Upgrading my machine.

[toxo]

Thinking about upgrading my Adler 69. Can you guys please tell me what cylinder arm options I have in the UK that have a bigger bobbin, will easily sew 2 layers of 6/8mm veg tan and preferably has a lock on the reverse?

 

[Matt S]

The only machine I can recall with a locking reverse was the Tippman Aerostitch, which is years out of production, a rare bird on these shores, and temperamental.

If you can make do with a larger cylinder arm (3" diameter) there are a few options available to you. I have a pair of Seiko LCW-8s, which use large U-size bobbins. If you need to stay with a smaller cylinder arm like your 69 there are a lot fewer options, but you might want to look at the Juki 246 which has a 2" diameter arm but takes a (IIRC) M size bobbin which takes more thread than the one on you Adler. Most machines in this weight class will probably struggle with anything over 10mm total thickness though -- it's simply not what they're designed for. If you're stitching 2 layers of 8mm veg tanned leather regularly you'd be best looking at something in what I call the harness weight class -- Singer 45K, Adler 205, Juki 441, that sort of thing. Most of those have large cylinder arms but on the plus side their bobbins are far larger than the G size on your Adler 69.

[Northmount]

Depending on the machine's construction, you may be able to fashion a locking device to hold the stitch length/reverse in the reverse position.  A stretchy cord with a loop to pull over the lever can do the job for you.

 

[toxo]

7 hours ago, Matt S said:

The only machine I can recall with a locking reverse was the Tippman Aerostitch, which is years out of production, a rare bird on these shores, and temperamental.

If you can make do with a larger cylinder arm (3" diameter) there are a few options available to you. I have a pair of Seiko LCW-8s, which use large U-size bobbins. If you need to stay with a smaller cylinder arm like your 69 there are a lot fewer options, but you might want to look at the Juki 246 which has a 2" diameter arm but takes a (IIRC) M size bobbin which takes more thread than the one on you Adler. Most machines in this weight class will probably struggle with anything over 10mm total thickness though -- it's simply not what they're designed for. If you're stitching 2 layers of 8mm veg tanned leather regularly you'd be best looking at something in what I call the harness weight class -- Singer 45K, Adler 205, Juki 441, that sort of thing. Most of those have large cylinder arms but on the plus side their bobbins are far larger than the G size on your Adler 69.

Thanks Matt. To be honest I rarely sew bigger than 2.4/3mm leather but just trying to get a look at what's out there. A 2 inch cylinder doesn't worry me either. I've just had a look at Geordies Tysew, they're just up the road from you so I can drive over there if necessary. It looks like a capable machine with large bobbin and affordable. Couldn't justify the 246 on my output. Take a look, what do you think?

@Northmount Why didn't I think of that? I have a great brain but it's completely linear. Can't think sideways. Can't do a cryptic crossword to save my life. Thank you.

Tysew TY-3600C-1 Cylinder Arm Walking Foot Needle Feed - TY-3600C-1 -

 

 

 

[Matt S]

20 hours ago, toxo said:

Thanks Matt. To be honest I rarely sew bigger than 2.4/3mm leather but just trying to get a look at what's out there. A 2 inch cylinder doesn't worry me either. I've just had a look at Geordies Tysew, they're just up the road from you so I can drive over there if necessary. It looks like a capable machine with large bobbin and affordable. Couldn't justify the 246 on my output. Take a look, what do you think?

Tysew TY-3600C-1 Cylinder Arm Walking Foot Needle Feed - TY-3600C-1 -

I believe that's a moderate quality Chinese clone of the Juki 245 or 246. I used to have a 246 clone from another rebadger (probably the same manufacturer) and while it has some advantageous features would prefer to have your Adler for its quality and reliability. I wouldn't put my money into another one.

Two layers of 3mm leather should work fine in your Adler. If you want to sew 2x layers of 6+mm you'll have to upgrade to something significantly heavier like an Adler 205, with a going rate around 3-4x your Adler. If you want something with similar capacity to your Adler but a larger bobbin there's a few options for about 1-1.5x the price of your Adler. Seiko LCW-8 and Juki 1341 would be good options, and usually go for under £1500 used.

[kgg]

2 hours ago, Matt S said:

Seiko LCW-8 and Juki 1341 would be good options

The Seiko LCW-8 will take a #22 needle while the Juki LS-1341 will take a #24.

kgg

[toxo]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:03 PM, Matt S said:

I believe that's a moderate quality Chinese clone of the Juki 245 or 246. I used to have a 246 clone from another rebadger (probably the same manufacturer) and while it has some advantageous features would prefer to have your Adler for its quality and reliability. I wouldn't put my money into another one.

Two layers of 3mm leather should work fine in your Adler. If you want to sew 2x layers of 6+mm you'll have to upgrade to something significantly heavier like an Adler 205, with a going rate around 3-4x your Adler. If you want something with similar capacity to your Adler but a larger bobbin there's a few options for about 1-1.5x the price of your Adler. Seiko LCW-8 and Juki 1341 would be good options, and usually go for under £1500 used.

OK guys, here's where I am. I spoke initially to Tysew and potentially, they will deliver the Tysew 3001-C and take away both the Durkopp 239 flatbed and the Adler 69 in part exchange. I was getting quite excited about getting the whole job done so easily but then @Matt S mentioned "moderate quality Chinese clone" which made me think again. I found Juki 246 and the 3141, both within budget but each with compromises and now i'm leaning towards the original deal again because;

Getting a new machine and getting rid of the other two on the same day is really appealing.

Comes with a 12 month guarantee 

It won't be getting any heavy usage

Both Geordie and Harry Rogers (YouTube) use them (maybe because of sponsorship?) And have featured them on Y/T.

What's holding me back slightly is wanting to do wallets eventually and I don't know if the Tysew can get down that far. Will one of Brians @RockyAussie  needle plate doohickkies fit this machine?

Would this be a big mistake guys? Talk to me please

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by toxo

[Matt S]

On 2/12/2023 at 9:58 PM, toxo said:

OK guys, here's where I am. I spoke initially to Tysew and potentially, they will deliver the Tysew 3001-C and take away both the Durkopp 239 flatbed and the Adler 69 in part exchange. I was getting quite excited about getting the whole job done so easily but then @Matt S mentioned "moderate quality Chinese clone" which made me think again. I found Juki 246 and the 3141, both within budget but each with compromises and now i'm leaning towards the original deal again because;

Getting a new machine and getting rid of the other two on the same day is really appealing.

Comes with a 12 month guarantee 

It won't be getting any heavy usage

Both Geordie and Harry Rogers (YouTube) use them (maybe because of sponsorship?) And have featured them on Y/T.

What's holding me back slightly is wanting to do wallets eventually and I don't know if the Tysew can get down that far. Will one of Brians @RockyAussie  needle plate doohickkies fit this machine?

Talk to me please

Sorry about the delay replying, had a busy few days.
 

Quote

Would this be a big mistake guys?

Frankly, I think it may be. The 3600 seems to only have one advantage to you over you Adler 69, i.e. a larger bobbin. Your Adler is a far higher quality (i.e. reliable and repairable) machine than that Tysew-badged one. When I was having troubles with my 246 clone I called in a technician and he pointed out that any parts that need replacing (which can happen due to wear, accident or desire to upgrade) are not always compatible with clone machines. I nearly had a boat anchor after a slight mishap.

If you want different parts for your Adler 69 (like a an add-on flat table, or a narrow needle plate) they are widely available as that model has been an industry staple for decades.

Let's put it this way: Tysew sells used Adler 69s for about the same price as a /new/ Tysew 3600. Since they are broadly similar machines in terms of features and capacities the only way that would work is if Adler. Tysew's offer is to take 2x machines with a sale value of ~£2K off you in exchange for a machine worth ~£1K. No wonder they're keen.

[toxo]

2 hours ago, Matt S said:

Sorry about the delay replying, had a busy few days.
 

Frankly, I think it may be. The 3600 seems to only have one advantage to you over you Adler 69, i.e. a larger bobbin. Your Adler is a far higher quality (i.e. reliable and repairable) machine than that Tysew-badged one. When I was having troubles with my 246 clone I called in a technician and he pointed out that any parts that need replacing (which can happen due to wear, accident or desire to upgrade) are not always compatible with clone machines. I nearly had a boat anchor after a slight mishap.

If you want different parts for your Adler 69 (like a an add-on flat table, or a narrow needle plate) they are widely available as that model has been an industry staple for decades.

Let's put it this way: Tysew sells used Adler 69s for about the same price as a /new/ Tysew 3600. Since they are broadly similar machines in terms of features and capacities the only way that would work is if Adler. Tysew's offer is to take 2x machines with a sale value of ~£2K off you in exchange for a machine worth ~£1K. No wonder they're keen.

Thanks Matt. There's nothing like 1st hand knowledge.