Super thick leather

[Vinces0583]

Hello all......

Brand new to the forum, just signed up.  I'm desperately trying to find the thickest leather available.  I need at least 20 oz leather for a project I've been working on for aaaaaaaaaages.  The vast majority of retailers out there sell up to about 16 ounce but that's it.  Also, can you tell me which species I should be looking for?  I've read the good old bovine has some of the thickest in the neck area but also heard (rumor mostly) that water buffalo and also wild boar have super thick hides.  Can anyone help point me in a legit direction with some contacts for super thick pieces of leather I can experiment with?  Thanks so much all and Happy Holidays.

[Tugadude]

I wonder if it would help for you to tell us what you intend to make with the 20 oz. leather?  There might be other options depending on what your project is.  

As far as who you might contact, I'd try Springfield Leather Company and ask them.

[TomE]

I think the problem is biological; there are no 20 oz cows.

[MarlinDave]

Sew or glue 2,  10 oz together.

[MikeRock]

Would rawhide work?  What is your project goal??

[Vinces0583]

Sorry for sounding mysterious but I'd rather not say what the application is at the moment.  I'm kind of trying to reinvent the wheel.....the proverbial, build a better mousetrap kind of thing; an invention of sorts that's been mulling around in my brain for the better part of 20 years and patentable  I have considered most options including laminated pieces but believe it or not that's already being tried by many others with mixed degrees of success.  You'll have to educate me on rawhide as the only version of it I'm familiar with is in dried chew toys for my dog.  Others who make similar products use chrome tanned and/or vegetable tanned leathers so based upon what's been done in the past I can't see rawhide working unless it's able to be reconstituted somehow and contains that upper top grain.  For the pieces I'll be working with I don't need large material.  I could easily get away with 8 or 10 inch pieces but it's that thickness that's been the main hurdle at the moment.  On that note, is the hide usually split before it's tanned either veg or chrome?  What I've been thinking is if I could get hold of an un-split but tanned piece.  When hides are split I'm assuming they measure from the top-grain....down....to whatever uniform thickness they're trying to achieve.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Vinces0583
Added information

[Vinces0583]

1 hour ago, TomE said:

I think the problem is biological; there are no 20 oz cows.

Lol.  Don't think I haven't considered starting to breed mini cows.

[TomE]

5 minutes ago, Vinces0583 said:

Lol.  Don't think I haven't considered starting to breed mini cows.

Saddle skirting (unsplit hide) is typically up to 16 oz thickness.  The Hermann Oak Leather Co (tannery) is very helpful and could advise you based on your specifications.  If you're new to leather, download the Springfield Leather Co catalog and read the introductory material about choosing leather for your project.

[Vinces0583]

2 minutes ago, TomE said:

Saddle skirting (unsplit hide) is typically up to 16 oz thickness.  The Hermann Oak Leather Co (tannery) is very helpful and could advise you based on your specifications.  If you're new to leather, download the Springfield Leather Co catalog and read the introductory material about choosing leather for your project.

Thank you very much for the guidance.  I'll contact both of those companies,.  I've reached out to Weaver who is sending me a sample of 18oz and they've been VERY nice to chat with.  

[MikeRock]

I mentioned the rawhide because I've made Indian shields up to 3/4" thick from Long Horn bulls and buffalo bull hump.  It just gets steamed to a soft state and shrinks in radially as it drys and thickens quite a lot.

You need a flexible hinge or something similar, so no joy with rawhide. 

Good luck.  The tannery folks might be on the lookout for old range bulls for you, we skinned some out that would probably have filled the bill.  They made good dog food!

[Vinces0583]

3 minutes ago, MikeRock said:

I mentioned the rawhide because I've made Indian shields up to 3/4" thick from Long Horn bulls and buffalo bull hump.  It just gets steamed to a soft state and shrinks in radially as it drys and thickens quite a lot.

You need a flexible hinge or something similar, so no joy with rawhide. 

Good luck.  The tannery folks might be on the lookout for old range bulls for you, we skinned some out that would probably have filled the bill.  They made good dog food!

Where the heck did you find leather that is 3/4" thick?  Do you have any scraps of it floating around that I might experiment with?  I'll happily pay for the material plus shipping.  Anything above 5/16 or so would probably work.  The thicker the better.  I plan on processing it to fit my needs once I get my mitts on it.

[MikeRock]

I told you, it was rawhide.  By wetting and steaming it swells.  Stake it to the ground over a fire that you buried in wet soil, steam is generated under it.  It shrinks in diameter and gets thicker as it dries.  Some museum Indian shields were over an inch thick.  That buffalo hump skin is damned thick to begin with.  I got the hides in Custer State Park during the butcher there.  The Mennonite butchers used air knives to skin the buffalo and thought what I was trying was cool.  I think it is talked about in Mystic Warriors of the Plains.......    I found more information at the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Nebraska.  I lived south of Keystone, where Mt. Rushmore is up on the hill.  I lived on the Iron Mountain road.....fun times. 

[Vinces0583]

6 minutes ago, MikeRock said:

I told you, it was rawhide.  By wetting and steaming it swells.  Stake it to the ground over a fire that you buried in wet soil, steam is generated under it.  It shrinks in diameter and gets thicker as it dries.  Some museum Indian shields were over an inch thick.  That buffalo hump skin is damned thick to begin with.  I got the hides in Custer State Park during the butcher there.  The Mennonite butchers used air knives to skin the buffalo and thought what I was trying was cool.  I think it is talked about in Mystic Warriors of the Plains.......    I found more information at the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Nebraska.  I lived south of Keystone, where Mt. Rushmore is up on the hill.  I lived on the Iron Mountain road.....fun times. 

So prior to steaming how thick was the rawhide?  And it was buffalo rawhide?  I'm assuming they skin the animal.....dry the hide naturally which makes it shrink and then steam it and make it puff back up?  Veryyyyyy interesting.  VERY interesting.  Do you have or know where I might find the exact material you started with?  I'd love to try a few things with that.  I live in Philadelphia so my access to such western skills is highly unlikely.

[Burkhardt]

If you need 20oz I would consider for instance at SLC they sell the splits from the hides they split. You could get a 12oz veg hide and get a 8oz split and glue them together and you'd hardly be able to tell. You can get a full side split for 30.00.  

[Vinces0583]

18 minutes ago, Burkhardt said:

If you need 20oz I would consider for instance at SLC they sell the splits from the hides they split. You could get a 12oz veg hide and get a 8oz split and glue them together and you'd hardly be able to tell. You can get a full side split for 30.00.  

SLC?  I've tried laminated pieces in the past.  Doesn't work for this application.  It's a very odd application to be honest.  If I can find the right material and get it to work it'll be patentable for me.

[Burkhardt]

1 minute ago, Vinces0583 said:

SLC?  I've tried laminated pieces in the past.  Doesn't work for this application.  It's a very odd application to be honest.  If I can find the right material and get it to work it'll be patentable for me.

Springfield Leather Com. You've tried using a split, don't know how it's any different than a if they made cows that thick. Unless you have glued split to split back before which I doubt you have.

[TomE]

You have 2 leather resources in PA.  Wickett and Craig of America, and Keystone Leather.  I would call them.  I previously mentioned Hermann Oak Leather Co, which is another well respected tannery in Saint Louis with good customer service.

[Vinces0583]

5 hours ago, TomE said:

You have 2 leather resources in PA.  Wickett and Craig of America, and Keystone Leather.  I would call them.  I previously mentioned Hermann Oak Leather Co, which is another well respected tannery in Saint Louis with good customer service.

Thank you for those resources.  They're roughly 4 hours away from where I live it seems.  I'll reach out to them and see what they say.  Thanks again.

[Vinces0583]

12 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

Springfield Leather Com. You've tried using a split, don't know how it's any different than a if they made cows that thick. Unless you have glued split to split back before which I doubt you have.

A question about the process that leads up to a ready-to-use material.......do the tanneries split the leather before it's tanned or after?  I'm thinking perhaps an unsplit hide would be the best IF they split the thing after it's tanned. Does anyone know the range of thicknesses cowhide is prior to splitting?  I see suede pieces that are in the medium ounce ranges.  So let's say the post-processed hide is 25 ounces do they split it to a piece of top grain that's 12.5 and a suede that's 12.5?

[chuck123wapati]

1 minute ago, Vinces0583 said:

A question about the process that leads up to a ready-to-use material.......do the tanneries split the leather before it's tanned or after?  I'm thinking perhaps an unsplit hide would be the best IF they split the thing after it's tanned. Does anyone know the range of thicknesses cowhide is prior to splitting?  I see suede pieces that are in the medium ounce ranges.  So let's say the post-processed hide is 25 ounces do they split it to a piece of top grain that's 12.5 and a suede that's 12.5?

you will be lucky if you can find one piece of 20 oz of any type let alone enough to make you a millionaire on your super secret patent. Animal hide is a natural product it only comes in certain thicknesses depending on the type of animal. But i wish you all the luck in the world

[Vinces0583]

3 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

you will be lucky if you can find one piece of 20 oz of any type let alone enough to make you a millionaire on your super secret patent. Animal hide is a natural product it only comes in certain thicknesses depending on the type of animal. But i wish you all the luck in the world

Not looking to become a millionaire. Simply trying to build a better mousetrap based upon an idea I had 20 some odd years ago. What I'm seeking is that animal hide that exceeds the average hide thickness.  Surely there's a "thickest" hide in the animal kingdom.  I know mouse hides are out of the question and T-Rex hides are scarce but surely there's a "thickest" between those two parameters.  But, thanks for the well-wishes.

[nstarleather]

2 hours ago, Vinces0583 said:

Not looking to become a millionaire. Simply trying to build a better mousetrap based upon an idea I had 20 some odd years ago. What I'm seeking is that animal hide that exceeds the average hide thickness.  Surely there's a "thickest" hide in the animal kingdom.  I know mouse hides are out of the question and T-Rex hides are scarce but surely there's a "thickest" between those two parameters.  But, thanks for the well-wishes.

I agree with most people here that 20oz isn't going to be a standard product for anyone...

My feeling is that to produce this you'll need to contact a tannery a directly that gets hides in their raw state (not wet blue)... for Some reason Veg Tan tends to be thicker so I'd contact the big ones in the USA:  Herman Oak and Wickett and Craig.  You might also have success contacting European tanneries as, generally they keep animals longer before slaughter and therefor you might get thicker hides (just a guess).  The next step after that would be to contact people that work with Exotics like Bison, Water Buffalo, Hippo or Elephant.   Bison and water buffalo are both reasonably priced.  Here in the USA Tasman, Law and Horween deal in Bison.  I'm not sure where to start with Waterbuffalo. 

 

[Vinces0583]

52 minutes ago, nstarleather said:

I agree with most people here that 20oz isn't going to be a standard product for anyone...

My feeling is that to produce this you'll need to contact a tannery a directly that gets hides in their raw state (not wet blue)... for Some reason Veg Tan tends to be thicker so I'd contact the big ones in the USA:  Herman Oak and Wickett and Craig.  You might also have success contacting European tanneries as, generally they keep animals longer before slaughter and therefor you might get thicker hides (just a guess).  The next step after that would be to contact people that work with Exotics like Bison, Water Buffalo, Hippo or Elephant.   Bison and water buffalo are both reasonably priced.  Here in the USA Tasman, Law and Horween deal in Bison.  I'm not sure where to start with Waterbuffalo. 

 

Fantastic leads.  Thanks very much.

[Burkhardt]

11 hours ago, Vinces0583 said:

A question about the process that leads up to a ready-to-use material.......do the tanneries split the leather before it's tanned or after?  I'm thinking perhaps an unsplit hide would be the best IF they split the thing after it's tanned. Does anyone know the range of thicknesses cowhide is prior to splitting?  I see suede pieces that are in the medium ounce ranges.  So let's say the post-processed hide is 25 ounces do they split it to a piece of top grain that's 12.5 and a suede that's 12.5?

SLC has Herman Oaks old splitter so during busy times like currently they get the hides in full thickness and split to order. I have a hide now that I had split the lower belly area to 6oz and the rest is natural. 8-9oz up to 12-14oz in areas from shoulders to the butt.

[Vinces0583]

9 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

SLC has Herman Oaks old splitter so during busy times like currently they get the hides in full thickness and split to order. I have a hide now that I had split the lower belly area to 6oz and the rest is natural. 8-9oz up to 12-14oz in areas from shoulders to the butt.

That Sir, is very interesting.  I'll try to give them a call on Monday.  Thank you.