Consew 202rb

[PISTOLs]

Im new at using a Consew and I am having difficulty finding any information on the Consew 202rb.  I found it at an estate sale and I'm having problems with needle breakage.  I have tried to put together a reasonable working manual (using models before the 202 and after it) since Consew does not have a manual in their resources, just the parts list.  

My issue is the machine seems to purr right along and then after about 20 minutes of sewing it breaks the needle.  I have noticed a dent in my bobbin case but I don't know if this was there when I bought it or not. I ordered a replacement bobbin case for the 206RB (M style) hoping it would fit, but it doesn't.   I'm using #69 thread and a 135x16 needle as I was told the 16 is for leather instead of the 17.  

If anyone knows this machine or if there is a source for a manual can you please help me.  I am mainly using it to sew patches on leather vest for motorcycle riders.  

[Northmount]

38 minutes ago, PISTOLs said:

Im new at using a Consew and I am having difficulty finding any information on the Consew 202rb.

Moved your post to Leather Sewing Machines.  You'll get more help here as this is where the machine guys hang out.

 

[MtlBiker]

@PISTOLs - Yes, the 135x16 needle is for leather.  What size needle are you using with your v69 thread?  Have you tried going up one size which sometimes helps.  Hmmm, I read that as you are breaking threads, but realize you're talking about the needle itself.  Funny that you can sew fine for 20 minutes and that then the needle breaks.  Is there anything different in your fabric assembly when that happens?  Surely you're not sewing for 20 minutes non-stop... there must be stops and starts, new assemblies being sewn.  Are you new to industrial machines in general, or only new to that 202rb?  Are you holding the top thread tightly as you begin your sewing?  Do your stitches look alright up until the needle breaks?  Or do you have thread nests on the under side?  Maybe if you post some photos (maybe even a video) someone here would be able to give advice.  Good luck!
 

[PISTOLs]

@MtlBiker What size needle are you using with your v69 thread?  135 x 16 Groz-Beckert LR/RTW Have you tried going up one size which sometimes helps.  I will try a 135 x 17 and see if that helps.  Is there anything different in your fabric assembly when that happens?  Not really, it pretty much is one layer of leather and a patch  Surely you're not sewing for 20 minutes non-stop... there must be stops and starts, new assemblies being sewn. Yes, I am sewing patches so there are start and stops and corners to turn.  It seems that every adjustment I make works really good on my test leather and then I begin to sew (3.5 stitch length) and after a time I hear a light thud or jump and I know something about to happen and before I can get my project to a stoping point the needle breaks  Are you new to industrial machines in general, or only new to that 202rb? Yes I m new to industrial machines but have ben sewing using a household machine for about 3 years. Are you holding the top thread tightly as you begin your sewing?  Yes Do your stitches look alright up until the needle breaks?  Yes they look really good Or do you have thread nests on the under side? No  nests.  Do you know if there is supposed to be play in the needle bar & presser foot bar?  As I was changing my needle and placing  the presser foot back on ( I rethread the upper and lower thread after the needle breaks) and while I was tightening the screw, I notice that both bars move forward a little.  Is it possible the needle bar is moving as I sew?  Mostly the broken end of the needle is found in a stitch on the underneath of the project.  I don't have a manual and the 205 206 have different mechanisms Thant the 202 so trying to find the right place to make the adjustments is a little frustrating.  If you tell me what pictures you would like to see I can post them. Thanks 

[Northmount]

10 minutes ago, PISTOLs said:

What size needle are you using with your v69 thread?  135 x 16 Groz-Beckert LR/RTW Have you tried going up one size which sometimes helps.  I will try a 135 x 17 and see if that helps. 

135x16 is a leather point needle, not a size.  135x17 is for sewing fabrics, not a size.  These are needle systems designations.  It relates to the type of point, and length of the needle.

Take a look at this needle chart that lists needle and thread sizes.

[PISTOLs]

I understand that 135 x 16 is the system. My bad for not adding

 100/16 for needle size

Edited July 26, 2023 by PISTOLs

[MtlBiker]

@PISTOLs - As @Northmount already replied, you haven't answered what SIZE needle you are using with the v92 thread.  135x16 and 135x17 are needle systems.

Does the problem happen most often when you turn a corner or does it also happen along straight stretches?  When you come to a turn, make sure you bury the needle, lift the pressure foot, turn your assembly and lower the presser foot again before continuing to sew. 

2 minutes ago, PISTOLs said:

I understand that 135 x 16 is the system. My bad for not adding

 100/16 for needle size

That needle is at the lower end of what's recommended for v92.  Can you try switching to a #18 needle to see if your problem persists?

 

[PISTOLs]

Size needle is 16. The problem happens at any time and is not specific to turning corner.  I have a positioner so when I stop I am always in the down position.  I also turn my covers exactly as you quoted.  

 

[kgg]

13 minutes ago, PISTOLs said:

I understand that 135 x 16 is the system. My bad for not adding

 100/16 for needle size

You never mention how thick the items are that you are trying to sew. The 100/16 needle is really the bottom end for sewing with V69 in thin items or for V46 in thicker items. In thicker / tougher items move up to a size 19 or  20 needle. The problems to me sounds like the needle is being bent / deflected and with such a thin needle, size 16,  it is going to be prone to breaking even with a tuned machine.

kgg

[PISTOLs]

@kgg   I am sewing patches on leather vests, mostly leather motorcycle vests. The thickness of each vest really depends on the leather used.  Since I can't test the material I have to try to make an adjustment that will work with for all vests.  

[MtlBiker]

43 minutes ago, PISTOLs said:

@kgg   I am sewing patches on leather vests, mostly leather motorcycle vests. The thickness of each vest really depends on the leather used.  Since I can't test the material I have to try to make an adjustment that will work with for all vests.  

Unfortunately, there is no one size that fits all.  Tension, needle size, etc. will vary depending on the thickness of the leather, it's hardness (softer chrome tan vs veg tan) and I think you should be trying a larger needle as I and @kgg both suggested.  And by experience you may find after a couple of stitches that you need to tweek the thread tension.  Are you also by any chance using black thread sometimes and another color at other times?  That too would probably require a tension adjustment.  Black thread (because of the dye is my understanding) is stiffer than other colors.

I suggest you first try a larger needle and see if that reduces the problem.

By the way, if you want someone to be flagged about a reply, it's not enough to write @kgg as you did... you need to start typing the @ and then the name and you MUST pick it from the popup that appears.  Like I did earlier in this reply.

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by MtlBiker

[CowboyBob]

@PISTOLs You mention the motor is set to stop down,it's possible when you stop if you turn the material the needle could bend.You need to make sure the positioner is adjusted so the needle bar raises approx 3/8" the the point of the hook is past the needle.

[PISTOLs]

 

@MtlBikerthanks for you input, but if you notice (See below) I did properly tag you as I am aware of how to tag.  Unfortunately, @kgg did not appear on the drop down list the first time I tried to respond.  

@MtlBiker What size needle are you using with your v69 thread?  135 x 16 Groz-Beckert LR/RTW Have you tried going up one size which sometimes helps.  I will try a 135 x 17 and see if that helps.  Is there anything different in your fabric assembly when that happens?  Not really, it pretty much is one layer of leather and a patch  Surely you're not sewing for 20 minutes non-stop... there must be stops and starts, new assemblies being sewn. Yes, I am sewing patches so there are start and stops and corners to turn.  It seems that every adjustment I make works really good on my test leather and then I begin to sew (3.5 stitch length) and after a time I hear a light thud or jump and I know something about to happen and before I can get my project to a stoping point the needle breaks  Are you new to industrial machines in general, or only new to that 202rb? Yes I m new to industrial machines but have ben sewing using a household machine for about 3 years. Are you holding the top thread tightly as you begin your sewing?  YesDo your stitches look alright up until the needle breaks?  Yes they look really good Or do you have thread nests on the under side? No  n

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, PISTOLs said:

@kgg   I am sewing patches on leather vests, mostly leather motorcycle vests. The thickness of each vest really depends on the leather used.  Since I can't test the material I have to try to make an adjustment that will work with for all vests.  

Sewing on patches is a large part of my business. When I first got into that field, I was using v92 thread and a #19 (120) leather point needle. I have since moved to only using v69 thread, top and bottom, with a #18 round point needle (GB Gebeder, or Schmetz Serv 7). I also recently bought 7 spools of v45 thread and some #14 round point needles (Serv 7) for poorly edged patches. My round point needles are all System 135x17.

The reason I switched to round points has to do with the embroidered (serged) edges. I found that leather points were actually cutting the thread on the edges, rather than separating them. Round points don't do that as much. I also prefer round holes to anything with a shift between stitches. Most of the patches the customers bring in have tight border stitching. But, some are overly loose. When I run into trouble using #69 thread with a #18 needle, I can move down to #45 thread and a #14 needle. I crank down the foot pressure screw to minimize any deflection from the patch, leather and lining.

In case you're interested in the machines I use to sew patches, they are as follows:

• Adler 30-7 patcher with a long arm and large bobbin (in shop)
• Singer 29k71 short arm, small bobbin patcher (at home)
• Singer 168g101 compound feed post bed machine (at home)
• Singer 139w109 long bed walking foot machine with a Juki LU bobbin conversion (in shop)
• Singer 111w103 walking foot machine (at home)

The reason for the split between home and shop machines is that the place of business that hosted us closed up on December 31, 2022. That put me and my partner out of work. We finally found a new location to setup the shop, but there just wasn't enough room for the three other machine. Also, I was able to sew patches at home for a few local MCs. They still prefer to come to my house, so the three machines will stay in my expando.

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, PISTOLs said:

 

 

@MtlBikerthanks for you input, but if you notice (See below) I did properly tag you as I am aware of how to tag.  Unfortunately, @kgg did not appear on the drop down list the first time I tried to respond.  

@MtlBiker What size needle are you using with your v69 thread?  135 x 16 Groz-Beckert LR/RTW Have you tried going up one size which sometimes helps.  I will try a 135 x 17 and see if that helps.  Is there anything different in your fabric assembly when that happens?  Not really, it pretty much is one layer of leather and a patch  Surely you're not sewing for 20 minutes non-stop... there must be stops and starts, new assemblies being sewn. Yes, I am sewing patches so there are start and stops and corners to turn.  It seems that every adjustment I make works really good on my test leather and then I begin to sew (3.5 stitch length) and after a time I hear a light thud or jump and I know something about to happen and before I can get my project to a stoping point the needle breaks  Are you new to industrial machines in general, or only new to that 202rb? Yes I m new to industrial machines but have ben sewing using a household machine for about 3 years. Are you holding the top thread tightly as you begin your sewing?  YesDo your stitches look alright up until the needle breaks?  Yes they look really good Or do you have thread nests on the under side? No  n

I know you tagged me, but you didn't tag kgg, which is why I thought I'd try giving you helpful advice.

[PISTOLs]

@Wizcraftsthank you for that information.

I am used #69 top and bottom with a 16 needle but I am going to try an #18 round point and see if that will stop the needle breakage.  

By a chance do you know if the needle bar should have play in it?  I noticed this and Im wondering if this is why I am breaking the needles?  I am trying to get things set up to do a motorcycle rally in New Richmond in a couple of weeks.   It will be my first one sewing patches.   

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, PISTOLs said:

@Wizcraftsthank you for that information.

I am used #69 top and bottom with a 16 needle but I am going to try an #18 round point and see if that will stop the needle breakage.  

By a chance do you know if the needle bar should have play in it?  I noticed this and Im wondering if this is why I am breaking the needles?  I am trying to get things set up to do a motorcycle rally in New Richmond in a couple of weeks.   It will be my first one sewing patches.   

Get you a couple packs of #18 in Schmetz Serv 7 round points in System 135x17. They have a larger eye and are reinforced to resist bending. They cut through double sided tape well. The next best are Gross Beckert Gebeder in system 135x17. They are titanium coated.

[DonInReno]

Usually broken needles are caused by the material being forced in a direction that bends the needle far enough to make contact with a hard part.   Often, changing how material is fed under the feet is all that’s needed.   A thin needle bends more - I’ll go up one or two sizes larger than normal when sewing difficult items that are likely to put side pressure on the needle (heavy smooth vinyl with thick seams is especially bad).

I’m guessing this machine has a clutch motor and the high speed makes it hard to tell what’s happening when the needle breaks.   Going slower greatly reduces broken needles, but that’s probably easier said than done.

There will be marks left on the part that’s breaking the needles.  Maybe the needle needs to be better centered in the needle plate.  Maybe you simply need a needle plate with larger hole.   Maybe they are breaking on the hook - the condition of the hook’s point is where I’d look next.  It’s possible something up top is loose or worn out allowing too much movement in the needle bar.  I have no idea how many parts are available or what interchanges with the 206.

Hopefully it’s an easy fix.