thread

[Moti]

Two threads of the same size 92, but one of them seems to be thicker than the other

way?

 

[kgg]

44 minutes ago, Moti said:

but one of them seems to be thicker than the other

Yes both are Tex 90 but one, the top one is a Bonded Nylon and the other is a Bonded Polyester. The Bonded Nylon is physically thicker, stronger and to make matters more noticeable the Bonded Polyester is softer but handles UV and bleach much better.

kgg

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by kgg

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

Yes both are Tex 90 but one, the top one is a Bonded Nylon and the other is a Bonded Polyester. The Bonded Nylon is physically thicker, stronger and to make matters more noticeable the Bonded Polyester is softer but handles UV and bleach much better.

kgg

 

I don't know about the bottom one but the top one, Sunstop is NOT Bonded Nylon but rather it is Bonded Polyester.  That's the thread I use just about always.

[Moti]

2 hours ago, kgg said:

Yes both are Tex 90 but one, the top one is a Bonded Nylon and the other is a Bonded Polyester. The Bonded Nylon is physically thicker, stronger and to make matters more noticeable the Bonded Polyester is softer but handles UV and bleach much better.

kgg

 

Both are bonded polyester 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

I don't know about the bottom one but the top one, Sunstop is NOT Bonded Nylon but rather it is Bonded Polyester.

Sorry about that my mistake. Both are Bonded Polyester and then it comes do to how  those are processed.

kgg

[Moti]

I'm pretty sure I only bought polyester

[CowboyBob]

33 minutes ago, Moti said:

I'm pretty sure I only bought polyester

Is the sunstop wick the larger one?

[Moti]

39 minutes ago, CowboyBob said:

Is the sunstop wick the larger one?

Yes

[MtlBiker]

38 minutes ago, CowboyBob said:

Is the sunstop wick the larger one?

The larger one, the top Sunstop is 8oz based on the marked length and the bottom one says 4oz, so that's a smaller spool.

I've never used Fil-Tek thread but have been very happy with the Sunstop I've been using.  Black is always thicker/stiffer than the other colors I find.

[TomE]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

Black is always thicker/stiffer than the other colors I find.

Yes, and true for black bonded nylon as well.

[Wizcrafts]

12 years ago, I was using black, #138, bonded nylon thread from Weaver Leather that came off the spool like a coil spring. It was so coily that it got wrapped around itself on the guide posts and even the eye of the needle!

However, years before that, I had a similar problem with CanSew black bonded thread and that prompted me to ask the sales agent why this was happening on only their black thread. She told me it was because the black thread was double-dyed with a dark blue dip followed by a black dip. When we asked the guru at Weaver he told us that their black thread was double-dyed. This is why black bonded thread is firmer and springier than most other colors. This is for both nylon and polyester. Black polyester would be a little softer than black nylon, but stiffer than any lighter colors. 

7 hours ago, kgg said:

Both are Bonded Polyester and then it comes do to how  those are processed.

 

 

[TomE]

Thanks for the info, @Wizcrafts. Appreciate knowing the whys and hows of machine sewing. 

[Moti]

16 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

Is the sunstop wick the larger one?

Yes

[CowboyBob]

1 hour ago, Moti said:

Yes

I'm no thread expert BUT,the wick thread is for canvas & should expand & fill the needle hole when it gets wet to prevent leaks.

[AlZilla]

A tangent, but related. Is #92 or #138 or whatever "size" a diameter or breaking strength? I had assumed "size" was a diameter.

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, AlZilla said:

A tangent, but related. Is #92 or #138 or whatever "size" a diameter or breaking strength? I had assumed "size" was a diameter.

When we mention a threads "size," we are referring to its diameter, not its breaking strength. There are different standards of measurement that equate a diameter to a numeric size and they don't always line up perfectly. For instance, the prefix #, b, or v indicates a bonded multistrand, or unbonded monofilament thread. The prefix T indicates the TEX * system of measurement.  The abbreviation TKT ** is a totally different system called TICKET. The following numbers all mean the same size thread: 

• #138
• v138
• b138
• T135 
• Tkt 20

What they all have in common is their basic diameter of .0163 inches, or .414 mm. The governing bodies that set standards allow for some variation due to the manufacturing processes and effects of dyeing and the bonding agent used. That's why some brands claiming to be size 138 will have a slightly different diameter. But, the difference should be a small percentage of the stated number. If it reaches 50%, that thread is probably an inbetween size that was given the nearest label to make it easier to sell. I have some thread that is size 105. It is larger than my b92, but thinner than any b138. This particular thread was honestly labeled as 105. I chose to buy it for those projects that called for something a little beefier than #92, but easier to hide the knots than #138

You can see the conversions between thread sizes 33 through 554 on the Needle and Thread Chart on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines website. It includes addition measurements for Government sizes and weight per pound and breaking strength.

* Tex.- Tex can be defined as the weight present in 1000 meter of yarn in grams where length of yarn is fixed. It means that, for example, if there is a 1000 meter of yarn and have a weight of 20gm then the yarn count will be 20tex. Because tex refers the weight in gram of unit length.

** Tkt - A ticket number in one type of thread will not be the same as in another. For example, Ticket 20 Cotton is not the same as Ticket 20 Corespun, or bonded nylon, or bonded polyester.

Ticket numbers resemble the fixed weight system. The higher the ticket number, finer the thread and the lower the ticket number, the thicker the thread. 

[Wizcrafts]

I just found a good definition of the common US and Canadian commercial thread numbering system for bonded threads. Commercial sizes are set sizes of 33, 46, 69, 92, 138, 207, 277, 346, 415 and 554. They are the thread’s denier divided by 10.

den (denier): Grams per 9,000 metres of yarn. Den is a direct measure of linear density. The denier is based on a natural reference: a single strand of silk is approximately one denier; a 9000-metre strand of silk weighs about one gram.

[AlZilla]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

I just found a good definition of the common US and Canadian commercial thread numbering system for bonded threads. Commercial sizes are set sizes of 33, 46, 69, 92, 138, 207, 277, 346, 415 and 554. They are the thread’s denier divided by 10.

den (denier): Grams per 9,000 metres of yarn. Den is a direct measure of linear density. The denier is based on a natural reference: a single strand of silk is approximately one denier; a 9000-metre strand of silk weighs about one gram.

As always, the detailed knowledge bombs are appreciated.  Much to learn in this little hobby ...

[DonInReno]

I went through a phase of measuring diameter and breaking strength of any thread that I came into contact with and the numbers were all over the place, especially with cheap thread being on the smaller side generally, but not always the weakest.

All the thread broke at more, sometimes much more weight, than generic charts would suggest.   Thread that produced the nicest looking stitches and kept a nice round profile was often the weakest.

To test breaking strength it works great to wrap about 8-10 turns of thread around a smooth S-hook on one end and the same amount of wraps around the hook of a decent quality 100lb capacity spring scale on the other.  Without knots it seems to show nearly the pure thread strength with some breaks happening in the middle and others near an end, with similar readings.  I was rather surprised that none of the thread slipped on the round steel hooks, but it was carefully wrapped over itself to try and lock it in place.