CFM chuck123wapati Posted January 23, 2023 CFM Report Posted January 23, 2023 Here is some truly good info on the off topic subject of understanding gun retention. https://www.targetbarn.com/broad-side/holster-retention/ Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
Members chiefjason Posted January 24, 2023 Members Report Posted January 24, 2023 14 hours ago, chuck123wapati said: I guess you have no pros to offer. my point exactly grab the gun held on by a secure loop you may not get it, grab a gun held on by a ten cent piece of tin or in the serpas case plastic you prolly will. Bottom line friend is its your house paint it whatever color you want. I wont argue the point any longer the guy asked i gave my opinion, you can as well. Btw your Serpa has been banned by multiple law enforcement associations. So, if the holster does not come out with the clip on the draw then it's not easier to get the holster than it is to get the gun. Maybe that's a better way to explain it. Guess that's the pro. If you can draw the gun and the holster stays put then the attachment is pretty irrelevant. The gun is coming out first. If you draw the gun and the holster comes out, then you have an issue to fix. Clips are also fast to attach and easy to deal with. I've had older customers struggle with DOT snaps. They can take some breaking in. For the maker, clips are cheap. And sometimes cheaper to replace depending on how they are mounted. There are clips I won't use that are not suitable for holsters or for what I need in a clip. But that silver style of clip is not one of them. I use them a lot for clip on mag holders as well. On a decent gun belt they get a solid grip on the bottom of the belt. Not as good as the nylon ones I use on the holsters but it take some prying to get the mag holders off. And I'm not even sure where that Serpa is anymore. I think it's behind the seat of my truck as a backup. Then again, the G19 is a backup gun and that's what it fits. Quote
CFM chuck123wapati Posted January 24, 2023 CFM Report Posted January 24, 2023 4 hours ago, chiefjason said: So, if the holster does not come out with the clip on the draw then it's not easier to get the holster than it is to get the gun. Maybe that's a better way to explain it. Guess that's the pro. If you can draw the gun and the holster stays put then the attachment is pretty irrelevant. The gun is coming out first. If you draw the gun and the holster comes out, then you have an issue to fix. Clips are also fast to attach and easy to deal with. I've had older customers struggle with DOT snaps. They can take some breaking in. For the maker, clips are cheap. And sometimes cheaper to replace depending on how they are mounted. There are clips I won't use that are not suitable for holsters or for what I need in a clip. But that silver style of clip is not one of them. I use them a lot for clip on mag holders as well. On a decent gun belt they get a solid grip on the bottom of the belt. Not as good as the nylon ones I use on the holsters but it take some prying to get the mag holders off. And I'm not even sure where that Serpa is anymore. I think it's behind the seat of my truck as a backup. Then again, the G19 is a backup gun and that's what it fits. you know I wasn't really talking about the the holster staying in or on your pants when you draw the gun any five dollar wally mart special will do that so that's not really a pro that's just the normal function of any holster. i was talking about having the gun still on you when you really need it the most and ending up still having it when you get home from even the worst case scenario especially if its built and its use is for a possible fight. I will leave it at this every person has a standard, whether its built on fact or opinion or short stories in a magazine. Its theirs and theirs alone , my standard for a good holster is obviously more stringent than yours and includes the reality that someone may try and take it. No big deal cheap or cheaper and easier because you can replace them doesn't fit in my standard of a good holster that's all and if i wont personally use it because i feel its unsafe then i wont make it for a customer and i wont recommend them for a build its just that simple. I know folks use them i know they are very common with older folks they have their place I'm sure in the holster world but IMO not on a gun holster and especially not one built solely for self defense. I have my standards and i wont budge on that but I don't care if anyone builds them or if anyone uses them, I will gladly send anyone who wants a holster built with a clip to you or anyone on here that makes them i have no problem with that. Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
Members chiefjason Posted January 26, 2023 Members Report Posted January 26, 2023 On 1/24/2023 at 11:11 AM, chuck123wapati said: you know I wasn't really talking about the the holster staying in or on your pants when you draw the gun any five dollar wally mart special will do that so that's not really a pro that's just the normal function of any holster. i was talking about having the gun still on you when you really need it the most and ending up still having it when you get home from even the worst case scenario especially if its built and its use is for a possible fight. I will leave it at this every person has a standard, whether its built on fact or opinion or short stories in a magazine. Its theirs and theirs alone , my standard for a good holster is obviously more stringent than yours and includes the reality that someone may try and take it. No big deal cheap or cheaper and easier because you can replace them doesn't fit in my standard of a good holster that's all and if i wont personally use it because i feel its unsafe then i wont make it for a customer and i wont recommend them for a build its just that simple. I know folks use them i know they are very common with older folks they have their place I'm sure in the holster world but IMO not on a gun holster and especially not one built solely for self defense. I have my standards and i wont budge on that but I don't care if anyone builds them or if anyone uses them, I will gladly send anyone who wants a holster built with a clip to you or anyone on here that makes them i have no problem with that. Yeah, you have a standard. You can have it. You can continue to have it. I'm pointing this out for folks that might stumble on this to give them a counter point. You said a guy can take away any size gun on a clip by taking the holster and gun. You say a $5 holster will stay put and allow you to draw the gun. Which seems to mean it has the ability to retain the holster on the belt during the draw. I'm saying if the bad guy can draw the gun from the holster how it's attached is pretty irrelevant. The weak point in the system is not the clip, it's the retention. Your looped holster has that exact same weakness. I think you are over selling the clip issue and underselling the obvious issue that they can just draw the gun itself. Which you can continue to do if you like. I'm just not a fan of burdening other makers with something that seems pretty irrelevant. Quote
CFM chuck123wapati Posted January 26, 2023 CFM Report Posted January 26, 2023 3 hours ago, chiefjason said: Yeah, you have a standard. You can have it. You can continue to have it. I'm pointing this out for folks that might stumble on this to give them a counter point. You said a guy can take away any size gun on a clip by taking the holster and gun. You say a $5 holster will stay put and allow you to draw the gun. Which seems to mean it has the ability to retain the holster on the belt during the draw. I'm saying if the bad guy can draw the gun from the holster how it's attached is pretty irrelevant. The weak point in the system is not the clip, it's the retention. Your looped holster has that exact same weakness. I think you are over selling the clip issue and underselling the obvious issue that they can just draw the gun itself. Which you can continue to do if you like. I'm just not a fan of burdening other makers with something that seems pretty irrelevant. whatever friend i said my piece, you did too so lets move on ok no one really really gives a crap what either of us thinks or does. Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
Members Bert03241 Posted January 27, 2023 Author Members Report Posted January 27, 2023 wow I never realized that asking a simple how to question would create so much controversy Quote
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