Roper Wallet Pocket Problems

[ArkieNewbie]

I just made my first roper wallet. It has 6 pockets down each side. The problem is that I have a big bulge in the middle where the majority of the pockets overlap. What did I do wrong?

I have a potential solution of making "t pockets". I think if I make the pockets like the drawing below and then drop the next pocket down to where the first pocket angles in that should fix my problem. Am I overcomplicating this?

[mike02130]

The T-pockets ought to be skived thinly to eliminate bulk.  If you go with what you have drawn, your cards will teeter totter because it's so narrow.  You'll still have a bulge but now only narrower.  Skive is the way.

You have some sort of V-pocket going on there which will make it bulkier.  I suggest a T-pocket.  It has "ears" which instead of overlapping, they sit flush with each other along the stitch line.  You would still want to skive though.

Edited December 6, 2022 by mike02130
add stuff

[GrampaJoel]

There will always be a bulge of some kind even with t-pockets. 
skiving will eliminate quite a bit of the bulge but not all.

the closest I have come to eliminating the bulge is by using nylon glued or sewn to the 

(’T’ ) part of the T-pockets.

[Danne]

When it comes to pockets (without lining, and not folded edges) These are the three most common solutions.

1. V-shape, skived edges and a little bit of overlap for the next pocket (Overlap have the benefit that you don't see a gap between pockets, but can be tricky to skive so it looks good)

2. T-shape with overlap.

3. T-shape without overlap.

Orange = Where you need to skive, how much you skive depend on the leather weight and your skill with the skiving knife/french edge/skiving machine

Green = A good solution, let's say the thickness of the leather you use are 1mm (2.5oz) you skive down this part to around half of the thickness. If you use stiffer veg tan this is relatively easy to do with a sharp french edger. Or if you have a bell knife skiving machine it makes it easier for softer leather.

Ps. burnish the back side of the leather with Tokonole or similar, it makes the surface a little stiffer and makes the shape of the pocket under less visible, works good for veg tan and a lot of combination tanned leathers. (Do this before you cut of the shape of the pocket, or you might distort it)

Edited December 6, 2022 by Danne

[Danne]

Here is an example where I overlap t-pockets. Now this is a fully lined construction (so it's 0.45-0.5mm leather that are skived for the pocket before it's glued together, but I do it in the same way, just more finicky to skive thinner leather)

0.5mm leather for card pocket

 

[ArkieNewbie]

Thank you to all three of you! Very good info. @GrampaJoel @mike02130

@Danne , thank you for the visuals! You're option 3 is what I had pictured in my head. The leather I have for my pockets is a 2/3oz. veg tanned. I have a set of French edgers so skiving down the edges should be a pretty decent option. I'm not super skilled with them yet but I am getting better. Making belt keepers has helped me with my skiving skills. Would it be recommended to skive down the edges of my wallet back as well? I am using a piece of 2/4oz. Hermann Oak veg tanned for the back.  

I had someone order a roper wallet last night so this will be a good "trial by fire".  

[Danne]

17 minutes ago, ArkieNewbie said:

Thank you to all three of you! Very good info. @GrampaJoel @mike02130

@Danne , thank you for the visuals! You're option 3 is what I had pictured in my head. The leather I have for my pockets is a 2/3oz. veg tanned. I have a set of French edgers so skiving down the edges should be a pretty decent option. I'm not super skilled with them yet but I am getting better. Making belt keepers has helped me with my skiving skills. Would it be recommended to skive down the edges of my wallet back as well? I am using a piece of 2/4oz. Hermann Oak veg tanned for the back.  

I had someone order a roper wallet last night so this will be a good "trial by fire".  

It doesn't have to look "perfect" since it's hidden, even a safety beveler would probably do a good job in veg tan. Where to skive can sometimes be tricky, when you skive, you want to do it where it doesn't have a huge impact on durability, but it also depends on the type of leather and construction, and how you skive, 

Let's take a bi-fold with two pockets on each side. And you want to skive under pocket sections. And this skive is 2mm from the edge, and you stitch 3mm from the edge. The red solution will create a stress point at the edge of the pocket, the green one will have it's last stitch through the full thickness of leather, and a lot less stress on that location.

(Ps, I'm no expert, these are just my thoughts and experience from prototypes and such)

[GrampaJoel]

8 hours ago, Danne said:

Here is an example where I overlap t-pockets. Now this is a fully lined construction (so it's 0.45-0.5mm leather that are skived for the pocket before it's glued together, but I do it in the same way, just more finicky to skive thinner leather)

0.5mm leather for card pocket

 

Ooooohh. I need some pink leather just like that for a wallet.

will you share with me what type of leather it is?

thanks

Joel

[Danne]

8 minutes ago, GrampaJoel said:

Ooooohh. I need some pink leather just like that for a wallet.

will you share with me what type of leather it is?

thanks

Joel

It's goat leather Alran Sully, color is rose. rmleathersupply is the US distributor. Really nice leather, good tear strength, and combination tanned and have a good feel to it.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Danne

[GrampaJoel]

2 minutes ago, Danne said:

It's goat leather Alran Sully, color is rose. rmleathersupply is the US distributor. Really nice leather, good tear strength, and combination tanned and have a good feel to it.

Thank you, thank you VERY MUCH!!

Joel

[JayEhl]

You can also look at getting wallet inserts from Tandy or others off the interwebs

[ArkieNewbie]

17 hours ago, JayEhl said:

You can also look at getting wallet inserts from Tandy or others off the interwebs

I thought about that but, and this may sound weird, they just look TOO good. That would certainly eliminate my problem though. 

I have used the precut pocket shapes from SLC and love them and will continue to use them for bifold and minimalist wallets just because they are clicked out so perfectly and consistently. I wish they made roper wallet precut t-pockets too. 

[JayEhl]

You could get a dye made and click out your own.  For small thing like that an arbor press would work well.  I guess it would depend on how much your time would be worth.  And your customers would probably never be able to tell.

 

[ArkieNewbie]

20 hours ago, JayEhl said:

You could get a dye made and click out your own.  For small thing like that an arbor press would work well.  I guess it would depend on how much your time would be worth.  And your customers would probably never be able to tell.

 

That's a good idea. I have been meaning to buy an arbor press. Harbor Freight has a 1 ton press for $64 and I think that would serve all of my purposes. 

[JayEhl]

I bought mine from Granger but its the same thing.  (At the time HF was out and didn't expect to get any in for several months due to supply chain issues)   If you go with something like that know that your pressure is pointed to one area, meaning you'll have to do multiple passes to click your dye through, depending on how big it is.  You'll want to get a metal plate for the top and bottom.  I found one at a scrap metal place that wasn't far from the house but every time I moved the project around to adjust for the size I moved the dye and had a double stamp.  (I was using letter stamps).  I ordered a plate from Etsy that attaches to the ram that will more evenly distribute the pressure and am waiting for it to arrive.   

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by JayEhl

[Frodo]

I have a different approach for card holders,  I use a shear material for lining bags and this is what I use. I also use yellow masking tape, It makes cutting the material easier and will wear off over time 

place a stripe of tape on the material and cut 1- 2”x7”. Per card pocket
 

On the bottom card slot, place your leather backside up and the material finish side up

fold the material 1/2” and sew 

After sewing the first slot, fold the material

over itself as shown,  also fold as before 1/2” 

Slide the next strip of material between the fold.  Sew

Same on the next, till you get to the top

 

tips and tricks, you can use 2 sided tape

and the top one  do not sew now, wait till you sew the 2 pieces of leather and sew it in between  

[mike02130]

Some of you guys are confusing a clicker die with the word dye.  A die cuts while dye colors.

[ArkieNewbie]

On 12/8/2022 at 8:30 AM, JayEhl said:

You'll want to get a metal plate for the top and bottom.

Thank you for pointing this out, that is a good idea. I work at a steel mill with a good fab shop so I be we can find enough scrap laying around to put something together. 

[ArkieNewbie]

@Frodo I had to do some back flips inside my head but I think I finally got my mind wrapped around your genius idea. I've got some light weight camo canvas that I have had no idea what to do with. THIS may be its finest hour. 

[Frodo]

Sorry ArkieNewbie

explaining “how to” in type is not easy for a guy with ADD and ADDHD. With out a Harley

I start at the bottom slot

sew it,

Fold the free end. “Tag”. From the first. Slot.  Up to the second slot. Fold over 1/2”, place under the card cut out

place a second piece of card slot material

inbeteen the fold. Sew that
At that point you have a completed slot for the lower card. 
 

After you have all card slots completed

run a stitch line. Around all the card slots like a picture frame,  this will tie the individual stitch lines under each slot together 

 

[ArkieNewbie]

@Frodo that makes sense. I really appreciate you sharing this way of doing it. It seems a very clean way of making the pockets. 

[FishEggStew]

This the same technique is used by Aaron Heiser at Maker's Leather Supply.  He has several videos on how to do this but he uses Tyvek.  It works very well for me in my wallet builds.

MLS Roper wallet build

Aubrey

[Frodo]

On 12/14/2022 at 12:40 PM, FishEggStew said:

This the same technique is used by Aaron Heiser at Maker's Leather Supply.  He has several videos on how to do this but he uses Tyvek.  It works very well for me in my wallet builds.

MLS Roper wallet build

Aubrey

I watched his video and am concerned at his technique

he is using 2 sided tape

tjat us going to pull apart 

what haa add be your experienced?

 

[GrampaJoel]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:37 PM, Frodo said:

I watched his video and am concerned at his technique

he is using 2 sided tape

tjat us going to pull apart 

what haa add be your experienced?

 

I know , this thread is a month old. But it’s cold and rainy and the shop isn’t warm yet.

so I would like to add. I made this, and posted my first wallet, I made for my son, 6 years ago today.

it has a silky nylon material in the pockets. The nylon  material is just double sided taped in.  
These days I sew my pockets, but it makes me wonder. 
just how much longer the wallet I made for my son,,, will last.
He has used it pretty hard.(a new one is in the works.)

Today

 

 

when new.

Edited January 16, 2023 by GrampaJoel

[GrampaJoel]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:37 PM, Frodo said:

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by GrampaJoel