Singer 111W155 Big loops underneath at slower speeds HELP

[cynthiab]

Hi guys,

I don't know if I'm posting in the right place, but here goes.

I have a singer 111w155 I'm using T208 thread with a #23 leather needle on 1/8 thick chrome tanned leather and thick poly webbing (about 1/8th thick) sewing them together.

If I stitch at a faster speed I get little if any looping underneath. I would prefer no looping of course... Here is the real problem, if I slow down or stop or just stitch slower I get big loops underneath. Also if I turn a sharp corner, you guessed it, I get a loop.

To fix this I have replaced the tension group. That helped a little bit, my old tension was pretty beat... but I still have the looping just not AS bad.

I have fiddled with the tension spring, that didn't cure it.

I tried different sized needles, nope, didn't work.

I have re-threaded the machine, nope, didn't work.

In the photo you can see where I slowed down, loops, and where I sewed faster, no loops.

I know someone posted about this a while back but I cant find that post.

So... Any ideas on how to get this machine to stop making big loop underneath?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Garyak]

23 minutes ago, cynthiab said:

Hi guys,

I don't know if I'm posting in the right place, but here goes.

I have a singer 111w155 I'm using T208 thread with a #23 leather needle on 1/8 thick chrome tanned leather and thick poly webbing (about 1/8th thick) sewing them together.

If I stitch at a faster speed I get little if any looping underneath. I would prefer no looping of course... Here is the real problem, if I slow down or stop or just stitch slower I get big loops underneath. Also if I turn a sharp corner, you guessed it, I get a loop.

To fix this I have replaced the tension group. That helped a little bit, my old tension was pretty beat... but I still have the looping just not AS bad.

I have fiddled with the tension spring, that didn't cure it.

I tried different sized needles, nope, didn't work.

I have re-threaded the machine, nope, didn't work.

In the photo you can see where I slowed down, loops, and where I sewed faster, no loops.

I know someone posted about this a while back but I cant find that post.

So... Any ideas on how to get this machine to stop making big loop underneath?

Thank you for your time.

 

 

[kgg]

8 hours ago, cynthiab said:

I have a singer 111w155 I'm using T208 thread with a #23 leather needle

The #23 size needle I think is better suited to V138 (T135) so I would try a #24 needle with your T210 thread as it would a larger hole for the thread to pass through and the loop to be properly formed. Also hold both threads when starting to sew but make sure your bobbin is not over filled ( 80 % of capacity) and the bobbin tension is adjusted. If the bobbin tensioner spring was over tighten or is worn out you will not be able correct bobbin tension.

A couple of video's that may help with checking the threading, bobbin and the bobbin case for problems:

i) Juki LU 562 Bobbin Case Removal, How to load the bobbin and lift the thread ( similar bobbin case arrangement): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvEsOKqdPZ4

ii) Threading a Singer 111w155 Vintage Industrial Walking Foot Sewing Machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkuf0__HzD0

kgg

[Wyowally]

The case opener might be just ticking that bobbin thread when going slow, pulling extra on the top. My early morning before coffee guess.

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, Wyowally said:

The case opener might be just ticking that bobbin thread when going slow, pulling extra on the top. My early morning before coffee guess.

What he said! I see this on one of my machines when I push its thread size limits. 

Another thing you need to consider is what needle point would work best with a combination of leather and webbing. Normally, when sewing just leather you would use a leather point needle of some shape. However, when sewing cloth or woven synthetic materials, the better shape is a standard round point. The round hole gives more clearance in these materials than a leather point. Plus, a leather point can actually slice the strands apart in webbing and weaken it. A round point simply pushes the strands out of the way.

[cynthiab]

Thank you all for your very astute suggestions... From needle selection to tension suggestions, all are very valid and I looked into all of them. However, last night I removed the cover plate to watch the bobbin threads in action. What I saw was the thread was getting hung up on the little tab on the bobbin case that goes under the feedog plate. Which got me to thinking about this ole machine.  When I bought this machine a few years ago I was told it was a 115.... I'm pretty sure is not. I'm not 100 percent sure what machine this is. The stitch length selector starts at 5 . So, maybe it is a 153 or 154?

So do I have no business trying to run a T208 through this machine?

This leads me to my next question for you wonderful people is... How do I find out what machine I have? The serial numbers have been removed.

I have heard that you can tell by the height of the foot lift. But, if I'm measuring foot lift... Is that measuring done when the presser foot is lifted to move the fabric (lower lift position) or when it is at the high lift position (to disengage the tension disk)? Or is it the height the walking foot lifts while working?

LAST question, I promise. I use 16oz and  8oz  size cones of 92 and 138 thread and I have noticed that the thread spools out with VERY uneven tension from my cones. I have a net on the cones and when the thread is coming from the bottom of the cone it is VERY hard to pull off. I have experimented with sliding the net all the way down until there is only 1/2 inch of net just at the very bottom. That didn't help.  Ive tried to raise or lower my cones to see if that would help, nope. So is there some magical position I should have my cones set at to get a smoother and even pull off? Or are there special cone nets that are better than others?

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, cynthiab said:

However, last night I removed the cover plate to watch the bobbin threads in action. What I saw was the thread was getting hung up on the little tab on the bobbin case that goes under the feed dog plate. Which got me to thinking about this ole machine. So do I have no business trying to run a T208 through this machine?

Normally, I run anything larger than #138 in a Singer 111 series machine, unless it has been expertly modified, or custom adjusted for such large and hard to bend thread. If the #207 thread happens to be softly bonded it might be easier for it to bend to bring up the bobbin thread.  I have been able to run #207 in my Singer 168 post machine by moving the hook far enough away from the needle so it doesn't touch it, but just catches the loop as the needle begins its ascent, and retime the hook. Then, I had to fine tune the case opener, increase the foot pressure, loosen the bobbin spring tension and increase the top tension, plus use a #24 needle. When these changes are made the machine no longer sewed as reliably with #69 or 92 thread and a #18 or #19 needle. Also, a G size bobbin doesn't hold very much #207 bonded thread.

As for your thread spool problems, all I can advise you is to invest in higher quality thread. Buy from a supplier that offers returns and refunds, or exchanges. I can tell you that some spools of dark brown, blue and black thread are stiffer than lighter colors.

[cynthiab]

Thank you Wizcraft,

That's pretty interesting. The worst trouble Ive had was with my 138 white thread. It almost gritty feeling when unwinding from the base, and on all my cones, regardless of thread type, it is much harder to pull thread when its at the bottom of the cone. Is that a standard thing? I buy all my threads from The Thread Exchange. Do you have another place to suggest?

[Wyowally]

Are you using a thread stand that routes the thread up above the cone?  Trying to picture the difficulty unwinding.  A picture of your machine might help identify it.  Amann Serabond poly #92 thread makes my machine happy. Wondering if you've made progress at all on the looping.

[Wizcrafts]

6 hours ago, cynthiab said:

I buy all my threads from The Thread Exchange. Do you have another place to suggest?

There are better brands available to the trade. Look into Superior 6,6 bonded thread from superiorthreads.com, or Amann Strongbond from Wawak.com. I have good success with Cowboy thread from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. I also have some Amann Serabond bonded polyester I got from Toledo Industrial. It is softer than most bonded thread.

When choosing a bonded thread, if the item is going to be exposed to direct Sunlight and UV radiation, choose bonded polyester. Otherwise, bonded nylon is the norm. It is stronger and is less expensive per pound.

[kgg]

13 hours ago, cynthiab said:

The worst trouble Ive had was with my 138 white thread. It almost gritty feeling when unwinding from the base, and on all my cones, regardless of thread type, it is much harder to pull thread when its at the bottom of the cone.

A couple of things:

i) Bad spool of thread -- Replace

ii) Poor quality thread -- Replace and buy brand name thread. To add to Wiz's recommendations consider A&E thread. I use this thread in the 16 oz spool size and have never had a problem.

iii) Mounting arrangement of the spool of thread --- If possible could you post a photo of how you have your spool of the thread mounted. The distance from the top of the spool of thread too the thread stand guide hole should be at least 2 times the height of spool of thread.

iv) Dark thread is usually stiffer. Bonded nylon is stiffer then bonded polyester

v) Size of spool of thread can also effect how the thread reacts as it comes off the spool.

vi) Larger spools have less problems with spring memory then smaller spools. More problems with 4oz then with 8 oz which has more problems then 16 oz.

kgg

[Quade]

I just want to say that there's a bunch of good information in this topic. 

[shoepatcher]

On 3/14/2023 at 2:47 PM, cynthiab said:

Thank you all for your very astute suggestions... From needle selection to tension suggestions, all are very valid and I looked into all of them. However, last night I removed the cover plate to watch the bobbin threads in action. What I saw was the thread was getting hung up on the little tab on the bobbin case that goes under the feedog plate. Which got me to thinking about this ole machine.  When I bought this machine a few years ago I was told it was a 115.... I'm pretty sure is not. I'm not 100 percent sure what machine this is. The stitch length selector starts at 5 . So, maybe it is a 153 or 154?

So do I have no business trying to run a T208 through this machine?

This leads me to my next question for you wonderful people is... How do I find out what machine I have? The serial numbers have been removed.

I have heard that you can tell by the height of the foot lift. But, if I'm measuring foot lift... Is that measuring done when the presser foot is lifted to move the fabric (lower lift position) or when it is at the high lift position (to disengage the tension disk)? Or is it the height the walking foot lifts while working?

LAST question, I promise. I use 16oz and  8oz  size cones of 92 and 138 thread and I have noticed that the thread spools out with VERY uneven tension from my cones. I have a net on the cones and when the thread is coming from the bottom of the cone it is VERY hard to pull off. I have experimented with sliding the net all the way down until there is only 1/2 inch of net just at the very bottom. That didn't help.  Ive tried to raise or lower my cones to see if that would help, nope. So is there some magical position I should have my cones set at to get a smoother and even pull off? Or are there special cone nets that are better than others?

Singer 111W155   Max. thread to use on machine is #138.  You will have problems w trying to run #207.

glenn

[cynthiab]

shoepatcher

Thank you I'm seeing that it is the case