. 

Whenever the subject of fanning comes up . . . I always remember the old Wyatt Erp (Hugh O'Brien) segment where Erp calls out a cowboy . . . and I disrecall exactly the details . . . 

But the guy was up on the boardwalk . . . Erp was in the street . . . carrying that Buntline of his . . . the dude whipped out his pistol and fanned it IIRC . . . 4 times before Erp got off a shot.

Erp shot once . . . dropped the cowboy.

And they were something like 12 ft apart in the scene.

As small as O'Brien was . . . it was a bit illogical to think the dude could miss 4 times at that range . . . 

But then again . . . it was TV . . . not the History Channel.

May God bless,

Dwight

[327fed]

You can miss really fast fanning. Barrel goes everywhere. The cylinder locks up with a half moon bolt that extends from the lower frame into a slot milled in the cylinder. Normal speed, it comes up, locks, cylinder stops. Fanning, it slams to a stop with the bolt barely in. Chips the cylinder and or bolt. Bob Munden used to build revolvers with hardened inserts milled into the cylinder. 

[chuck123wapati]

19 hours ago, 327fed said:

Arbo Ajoala is the guy who James Arness guns down every night in the opening of Gunsmoke. And few things are harder on a single action than fanning. 

 

15 hours ago, Dwight said:

Whenever the subject of fanning comes up . . . I always remember the old Wyatt Erp (Hugh O'Brien) segment where Erp calls out a cowboy . . . and I disrecall exactly the details . . . 

But the guy was up on the boardwalk . . . Erp was in the street . . . carrying that Buntline of his . . . the dude whipped out his pistol and fanned it IIRC . . . 4 times before Erp got off a shot.

Erp shot once . . . dropped the cowboy.

And they were something like 12 ft apart in the scene.

As small as O'Brien was . . . it was a bit illogical to think the dude could miss 4 times at that range . . . 

But then again . . . it was TV . . . not the History Channel.

May God bless,

Dwight

One of my first and the most cherished firearms is a fanner, back in the day i could hit six silver dollars thrown simultaneously lol. That reminds me i need to make a new holster. 

[Gezzer]

2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

 

One of my first and the most cherished firearms is a fanner, back in the day i could hit six silver dollars thrown simultaneously lol. That reminds me i need to make a new holster. 

Can ya still get ammo for that ?

[chuck123wapati]

18 minutes ago, Gezzer said:

Can ya still get ammo for that ?

yup you sure can lol i just realized and remembered my childhood shooting technique from my picture. i would thumb the first shot as i was drawing then follow up with the other hand fanning it. my old thumb is still ready 50+ years later. i guess muscle memory never forgets even if i do.

[327fed]

I’ve got an old Italian Colt copy 22 long rifle single action. Swapped a welding job for it maybe. Used to fan it all the time. Ever so often a bunch of parts fall out in the driveway and I order more from Numrich Arms. It is fun. 

[RVM45]

Thanks everyone.

I'm trying to recreate the "Chapman High-Ride." It was simply the best Outside-the-Pants holster for an automatic pistol ever designed. Why Bianchi quit making them…Apparently they didn't sell well enough—which reflects poorly on the intelligence of the holster-buying public.

To be sure—it was mostly touted as an IPSC Holster—not for general cary.

Anyway, Chapman asked Bianchi to design a steel insert because his holsters often got Squashed in his luggage when he travelled to shooting meets and exhibitions.

Personally, I don't intend to pack mine away in my luggage—but the steel insert is an integral part of what the holster was and did. An insert less holster wouldn't truly be the same.

Edited December 3, 2022 by RVM45
TYPO

[chuck123wapati]

lol you have been thinking about this for awhile. 

 

[RVM45]

Friend,

IF I ever get far enough ahead to join the NRA once mire, I plan to take advantage of their question-answering service to see if anyone has ever taken one of these holsters apart and photographed the STEEL INSERT. I haven't a clue what shape the Insert has.

I forget about this holster for a good long while—then See a Holster that is ALMOST a High-Ride, but falls short in some particular.

I don't remember what guns they used to offer them in—BUT if I could make my own, I could even make one to fir my Walther PP or my Ruger Standard II….

I also wish I knew PRECISELY how the Milt Sparks "Six-Pack"  magazine carriers.

O. the things that I WISH that I had loaded up on, back when they were available!

 

…..RVM45