New Member and mystery machine

[piningforfjords]

Hi and thanks for this site.  It is a great resource for people navigating the world of industrial sewing machines.  Figure I read enough here that I  should join up and also I had a question I was having difficulty with.  I don't think there is a better place to ask.  I have come into an industrial walking foot sewing machine.  It has triple material feed (needle feed).  Seems to have the oversized U bobbin as well.  It had been languishing on marketplace for a long time.  The owner just needed to get rid of it.  He got it for free from a relative that was going to trash it.  Looked like a Pfaff to me from the sales photos but it has been repainted and "rebranded" at some point.  Limited test run and seems to run find but haven't had thread in it yet.  I have since realized it is in a family of similar machines Juki 563/Consew 226 {others?).  I haven't found a brand/example that has the serial number as a brass plate on the lower right.  I would like to figure out make / model to find a manual and potentially some parts.  How interchangeable are the parts between these various machines?  

Tom

Into camera holsters and sailmaking.

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Edited April 10, 2023 by piningforfjords
Figured I needed some intro text

[kgg]

52 minutes ago, piningforfjords said:

I would like to figure out make / model to find a manual and potentially some parts. 

To me it looks like a Singer 111W. First I thought it maybe a Juki but the only machines that come to mind with the serial numbers embedded into the machines bed were the Singers.

kgg

[piningforfjords]

Thanks.  That makes a lot of sense and yes the model appears quite close.  It kind of surprises me.  Some speculation on my part but appears Goldsworthy was a local company selling this model and trying to make money selling the parts as well.  I have an envelope of needles that has the Goldsworthy brand and recommendation to only use genuine replacement parts.  With such a well known brand I would expect customers in the industry to know what was going on.

Edit:  It doesn't look like any of the 111W variants had reverse.  But the serial number pretty solidly makes it look like a Singer.

Edited April 10, 2023 by piningforfjords
quick update

[dikman]

I'd agree with it being a Singer 111. Trying to figure out exactly which model can be tricky as they tend to look alike!

It looks like it might be fitted with a piping foot?

[Northmount]

@piningforfjords Moved your post to leather sewing machines.

PLEASE post your photos here.  3rd party hosted photos often disappear due to changes in the host's policies, going out of business, owner moving or deleting photos.  Then the thread becomes useless to anyone researching or interested in the topic.  If your photos are too big, use a file resizer to reduce the file size.

 

[AlZilla]

That lever on the right side ought to be a clue. Doesn't tell ME anything, but maybe someone.

[piningforfjords]

I would agree everything points to a 111 but the only thing that doesn't fit is the reverse pedal and looking underneath (which is painted Singer black) the reverse mechanism is mounted to two cast pillars that aren't used by anything else.  Unless there is a 111 that lists that feature it has to be another model/submodel.  Just a mystery at this point I am sure I can use parts/manuals from the other machines.  I am going to look at some other indicators like the max presser foot height and the maximum stitch length because those seem to be the things that differentiate these other models.  Will resize and post the pictures.  The reason I posted links is when I first tried to create a post it was asking for link since I wasn't a member at that point.  So I created the links.  Will also spend a bit more time investigating.  I thought it would be an easier id but this has helped me a lot.

   Yes it is a piping foot.  You can see a reel of piping in the background.  That came with the machine as well as a table, clutch motor, needles and half filled bobbins.

[piningforfjords]

Seems the Singer 111G156 has reverse just not the style of handle seen on my machine (found on this site).  I will keep the quest up for an exact match but I figure enough of the mystery is resolved.  Well report back if I find anything definitive.

[Constabulary]

No Singer serial number IMO - I´d say Consew 226 or Seiko STW-8B

[kgg]

2 hours ago, piningforfjords said:

Seems the Singer 111G156 has reverse just not the style of handle seen on my machine (found on this site). 

I took another look at your photo's. The side photo where the one with Goldsworthy's tag is visible shows two small holes in the casing just under the "G and the "S". Which indicates a name tag placement. In this case it would be for the "CONSEW". Also from that you can figure it was a Consew 226 which used the Singer 111W155 casing. A reference video would be " Consew 226 Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about this walking foot industrial sewing machine " ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBF0ECECi4c).

The Consew 226 or Seiko STW-8B and if I'm not mistake the Juki 563 are based on the Singer 111W155 casing.

In your last photo there appears to be lettering and numbering stamped into the presser foot bar which may help determine if they are Singer parts.

 

kgg

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by kgg

[Handstitched]

4 hours ago, Constabulary said:

No Singer serial number IMO - I´d say Consew 226 or Seiko STW-8B

Great minds thinks alike. My (early) Seiko STW 28B looks the same, except a twin needle (used as a single)  with reverse. But looking at the flywheel , more like a 226 . 

4 hours ago, kgg said:

The Consew 226 or Seiko STW-8B and if I'm not mistake the Juki 563 are based on the Singer 111W155 casing.

The drive belt may also reveal a brand name like mine does. 

HS

[piningforfjords]

Those label mount holes are pretty incriminating.  The reverse level definitely looks like a Consew/Juki or Seiko style.  I have read that Singer did issue serial numbers with WB starting in 1967.  Nobody else seems to have those darn serial # plates.  Drive belt looks generic.  From the state of the paint I would guess that this machine saw heavy use before it was rebranded.  There are wear marks/chips that are on the original coat that the top coat was applied over.  I think the rebadging was done on well used machines so individual parts might not be reliable indicators.   Thanks for the insights.

 

[DonInReno]

Based on the rough fit and finish, this is definitely not a rebranded 1st quality machine, but a generic version made for whoever wants to put their name on it.   You or I can order 100 machines just like this from a dozen different Chinese suppliers and they will put whatever name on you’d like - cheap low quality parts or higher cost higher quality parts - low cost painted casting, or filled and sanded higher cost finish.

Generic Juki 562/3 adjustment information is all you really need - this design has been copied by a lot of companies, but there isn’t much difference in how they are adjusted.

[Quade]

I notice the casting is pretty rough. Rougher than I'd expect from a Consew.   I suspect it's a Chinese or Indian clone of a Consew. 

[DonInReno]

21 hours ago, piningforfjords said:

How interchangeable are the parts between these various machines?

Bobbins, bobbin cases, case opener, hooks, presser feet, tension disks, timing belt, and many other parts will almost certainly interchange with any other juki 563 or similar machine - industrial machines are practical if nothing else and nobody would buy a machine that needed special parts unless there was a financial benefit from doing so.

We are all too young to remember the old days when small cast iron foundries were everywhere - when mom and pop shops made a lot of parts for medium size manufacturers.  

China has mega factories, but it also has a huge number of mom and pop shops producing parts - their system has a lot of incentives for small and medium manufacturing.  There are still small foundries that you can walk up to and order rough cast sewing machine parts based on something they have cast before, or changed at a much higher price to use a hodgepodge of parts.  Same for all the other parts in a sewing machine.  However, for cost reasons there is a gigantic benefit to using cheap parts that don’t need to be redesigned and have a great track record already.

I did see a video of an interesting visit to a mom and pop shop with a few well used cnc machines creating generic commodity parts - whatever the market was paying the most for at that time - labor cost is so low the machines run as many hours as possible - essentially 24x7.  A few years later they had quadrupled with more machines.   

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by DonInReno

[Handstitched]

34 minutes ago, piningforfjords said:

Nobody else seems to have those darn serial # plates

It took me ages to find it in my list of old  emails, but  by my serial # is : 

STW28-B serial number ' WS-6611007 '. It was produced in 1966. . I contacted Seiko in Japan back in 2015.  Not sure if this is of any use at all, but just thought I'd share in case anyone else needs info.  Thats all the info Seiko could find "  because it is the too old machine."  Their words.

HS 

 

[CowboyBob]

51 minutes ago, Quade said:

I notice the casting is pretty rough. Rougher than I'd expect from a Consew.   I suspect it's a Chinese or Indian clone of a Consew. 

It's a lousy repaint by Goldsworthy of either a Consew 226R or Seiko,look how they painted over the rod on the backside,even the needlebar & pressure bar have paint on them!They used to put their name on brand new Pfaff's too,

Edited April 11, 2023 by CowboyBob

[piningforfjords]

Starting to feel like beating a dead horse.  I agree the paint job is atrocious.  What is even more surprising is that the paint job is on top of a heavily worn machine.  Goldsworthy is a older company folded around 2000.  

Handstitched: Thanks for looking that up.  Those line up pretty well.  Did it have a label on the bed similar to the picture?

The good news if like DonInReno says the parts are pretty ubiquitous and mostly interchangeable. Something I did noticed when following up my suspicions about it being a Consew - there are a lot of other models listed on these parts - and the parts are so cheap.

Anyway I appreciate all your thoughts and help with this.

Edited April 11, 2023 by piningforfjords
grammar, minor detail

[DonInReno]

It would be fun to know the history - where it was used in its past life, how did Goldsworthy acquire it and what color is it under the new paint.  An inexpensive triple feed with reverse is hard to beat, regardless of who made it originally.

I also have an old mystery machine that was labeled Singer, but doesn't have a single Singer part in it.  It’s Singer-ish.   

 

[Handstitched]

8 minutes ago, DonInReno said:

An inexpensive triple feed with reverse is hard to beat, regardless of who made it originally.

I agree. I rely on reverse to do the stuff that I do.. Just give it a good service, if it needs it , and enjoy it . Parts and needles  etc are easy to get. 

Although, I can never find an  instruction manual  specific for the STW- 28B's ( twin needle)  , so I use a 226 manual instead. 

HS

[piningforfjords]

I know!  History is such a cool facet of these old machines.  I found linkedIn entry for a sewing technician that worked for the company for 9 years in the 90s.  He had his own company here for a while but it is nowhere to be found.

  I have noticed the thread tensioner is branded Seiko but I expect those get swapped out and it appears newer than the machine.  I have yet to find a place (beside the underside) that gives me a good indication of the original paint colour.

I've cleaned and oiled the machine without major disassembly.   I am not able to remove the left part of the needle plate.  Around the feed dogs the plate comes off and above the bobbin the plate slides off but the other plate is jammed on there.  Only other area of concern I noticed while cleaning is the safety clutch (attached) that looks a bit less pretty than some of the videos I have seen.  Looks like a bit of a hack fastening the pin with a bit of bent wire.  We've all done it I suspect.

I drove away with this machine a bit concerned with not being able to find any info on it.  Several people passed it by.  For $150 CAD I consider myself pretty fortunate in the end.  Cheers

 

[Handstitched]

3 hours ago, piningforfjords said:

Around the feed dogs the plate comes off and above the bobbin the plate slides off but the other plate is jammed on there

The issue I have with mine is the screw at the front of feed dog plate is so old and worn that it just comes loose with vibration, so I just use a bit of' Loctite '. Hard to find another  amongst my junk as its a ' counter sink' type scew.  The plate  to the left  should come off, it may need a bit of ' gentle persuasion ' .  The other thing I noticed is the exterior of your belt. Looks like is been rubbing against something? Or is it a bit of paint over spray?  

I find the reverse very helpful , can't work without it    While its origins may be a mystery,  I think $150 is a good investment.  I so envy the piping foot, not available for mine.

Have fun   

HS

 

[piningforfjords]

Thanks.  Yeah reverse seems like more than a nice to have.  Those screws on the feed dog plate are pretty awkward.  I need to get a flat ratchet for 1/4 bits.  

That is an insightful comment about the belt.  It actually has uneven wear on the surface like it has been gouged in places and it comes really close to the back wall of the machine.  When rotating there is a place where the belt flexes and appears like it should touch.  I put a piece of masking tape on the belt and ran it a bit and then brought it up to full speed.  Tape was not worn, gouged or damaged.  I have to see what else I can try to test for this.  I might paint something on the belt to monitor.  Always worried about things that could degrade a belt (paint/ink solvents).  Motor (1725)/pulley(3.5") combo seems too fast for what I would like so I will have to look into addressing that.  Those clutch motors spin forever after the power is shut off.

Consew motor, Seiko tensioner, gah!

[dikman]

In their own way clutch motors are very nice motors, well-built and almost bullet-proof! Considering the machine only cost you $150, I reckon you should be able to treat it to a servo motor (best thing you can do for it).

[Handstitched]

18 hours ago, piningforfjords said:

Those clutch motors spin forever after the power is shut off.

Yeh...I noticed  that too  You can even hit the foot pedal after its turned off  and it will keep going for about a doz turns.  Love these machines  

HS