Junker & Ruh SD28

[Mulesaw]

I found a J&R SD28 on a Danish classified page catering for vintage cars. there's a section for miscellaneous and the machine was suddenly there. 
The seller wanted 500 Danish kroner for it (72 US$), so I figured that it couldn't hurt to buy it.

It was placed quite far from where I live, but I have a friend who happened to be in the neighborhood anyway, so I sent him some money and he paid the seller. 
Now I just need to get it from my friend at some point. But that's no hurry - well and I also need to try to locate some needles for it. From what I have read they are not readily available anymore, so if any of you happen to have a spare needle that you could spare, I'd definitely be interested. It should be a system called 1551 as far as I have been able to gather.

There is one needle on the machine, so I am not completely stuck, but it couldn't hurt to have an extra.

It is kind of strange that even as a adult, finding a bargain like that is able to make you happy. But I like that, since I guess it is proof that even though my age is advancing, my heart and mind is still pretty much what it used to be :-)

I haven't got any pictures of the machine yet, but when I get my hands on the machine at some point, I'll be sure to post them.

[TomE]

Looks like a beast of a machine.  Should be fun to work with.

[Mulesaw]

9 hours ago, TomE said:

Looks like a beast of a machine.  Should be fun to work with.

Yes, I'm looking forward to it. I don't think it is very fast though, but it might be able to do some stitching near hardware etc. :-)

[Handstitched]

I had a good look at one of these machines up close  in our local museum , owned and run by a good friend of mine.  Its amazing what you find when you look around your own ' back yard' . I recognized it straight away after reading about it on here. 

HS

[chrisash]

Often wondered why obsolute needles cannot be hand made in limited quantities, i do realise its not worth the big machines running off a few hundred, but the last time I have seen SD28 needles for sale they were mighty expensive and that was years ago, and i have always wanted that machine as the simple mechanism seems fantastic in our complicated world

[Mulesaw]

On 9/24/2023 at 6:46 AM, Handstitched said:

I had a good look at one of these machines up close  in our local museum , owned and run by a good friend of mine.  Its amazing what you find when you look around your own ' back yard' . I recognized it straight away after reading about it on here. 

HS

I have never seen them before. Actually I haven't even seen my own machine yet, since I got a friend to buy it for me, and he has given it to another friend who lives a bit closer to me, so I need to get to him to pick it up :-) 

From what I was able to scour from the Net, Wilhelm Pedersen in Denmark copied the machine so at least I can get a Danish manual for it.

[Mulesaw]

On 9/24/2023 at 10:09 AM, chrisash said:

Often wondered why obsolute needles cannot be hand made in limited quantities, i do realise its not worth the big machines running off a few hundred, but the last time I have seen SD28 needles for sale they were mighty expensive and that was years ago, and i have always wanted that machine as the simple mechanism seems fantastic in our complicated world

I checked on Schmetz' homepage (I think that was the one, though it could be another manufacturer)

They could make a production run of the needles, I just don't know how many needles I would have to order, but I seriously consider to contact them and ask. 
There seem to be quite a lot of those machines out there, so it ought to be possible to sell the needles, but I guess only if they aren't too costly.

 

[CowboyBob]

2 minutes ago, Mulesaw said:

I checked on Schmetz' homepage (I think that was the one, though it could be another manufacturer)

They could make a production run of the needles, I just don't know how many needles I would have to order, but I seriously consider to contact them and ask. 
There seem to be quite a lot of those machines out there, so it ought to be possible to sell the needles, but I guess only if they aren't too costly.

 

I asked them 10 years ago & the minimum was 10,000 BUT they were bought out by Groz-Beckert a couple yrs ago & things may have changed.

[Mulesaw]

1 minute ago, CowboyBob said:

I asked them 10 years ago & the minimum was 10,000 BUT they were bought out by Groz-Beckert a couple yrs ago & things may have changed.

Jeez that's a lot of needles. 

It is a couple of months since I tried to locate needles, and I couldn't remember which manufacturer it was, just that it was a German one 

I thought that maybe they'd make a series for 500 needles, but 10.000 that's not going to be easy to sell.

[Gunnarsson]

4 hours ago, Mulesaw said:

Jeez that's a lot of needles. 

...

I thought that maybe they'd make a series for 500 needles, but 10.000 that's not going to be easy to sell.

I expect they use machines that are relatively complicated and time consuming to adjust for making a specific needle, but once it's good to go it will keep spitting them out 24/7 with very little work. This means that 500 needles could be done very quickly once the machine is set up for it, perhaps in minutes, and those few needles have to be priced to compensate for the production loss due to spending perhaps hours on adjusting the machine. Those needles would have to be VERY expensive.
If I remember it right the SD28 uses a curved needle, complicating matters even more. Most sewing machine needles are straight, and logically most machines to make them will only be able to make straight needles - there's no point in building machines with features they'll never need. The machines able to make curved needles may not be possible to adjust for another needle radius or such changes may require more or less extensive modifications, including making new machine parts.

So, if it's even possible to find someone who can make the needles they would have to be very expensive, otherwise it would not make any sense to spend the time required to make them.

[Handstitched]

8 hours ago, Mulesaw said:

I have never seen them before.

My friend  ( that has the museum) dropped in yesterday, and I told him ' for goodness sake , don't ever break a needle  because you'll have a such a hard time finding a replacement. Its only for display so I doubt it'll ever get used. But I will give him some info on the machine to go with his display. 

This may also be of interest: 

https://www.junker-home.com/de/en/discover-junker/history 

They are still operating , but I think the name  ' Ruh' seems to have dropped off. 

HS

[Mulesaw]

@Gunnarsson, Yes I guess that it'll take quite some time for the machine setup, it was just the sheer number of 10.000 needles that amazed me. When trying to google for the 1551 needle system, it seems as the only machines it was used for are those Junker & Ruh or the equivalent Pedersen sewing machine, and selling 9950 needles (I'd keep 50 myself) would most likely take some years.

 

[Mulesaw]

3 hours ago, Handstitched said:

My friend  ( that has the museum) dropped in yesterday, and I told him ' for goodness sake , don't ever break a needle  because you'll have a such a hard time finding a replacement. Its only for display so I doubt it'll ever get used. But I will give him some info on the machine to go with his display. 

This may also be of interest: 

https://www.junker-home.com/de/en/discover-junker/history 

They are still operating , but I think the name  ' Ruh' seems to have dropped off. 

HS

Here's a manual and a parts list for your friends display if he wants it. It is the English manual for a Pedersen SD28. I guess they bought the manufacturing rights and produced them in Denmark for some years. It should be an identical machine as far as I have been able to establish from the Net. 

I like it when old well established companies have a "history" part of their homepage. And very often the older products look the best (at least in my opinion).

SD 28 Junker & Ruh Outsole stitcher Parts list and manual.pdf

[chrisash]

3 hours ago, Mulesaw said:

@Gunnarsson, Yes I guess that it'll take quite some time for the machine setup, it was just the sheer number of 10.000 needles that amazed me. When trying to google for the 1551 needle system, it seems as the only machines it was used for are those Junker & Ruh or the equivalent Pedersen sewing machine, and selling 9950 needles (I'd keep 50 myself) would most likely take some years.

 

Don't forget you need different size needles as well, though probably only a 2 or 3 sizes

[Mulesaw]

40 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Don't forget you need different size needles as well, though probably only a 2 or 3 sizes

Ouch yes. I think I'll be happy if I can just get a spare needle in the first place :-) 
If not I'll try to be creative and see if it is possible to alter one of the available curved needles. Though it probably won't be easy.

[Constabulary]

The SD28 is a way cool (needle feed) machine but is also way outdated. I owned one it I loved it but it is not very... lets say user friendly when it comes to needles and spare parts. And it was not very versatile. It is mainly a sole stitcher so the number of needle sizes of course is (or was) limited to the rather larger sizes like NM 200 and bigger. So do not expect to find 1551 needles in size NM 160 or so. Maybe there were smaller sizes available but again, this machine is way outdated and rather used by hobbyists than by professional boot makers nowadays. The spare parts you find nowadays usually come from broke machines and no new parts are available AFAIK. Well maybe there are some NOS parts that are dug somewhere in the world - you never know but finding them and having them shipped to your door can be an expensive challenge.

Times have changed and the sewing machines as well.

However - I know there is or was a guy who reproduced needles for the SD28, I think he made them from other needles but I do not know the details... Let me see if I can find more information....

EDIT:

Register in this German sewing machine forum and contact the member HENRY LEDER. This is the short thread where he said he makes new needles for the SD28:

https://www.naehmaschinentechnik-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=7059

Edited November 4, 2023 by Constabulary

[Mulesaw]

@Constabulary I am looking more and more forward to getting my hands on the machine. :-) 

I will probably not use it very much, but I like old mechanical machines, and the price was so low (70 Euro) that I couldn't let it go. My friend who made the transaction said that the seller had 3 of them, so he bought one himself and we got a common one that we could use for spares. Mine was the only one that had a needle though. So getting more needles will help the both of us.

 Some more detail about the guy who reproduced needles would be fantastic. I have thought about getting some curved needles myself and then annealing them and bending them to the correct curve for the 1551 shape, and then use a small dremel to make the flat part on the shaft. Then I would have to harden the needle again without breaking it all. 
I have seen some pictures of the needles on the Net, and they seem to have a very distinct chisel like point. So it will probably take a few attempts to make one. 

I am hoping that I can use the machine for some repair operations on horse tack, some of the repairs I make can be a bit difficult on the Singer class 7, especially close to hardware. And the pictures of the sd28 looks like it could have an advantage in that respect.