Allergies in dogs and their going off food.

[Sheilajeanne]

[sigh!]  Ohhh, Klara, have you ever opened a can of worms. As I think you are aware, the main sport for proving a GSD is worthy of breeding is Schutzhund. The AKC banned Schutzhund back in 1990. For a long time prior to that, GSDs shown in the American ring very rarely had any working titles of any sort, not even obedience. 

Same thing with Canada. One year, I attended the obedience trials at the Canadian Nationals (biggest show of the year for the GSD). None of the dogs competing were conformation dogs, and there were even quite a few dogs of other breeds. 

The problem is, if you don't prove your dogs have working ability, within a few generations you will lose that ability! Very few ASL German shepherds do anything other than trot around the ring looking pretty! 

In Canada, some breeders got together, and were determined to fix this. The founder of our breed, von Stephanitz said "Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim. The breeding of shepherd dogs is the breeding of working dogs; and this must always be the aim, or we shall cease to produce shepherd dogs. Efficiency for work must count for more with the shepherd dog breeder than the honors of the Show Ring."

So, this group of breeders finally got the kennel club to agree that before a Canadian GSD could go 'Select' in conformation, it must pass a temperament test and have at least one working title. There was CONSIDERABLE opposition to this from breeders who knew their dogs would never pass the temperament test, which involved things like walking along a road with traffic going past, gunshots being fired from a starter pistol, and an umbrella being opened in front of the dog.

The AKC club has never introduced similar rules. 

What about the German dogs? Well, in the early 70's a split began to form between the working GSDs and the show GSDs. The show dogs were bred to have lovely black and red coats, and like the ASL dogs, a far-reaching side gait. It was also decided that a curved back was stronger than a straight back, so backs became arched like a bridge. Due to breeding for a longer upper thigh the front end and the back were now out of balance, and as you can see from this photo, the trot was no longer a 2 beat gait. The courage test done at the Sieger show, the show of the year, was watered down. Dogs that came off the sleeve during the bitework still were getting ratings of 'pronounced'. 

There is currently pretty much a total split between the working and show lines. The show lines have their Sieger show, while the working lines have the BSP (Bundsieger Prufung) and the WUSV championship,  which only tests their working ability in the 3 Schutzhund disciplines (tracking, obedience and protection.) 

Here's what a typical working line (BSP winner!) looks like: https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=122775-ernst-vom-weinbergblick?_v=20121019223949

And here is a female German show line, who placed second in the 2017 Sieger show, which is what the VA2 rating means.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Sheilajeanne

[chuck123wapati]

neither one of you would have a dog of your choice if it wasn't for breeders.

[Handstitched]

A'h yes, showing dogs. Been there , done that. But having to get up at ' sparrows fart' on a Sunday to show my dog, a Rotty,  ( Rottweiler ) with all the endless  brushing, grooming,  healthy diets, exercising,    preps, assorted   snobs ( at the shows)  ,  dressing up, looking like a  total knob,  do all the  ' moves' in the ring and not get a damn thing at the end for all my efforts , not even a  f**king ribbon?? 

 F**k that!!! I'd rather stay in bed !!    So I did 

This has now gone from ' allergies in dogs' to showing dogs. 

HS

[chuck123wapati]

9 minutes ago, Handstitched said:

A'h yes, showing dogs. Been there , done that. But having to get up at ' sparrows fart' on a Sunday to show my dog, a Rotty,  ( Rottweiler ) with all the endless  brushing, grooming,  healthy diets, exercising,    preps, assorted   snobs ( at the shows)  ,  dressing up, looking like a  total knob,  do all the  ' moves' in the ring and not get a damn thing at the end for all my efforts , not even a  f**king ribbon?? 

 F**k that!!! I'd rather stay in bed !!    So I did 

This has now gone from ' allergies in dogs' to showing dogs. 

HS

lol my doggie sleeps with us I found dogs are much more fun if you love them for what they are, friends and companions.

[chuck123wapati]

22 hours ago, Klara said:

 are barrels that "roll" through the ring. 

Have you ever noticed their trainers? lol most cant keep up on  a good day. Showing dogs is pretty much just an ego trip imo, folks buying dogs, training them then taking credit when they win but when they lose its the breeders fault.

[Klara]

Yes, I am always surprised by videos from U.S. shows. In France the percentage of obese people is smaller in general, and even more noticeably in dog show rings. 

I dare say the attitude towards dog shows is different in FCI countries (of which I know France, Germany and Switzerland): Dog shows are not considered sport, but events for evaluating the dog. Which is why every owner gets a slip with the judge's opinion of the dog and a mark, from excellent to satisfactory (?). And in some cases even owners not interested in dog shows must do them: In Germany for a dog to be allowed to breed within the club, in France to get his official adult pedigree (which also is permission to breed). In FCI countries sighthounds need two "very good" to be allowed starts in international lure coursing events.

Rika has all the show results she needs,  now I am just doing a bit of tourism to places that interest me (hopefully there will be a show in Carcassonne next year). If we take home a ribbon, that's a nice plus

Btw, Rika also sleeps with me.

 

[Sheilajeanne]

16 minutes ago, Klara said:

Yes, I am always surprised by videos from U.S. shows. In France the percentage of obese people is smaller in general, and even more noticeably in dog show rings. 

What NOT to wear to a dog show:  

As for working titles, I was definitely planning to put at least and IGP1 on Eska, but age and health got in the way...   Anyway, she got her BH, the basic Schutzhund obedience title 5 days after being hit by a car, when she dashed out into the street, instead of waiting for me to open the car door...  

Ah well, she's a great companion, and watching her and the cat have their morning sparring match is very entertaining!

Chuck, what breed are the dogs in your photo?

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Sheilajeanne

[Sheilajeanne]

4 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

neither one of you would have a dog of your choice if it wasn't for breeders.

Chuck, the problem with that is there's this thing called the 'breed standard' that the breeders are supposed to follow, and if they don't follow it, the breed can get messed up pretty fast: The dog must not be timid, shrinking behind its master or handler; it should not be nervous, looking about or upward with anxious expression or showing nervous reactions, such as tucking of tail, to strange sounds or sights. Lack of confidence under any surroundings is not typical of good character. Any of the above deficiencies in character which indicate shyness must be penalized as very serious faults and any dog exhibiting pronounced indications of these must be excused from the ring 

At one American German shepherd show a few years ago, breeders asked the people running the show to stop making announcements over the P.A. system, as it was causing their dogs to spook.   

Did you know the border collie people fought very hard AGAINST being recognized by the AKC, as their breed is above all else a WORKING breed? Other collie herding breeds (rough collie Shetland sheepdog) have been destroyed by the conformation show ring, and are no longer capable of working.   The rough collie now carries so much coat that if it tried to herd in an area with lots of scrub, it would get caught up in the bushes, and likely get stuck!  

Edited December 18, 2023 by Sheilajeanne

[chuck123wapati]

6 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

Chuck, the problem with that is there's this thing called the 'breed standard' that the breeders are supposed to follow, and if they don't follow it, the breed can get messed up pretty fast: The dog must not be timid, shrinking behind its master or handler; it should not be nervous, looking about or upward with anxious expression or showing nervous reactions, such as tucking of tail, to strange sounds or sights. Lack of confidence under any surroundings is not typical of good character. Any of the above deficiencies in character which indicate shyness must be penalized as very serious faults and any dog exhibiting pronounced indications of these must be excused from the ring 

At one American German shepherd show a few years ago, breeders asked the people running the show to stop making announcements over the P.A. system, as it was causing their dogs to spook.   

Did you know the border collie people fought very hard AGAINST being recognized by the AKC, as their breed is above all else a WORKING breed? Other collie herding breeds (rough collie Shetland sheepdog) have been destroyed by the conformation show ring, and are no longer capable of working.   The rough collie now carries so much coat that if it tried to herd in an area with lots of scrub, it would get caught up in the bushes, and likely get stuck!  

neither one of you would have a dog of your choice if it wasn't for breeders.  you seem to love to complain.

The pups are American bullies and a Beagle mix we rescued form the kennel

[Sheilajeanne]

Things need to change, Chuck. If no one complains, nothing will get done.

They are ruining the breed I love.

 

(I guessed those were American bullies. I've seen quite a few - people do schutzhund with them.)