Allergies in dogs and their going off food.

[Sheilajeanne]

Chuck, oh the breeder knew the male had problems! There is no doubt about it! 

It is not at all uncommon for AKC show breeders to continue to breed dogs with health and/or temperament problems, as long as they perform well in the show ring.

Beagles aren't my breed, but I could cite numerous examples that have been proven from multiple sources in German shepherds. 

Here's one of the worst. Linda Shaw wrote this. She also wrote the book on the Illustrated Standard of the German Shepherd Dog.

Quote

Another successful kennel was literally down the street; Hermsdorf. At the time their young Grand Victor Condor was mopping up at the shows. He was a very good looking dog,and seemed sound enough. I took his half-sister, on a co-ownership, by the famous American stud Cobert’s Sirocco of Windigail ROM. Brynn was a beauty who moved like silk, and she finished her championship with three five point majors, defeating a GV and several Selects. Unfortunately she was both dysplastic and mentally unstable. I finished her CD at the National a couple points short of HIT, and that year she was the recipient of the ‘Champion in Work and Breed’ award from the GSDCC. It was gratifying, but I realized how little that award meant. The day she finished her championship with five points at a large specialty show was something of a letdown. I loved her, but I knew she should never be used for breeding.

A year later, two year old Brynn bounced into the kitchen for her cookie, slumped to the floor and died. Her heart had stopped. Not long after, I discovered that her sire, Cobert’s Sirocco of Windigail, had sported a heart pacer so he could continue with his breeding career, and had just died prematurely because of it. His owner, Sprock, assured me it wasn’t hereditary. The pathologist rolled his eyes. Whatever faith I had that breeders, judges and breed clubs in North America were committed to breed improvement evaporated right then.

 

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Sheilajeanne said:

Chuck, oh the breeder knew the male had problems! There is no doubt about it! 

It is not at all uncommon for AKC show breeders to continue to breed dogs with health and/or temperament problems, as long as they perform well in the show ring.

Beagles aren't my breed, but I could cite numerous examples that have been proven from multiple sources in German shepherds. 

Here's one of the worst. Linda Shaw wrote this. She also wrote the book on the Illustrated Standard of the German Shepherd Dog.

 

 

 oh i agree there are bad breeders as well as bad people all over the world bent only on making money but that still doesn't make a half story true. But here is the reality dogs are animals with dna not machines, A breeder cannot see the future or how a particular animals is going to receive its dna or even if it will carry on the bad gene to its off spring.

Several breeds are so inbred that health problems are so prevalent in the breed they are automatically looked for, English bulldogs have an 87% chance of  hip dysplasia for example. Are all English bulldog breeders unscrupulous? Do all dog breeders just quit breeding those breeds or live with those folks ignorant of the fact that possible health problems are a natural occurrence of the breed and of the natural life cycle in general?

[Sheilajeanne]

Chuck, there's a very good reason the English bulldog is about the LAST breed of dog I'd ever want to own!  They also suffer from severe breathing problems due to the short snout, and can overheat and die very quickly in hot weather. Dogs like that should not be bred. 

Vets often comment on how dogs recovering from anesthesia will fight the tracheal tube when they begin to regain consciousness. The short snouted breeds often don't, because it's one of the very few times in their lives they've been able to breathe freely. 

It's a cruel thing breeders have done creating breeds like this. 

The owner of the beagle in question has had many beagles (she LOVES hounds) knows the breed inside and out, knows many other beagle breeders (it's not a very large community where she lives) and knows for sure the breeder was aware of the problem, but preferred getting stud fees and points in the show ring to breeding sound, healthy dogs. It's not a problem that shows up right away in the offspring, so it was easy for him to get away with it, and claim he had no idea the pups might have inherited it.

And don't get me started on the problems with the German shepherd. Here's what the breed standard (AKC) says about temperament: 

Quote

The breed has a distinct personality marked by direct and fearless, but not hostile, expression, self-confidence and a certain aloofness that does not lend itself to immediate and indiscriminate friendships. The dog must be approachable, quietly standing its ground and showing confidence and willingness to meet overtures without itself making them. It is poised, but when the occasion demands, eager and alert; both fit and willing to serve in its capacity as companion, watchdog, blind leader, herding dog, or guardian, whichever the circumstances may demand. The dog must not be timid, shrinking behind its master or handler; it should not be nervous, looking about or upward with anxious expression or showing nervous reactions, such as tucking of tail, to strange sounds or sights. Lack of confidence under any surroundings is not typical of good character. Any of the above deficiencies in character which indicate shyness must be penalized as very serious faults and any dog exhibiting pronounced indications of these must be excused from the ring.

And here's what Linda Shaw noticed: Over a period of a decade I watched almost every Grand Victor at the GSDCC National display obvious nervous instability. I lost count of the dogs that crouched, shied, cowered and trembled before judges who apparently didn’t care.

Some of the Canadian breeders who DID care fought very hard to introduce a temperament test for the breed. They eventually won out, but against CONSIDERABLE resistance. German shepherds in Canada now must pass the test in order to get a Select conformation rating. The American club (GSDCA) still does not require a test. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Sheilajeanne

[chuck123wapati]

9 minutes ago, Sheilajeanne said:

It's not a problem that shows up right away in the offspring, so it was easy for him to get away with it, and claim he had no idea the pups might have inherited it.

 

So English bulldogs should become extinct as well as many many other dog breeds?

Here's the problem with the one sided story, If it was in fact a disease the doesn't show up right away how could the breeder know the pup he sold had it? Fifth grade biology says that its impossible to know what dog in a litter will have a genetic problem or even if any will have the chromosome/s for any given disease. Your story also says the woman was well aware of the local breeders and the breed itself so if he was a bad breeder she would have known long before buying the pup. Maybe she just wanted the pup from the best dog in show to breed herself so took the chance. There is something you are not being told beware the one sided story especially when money was involved. People are greedy the woman wanted the best for her money and she took the chance bought a dog that came up with health problems and now blames the breeder for not knowing what he couldn't have known. Do you suppose you could get a breeder for any species of animal in the world to guarantee how long it will live? You also mentioned she fed her dog cookies how healthy is that? Would a breeder be liable for an owners bad habits?

 

 

[Sheilajeanne]

What? No, I never said she 'fed her dog cookies'. That was the Linda Shaw quote - her GERMAN SHEPHERD dropped dead at her feet due to an inherited heart arrhythmia!

Let's take this by the steps: this e-friend of mine bought a beagle pup. It developed severe, life-threatening allergies. Several years down the road, she found out that the sire also had severe allergies, and the owner was continuing to breed it, despite knowing about the problem. Like the man who owned the GSD with the pacemaker, the sire of the dog that dropped dead, no doubt he would deny the allergies could be inherited if confronted by someone with an offspring that had developed the same problem. This is NOT a rare thing in the dog  breeding world. I have seen it over and over again. I could tell you dozens of stories from the GSD world of the same sort of thing happening. Those stud fees look pretty good, and that's how breeders make their money - that and selling puppies. Of course, some of the pups would have been unaffected, and that would give them an excuse to keep on cranking out pups.

Dysplasia is also a problem with GSD's, but it has been dramatically reduced by the OFA x-ray program. Anyone buying a GSD these days will be checking the pup's pedigree to make sure their ancestor's hips (and more recently, elbows) passed the OFA screening program. 

And yes, maybe the bulldog SHOULD go extinct unless the breeders do something about fixing the problems it has! The function the dog once served (baiting bulls) is now illegal just about everywhere, so why keep a dog that's such a genetic disaster around? It's cruel what breeders have done - the females have pelvises so narrow they can't even give birth normally, and have to have C-sections! You think it's ethical to breed dogs like that?? 

 

[Klara]

16 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

And yes, maybe the bulldog SHOULD go extinct unless the breeders do something about fixing the problems it has! The function the dog once served (baiting bulls) is now illegal just about everywhere, so why keep a dog that's such a genetic disaster around? It's cruel what breeders have done - the females have pelvises so narrow they can't even give birth normally, and have to have C-sections! You think it's ethical to breed dogs like that?? 

I am sure that the bulldog has only become a disaster because its function has become illegal and it has been bred for beauty competitions. Where, strangely, many judges DO NOT really adhere to the breed standard (I am not familiar with bulldogs, but the GSD standard does not demand for the backside to drag on the ground, the French bulldog is supposed to have a nose and Irish Wolfhounds should be on average 85 cm high for the males! That's FCI standards...) and performance, or even the theoretical ability to perform, is not considered at all. The way I see it, all dogs should do some sort of performance test before breeding. No idea how to imitate bullbaiting (building something with a mechanical rodeo bull as base) but for GSDs there's IPO, for sighthounds racing and coursing, sheepdogs have their trials and lapdogs could do some character/education test (like good canine citizen, or how it's called. CSAU in France. )

The short-nosed breeds most likely will become extinct; in several European countries they either can no longer be shown, or are no longer allowed to be bred because it is considered cruel to create animals that are constantly in danger of asphyxiation. 

 

[Sheilajeanne]

Klara, long ago I discovered a link to a book that showed dog breeds in the very early 1900's. Many of the dogs looked very, very different from what their breed looks like now, and a surprising number of the breeds no longer exist. So, breeds do fall out of favor (or fashion) and become extinct.

I'd post the link, but it's on my old computer, and I don't have time to look it up. But here's how one breed has changed since then!

The St. Bernard has become so unsuited for the job it used to do (Alpine rescue) that alpine rescue units no longer use it. 

Edit: found a link to the book!! It was originally  published in 1867. An updated issue followed in 1915.  https://archive.org/details/dogsofallnations00masorich

Edited December 17, 2023 by Sheilajeanne

[Klara]

Yep, that's exactly my point. The labrador retriever used to be an elegant, athletic dog (like Marley in the movie), the ones that win in shows nowadays are barrels that "roll" through the ring. Even 40 years ago Bernese Mountain Dogs were much lighter, could still really move and race around and did not generally die of cancer at age 6 (!) The German Shepherd used to look more like today's Malinois (and I am sure that the Malinois was not as hysterical as many of today's are). Breeding for some exaggerated notion of "beauty" has killed functionality, and it's a disaster.

[Sheilajeanne]

Totally agree!  Today's German shepherds couldn't do this:

My current shepherd is working line, and they look more like the dogs of years gone by, and most can still work. Her father was a police canine: https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2224084-eska-von-den-roten-vorbergen?_v=20171103225743

 

[Klara]

12 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

...My current shepherd is working line,

Great picture! My borzoi is somewhere in the middle, some of her ancestors were racers, some not, and she is not really bred for racing. So her results (shows and  performance) are mixed, but she is a fully functional hound.

What makes me really, really happy is when a dog shown in "working class" (do you have them in AKC shows? It's for adult dogs who have had successes in work competitions, with details varying among breeds) also becomes best of his sex or BOB. With sighthounds that happens every now and then. Other judges mock the dogs in working class (they get on my personal black list)...