Testing Ones Patience

[Handstitched]

I currently have a customer that ordered some belts, two for himself and one with 'wording' as a Christmas present. I asked him the measurements ( you can see where this is heading) , and he told me. I made the belts , I sent them , he received . He then phones me up to say they are too long.  WTF  ???  I made them exactly according to the measurements  that were given ( and exactly how I was taught). I asked him how he got the measurements. From an old belt...tip to tip  , buckle to the pointy end  

I told him that is the incorrect way to measure a belt, but he argued the point, " but I've always measured my belts that way" . This went on for a while, back & forth . I then sent him a text with a pic from one of Al Stohlmans books on how to correctly  measure for a belt, to the centre hole.  I also explained that this is how leather workers like myself all over  the world  measure a belt for correct and comfortable fitting, and also making allowances for trophy type buckles etc etc. I explained all this ...nup, still wouldn't have it. 

I feel a bit insulted.  Everything I have learned is down to the many books I have read by other master craftsmen  and of course  master craftsmen like Al  & Anne Stohlman,  and indeed from the many  helpful people  on this site. 

To my annoyance, I'll be making them again, but he'll be returning the others .   Only THIS time, he got a tape measure and measured his waist.....the correct way.  Thank f***k for that !!!!!! Wonders will never cease !!

HS 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Handstitched

[Klara]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm with your customer here! I didn't know how leatherworkers measure belts until I took up the hobby. When "normal people" measure an item's length, they measure end-to-end. 

In order to avoid the problem in future, send your customers measuring instructions. Something like "from the current belt's most often used hole (not necessarily the center hole if the current belt is getting small) to the inside of the buckle". I'm not happy with the second half, but trying to account for different buckle sizes...

Of course one could in theory measure waist size - except that many trousers don't go up to the waist, and you can't use the normal (naked) waist measurement either, and...

Incidentally, that kind of problem is why I don't like buying online and even less having things made to measure.

 

 

 

[Handstitched]

3 minutes ago, Klara said:

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm with your customer here! I didn't know how leatherworkers measure belts until I took up the hobby

Thats OK, I doubt you're the only one.And  I guess I should have mentioned ,  this particular customer has bought from me in the past,  I made custom belts for him with business name on them,  and when I  made his belts...way back when, I used a tape measure to measure his waist , and,  like I have told  him and countless customers , ' all measurements go from the 3rd hole back or centre hole. '. 

I wish I had a dollar for every time I  said it, and  I guess after  almost 18 years,  I'd have quite a bit saved up   by now , almost enough to retire on...maybe   

 Retire?? Give up leather work???....mmmmnah  

Also,  my Mother, being a seamstress by trade  since I was a kid , also knows all about taking measurements . 

HS

 

[Danne]

I'm sorry, but you can't assume that the customer will know how to properly measure a belt. You have to make sure he understand and get the correct length.

Let's say a customer would contact me to buy a watch strap, and I ask him for the lug width and strap length. He tell me his old strap is stamped 20mm and 115-80mm, and he would like a taper. So I make him a 20-18mm strap in the lengths 115-80mm.

After he received his strap he contact me and tell me it's impossible to attach the strap, even though it has quick release spring bars, but it's not enough space between the spring bar holes and the watch case. And he send me a photo. He have a F.P. Journe watch, and it requires a strap that is curved at the lugs, and also need curved spring bars. Who did the mistake here? I did. 

Of course in my example with watch straps, even if I know what watch they have I might be able to find out that there is a short lug distance (distance between case and spring bar) but I know a regular strap fits (a curved strap would increase the gap) then I might have to tell the customer, I can make this type of strap in this leather to fit a watch with a clearance of 1mm, but I can't find information to be certain if it will fit your watch. In this situation, the customer can decide what they want to do, find the information, measure the gap, or just hope it fits. OR I can send them a small piece of leather that is 1mm in thickness and they can try if it fits between the spring bar and case. Communication is really important. 

Ps. I do understand your frustration though, I don't sell anything yet. And I'm sure I will end up in similar situations, like where a customer have bought from me before, and then he/she knew the dimensions, and all of a sudden they forget to mention something, and I didn't ask. But I still think I have to make a new product in that case. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Danne

[chuck123wapati]

my son wanted a belt last month. I said measure your waist just like you want to wear the belt and send the buckle . He did, sent me the number and buckle, I made the belt. Hey dad its a little big can you shorten it!!!

[Danne]

2 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

my son wanted a belt last month. I said measure your waist just like you want to wear the belt and send the buckle . He did, sent me the number and buckle, I made the belt. Hey dad its a little big can you shorten it!!!

Tell him "It will last you a lifetime, and as you gets older the belt becomes shorter, just like jeans tend to shrink with age, especially after holidays :D"

[Klara]

22 hours ago, Handstitched said:

I guess I should have mentioned ,  this particular customer has bought from me in the past,  I made custom belts for him with business name on them,  and when I  made his belts...way back when, I used a tape measure to measure his waist , and,  like I have told  him and countless customers , ' all measurements go from the 3rd hole back or centre hole. '. 

Yes, that justifies your frustration a bit more. Only a bit, because "way back when" sounds like a long time and memories are short ;) . But frankly, I have come to the conclusion that some bespoke items are priced so very high because satisfaction is guaranteed  - in other words, adjusting or remaking the item is figured into the price. I never dared do that, and I've always hated custom work... (even though it's the way to go)

Btw, an ex-colleague who makes belts sells them on markets, mostly to the user, and cuts them to size and makes the holes when selling them. Of course, no edge paint or burnishing. So I have one belt made for me - and it's become too long!

 

 

 

[Handstitched]

@Klara The customer picked his belts up finally , with correct sizing, but get this, he told me he  once did leather work himself as a trade in his earlier days,  traveling around various venues selling his wares,so I would have thought he would have  known how to measure a belt.  ( he's a pest control operator now ) 

So, I'm guessing he was  measuring his belts incorrectly the whole time he was making leather goods ...wha....?? 

 I now feel a sense of ' vindication '  

HS

Edited December 20, 2022 by Handstitched

[Dwight]

  My two belt problems were one (a gift) required the name on it . . . Ephan . .. we went thru the spelling twice as I recall . . . 

Yep . . . the name was Ethan .  . . and I'm still looking for a kid named Ephan . . . I can make him a deal on a belt I've got hanging in my shop.

The other one was a guy wanted .38 belt loops in his every day belt . . . 

I made it . . . and about a year later . . . re-made it . . . without the loops . . . as it turned out to be a problem for him he had to take out the cartridges every time he changed pants . . . them put them back in.

Live and learn.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Klara]

1 hour ago, Handstitched said:

So, I'm guessing he was  measuring his belts incorrectly the whole time he was making leather goods ...wha....?? 

Self-taught and never read a book?