Chandler 406 (Consew 206)

[MainiacMatt]

Greetings again.  My quest for a leather sewing machine suitable for furniture upholstery work is honing in on a conclusion and I'm going to see/test a new Chandler 406 this week, at a local dealer.

All indications that this machine (last one remaining of a lot of 10 he purchased in 2021) is a Consew 206RB-5 and it runs 135x17 series needles and M-style bobbins..  And Schmetz advertises these up to Singer size 24.  And while I've read accounts of sewers being unable to run size 207 thread on the 206 class machines, I've been operating under the impression that size 138 was well within its capabilities.

So, I'm communicating with the dealer about setting up the machine to test sew my 3 oz chrome tanned samples, he states "T135 is a little to heavy for that hook to take".   

The dealer has been very responsive, and seems like a good guy, so either I'm out to lunch in my thinking about what a 206 class can due, or he's not really familiar with leather sewing with heavier threads.

Anyone out there running 138/T-135 on a 206 class?  Have you had any problems?  Is there something about the hook on this class that can't handle T135?

I've been learning a lot from Willie Sandry (The Thoughtful Woodworker/Upholsterer on YouTube).  And he does excellent work on an old 226 and a newer 206, so that's one indicator that I'm on the right track here.

 

 

[kgg]

2 hours ago, MainiacMatt said:

"T135 is a little to heavy for that hook to take".   

The dealer has been very responsive, and seems like a good guy, so either I'm out to lunch in my thinking about what a 206 class can due, or he's not really familiar with leather sewing with heavier threads.

According to the Consew 206rb-5 Operating Manual ( Consew 206RB-5 Operating Instructions ) under Specifications section the machine is only rated for a #22 needle. That means it is rated to handle V92 in thicker materials or V138 in thinner materials. To use V207 you would need a #24 needle.

I my opinion you would be much better off looking at a Juki DNU-1541S that is rated for V138 top and bobbin thread in thicker materials and is rated for #24 needle.

kgg

[DonInReno]

2 hours ago, MainiacMatt said:

So, I'm communicating with the dealer about setting up the machine to test sew my 3 oz chrome tanned samples, he states "T135 is a little to heavy for that hook to take".   

That sounds like he doesn’t know much about leather sewing or didn’t stock industrial needles and didn’t want to order any for your test drive.  Lol

Even my local supplier that stocks upholstery fabric, leather, thread, prewound bobbins, oil by the gallon,  etc. doesn’t keep any industrial size needles in stock - they don’t like dealing with the hassle when residential users buy commercial machines that they don’t understand and want to blame other issues on the needles and return them.

Or it could be he just doesn’t want to take the time to readjust the tensions, wind up a new bobbin, open a box of larger needles, and rethread for a test drive.  I’ve met a few of those old school shop keepers.  

[MainiacMatt]

The plot thickens...

I commented on one of the YouTube videos from the channel I mentioned and Willie was gracious enough to reply.

I use 92 weight thread for all my upholstery projects. The Consew 206 can handle 135 thread on top. The top loading machines like the Consew 206 and Juki 562 don't seem to like the heavy thread.

I'm not sure what he means by top loading, as the 206 has an end loading bobbin. 

So perhaps the dealer's comment reflects experience and trumps the manufacture's specs.  He only sells industrial machines, and appears to spend most of his time on the road servicing his commercial customers, such that his shop is by appointment only.  And while New England hasn't been the textile capital of the new world for 40 years, there's still a fair bit around.  There's also quite a bit of sail making and canvas cover making for the boat crowd.

1 hour ago, kgg said:

I my opinion you would be much better off looking at a Juki DNU-1541S that is rated for V138 top and bobbin thread in thicker materials and is rated for #24 needle.

kgg

I think you're right... but my wallet (and wife) doesn't agree.  At $1,300, I'm already quite a bit over budget.  I can't find a 1541 for less than $2K

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by MainiacMatt

[DonInReno]

He probably meant Consew 226 - it’s like a juki 562 - both of which are essentially a copy of the singer 111w156 and share the same hook dimensions.

He is the first person I’ve ever heard that claims either of those first two can’t sew well with 138 because of a top loading bobbin or hook issue.

There are some hooks designed specific to lightweight thread in some parts manuals, but it’s my understanding those aren’t common.

 I’d look elsewhere for advice.   Even with a google search you can quickly find 100 users of those machines that sew quite happily with 138.

Upholstery shops may very well use 90 weight thread for most things - but that’s a matter of cost saving over thicker thread and 90 weight is plenty strong, not that the machine can’t handle it.

He wouldn’t be the first to spread urban legends in this industry.

 

 

[MainiacMatt]

Thanks for your reply Don.  I think both of these guys mean well... but the dealer doesn't appear to have first hand experience with leatherwork, and the YouTuber who makes quite a bit of leather upholstery and has formal training, may not be that well versed on machine mechanics.

Either way, I consider myself lucky to have the input, as I'm used to filtering through a lot of differing perspectives to arrive at my own conclusions.  

I think the Chandler branded Consew 206 is the best option available to me right now, and by buying new from a dealer who services what he sells and will have a sense of responsibility to me as a local paying customer, I'll avoid (or at least be able to resolve) any big issues.  I'm quite mechanically inclined and have done some work on my Singer 66, but I need to stay focused on completing my leather upholstery, and not get side tracked into a new sewing machine repair hobby by buying someone else's problem child.

That said, if anyone using a Consew 206 (or clone) has experience using 138 thread, I'd love to hear about it.

Edited February 7, 2023 by MainiacMatt

[CowboyBob]

I have a customer that uses 277 on top & 92 in the bobbin for upholstery work with a 206RB-5 we sold him.It would never work in leather though.

[MtlBiker]

@MainiacMatt - I've used v138 bonded polyester thread on my Consew 206RB-5 a couple of times now, but usually stick to v92.  I used it top and bobbin and it worked well (that was with two layers of about 6oz veg tan with a #24 needle.  The only reason I don't use it all that often (besides not really needing it) was I always find it a pain to readjust the thread tension.  Especially on the bobbin.  Maybe I just don't have enough experience.  I don' t know why, but I always seem to find it easier to adjust on my Techsew 2750.  But even there I'd say I use v92 about 75% of the time.

[MainiacMatt]

I went and looked at the Chandler today. 

The guy basically runs a service shop and had machines all over the place.  I can see why he doesn't keep "office hours" as the shop wasn't exactly tidy and had no showroom suitable for customer presentations.  None the less, he really seemed to know a lot about sewing machines.  He even had a bench top lathe and mill set up in one area, where he does his customization work.

It turns out that this Chandler was the last of a lot of 10 machines and has been on his shelf for ~4 years.  Like everything else in the shop, it was dusty, but had no signs of wear.  This was by far the smallest machine in the shop.

He had just finished setting it up on the table (also dusty) and I sewed several test pieces.  It plowed right through six layers of my 3 oz. chrome tan upholstery leather with no apparent effort.

$1,300 out the door (thankyou tax free NH).

Let the fun begin.

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by MainiacMatt

[MainiacMatt]

All set up in my “office”.  This thing is a beast. 

Needles and thread on order from The Thread Connection.

Going through mechanic videos to learn machine and precision tune to factory specs.

Need to order feet… any site member favorite sources recommended?

I’m thinking about ditching the belt guard.  Any thoughts on that?

Edited February 12, 2023 by MainiacMatt

[DonInReno]

That’s awesome!