Gunbelt for fluctuating waist...

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

Howdy!

I'm making an Old West style holster and gunbelt for a friend. He has a Cimarron .357 magnum SAA with a 5.5" barrel.

He is undergoing cancer treatment and has lost weight, so I am wondering how to go about this.

Here's what I think:

• He will gain back some weight, so his current waist size is not what to go with.
• Not sure how much more weight he will gain, so maybe go for his previous waist size.
• The wife has been a little uncooperative regarding telling my a size. Not on purpose, she just doesn't get what I am saying it seems, and thinks we should wait, but I heard him on the phone say he doen't want to wait. Plus, it will give him something to be happy about.

So here are my questions:

• If I use a belt that he's used before, would this be good-maybe adding a couple of inches?
• Anyone ever make a belt that can be adjusted? I know there are the extenders, but I mean in the back maybe. Been thinking of a three piece belt: the two regular sides for the buckle with a center piece on the back that holds the bullet loops and attaches via lacing or something.

Other than that, trying to decide on a money belt or regular. Based on the need for adjustment, I think the regular type belt will be better.

Maybe a sort of cartridge belt type with the buckle and the part that go into the buckle (like a narrower belt) so then I can just replace the part that goes through the buckle with a longer one later.

[fredk]

I would make a three-piece belt, with billets at each end that can be replaced.  eg;  a wide belt with bullet loops and then narrow billets sewn on which can be replaced, in this manner

 

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

I would make a three-piece belt, with billets at each end that can be replaced.  eg;  a wide belt with bullet loops and then narrow billets sewn on which can be replaced, in this manner

 

Thanks! That's what I was thinking in my last sentence above-just had a mental block of the terminology. Thanks for the clarification and the idea. It may be the best bet.

[Dwight]

First thing is . . . have you ever made a western gun belt before??

If not . . . you WILL need a good pattern.  Without it . . . .the belt will not fit right . . . period.

But with that said . . . you need to measure a belt he is wearing now . . . find the most used hole . . . and add 4 inches to it.  That is the measurement you will use to make his gun belt  for his present size.

That measurement . . . including the 4 inches . . . will be from the leather side of the buckle . . . to the center hole of the tongue..  

Most makers give the buyer 5 holes . . . allowing for 2 inch gain or 2 inch loss.  I put 7 holes . . . giving a 3 inch leeway . . . either way.

Since you are anticipating his gaining back some . . . you might plan for his losing 1 or gaining 5 . . . which is probably where I'd be tempted to go.  That means you make the belt 6 inches longer than the measurement you get from his present belt.

Worst case scenario . . . you may have to cut it in the back and add a couple inches.

To plan for that . . . leave a 2 inch gap in the middle of the back . . . put 12 bullet holders on each side . . . and if necessary . . . you can add a middle piece.

That's the way I'd do it.

May God bless,

Dwight

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

2 minutes ago, Dwight said:

First thing is . . . have you ever made a western gun belt before??

If not . . . you WILL need a good pattern.  Without it . . . .the belt will not fit right . . . period.

But with that said . . . you need to measure a belt he is wearing now . . . find the most used hole . . . and add 4 inches to it.  That is the measurement you will use to make his gun belt  for his present size.

That measurement . . . including the 4 inches . . . will be from the leather side of the buckle . . . to the center hole of the tongue..  

Most makers give the buyer 5 holes . . . allowing for 2 inch gain or 2 inch loss.  I put 7 holes . . . giving a 3 inch leeway . . . either way.

Since you are anticipating his gaining back some . . . you might plan for his losing 1 or gaining 5 . . . which is probably where I'd be tempted to go.  That means you make the belt 6 inches longer than the measurement you get from his present belt.

Worst case scenario . . . you may have to cut it in the back and add a couple inches.

To plan for that . . . leave a 2 inch gap in the middle of the back . . . put 12 bullet holders on each side . . . and if necessary . . . you can add a middle piece.

That's the way I'd do it.

May God bless,

Dwight

Have made several western holsters but this will be my first gunbelt. I have a couple of patterns and they are simply a strip of leather 2.5" wide and whatever measurement the wearer needs. Of course there are the billets.

Thanks for that information; I will put it to use!

[Dwight]

1 minute ago, ZARDOZ the GREAT said:

Have made several western holsters but this will be my first gunbelt. I have a couple of patterns and they are simply a strip of leather 2.5" wide and whatever measurement the wearer needs. Of course there are the billets.

Thanks for that information; I will put it to use!

If you make it like a regular belt . .  .examples were best seen on the old Bonanza  show . . . straight cut belts . . . that worked fine for Pa and the boys when they stood up from their stage chairs and went off to do a scene.  Put on the belt . . . do the scene . . . .take it off.  If they wore it for any length of time in the day . . . it needed suspenders to keep it up . . . it fell off . . . or was cinched so tight it was not funny.

A true western gun belt has to be cut on a slight curve in order for it to fit correctly . . . ride correctly . . . and not be uncomfortable.  Cutting a straight wide belt will make your customer go find someone else when he wants the next one.  Yours will wind up in an empty drawer . . . shoved towards the back.

May God bless,

Dwight

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

5 minutes ago, Dwight said:

If you make it like a regular belt . .  .examples were best seen on the old Bonanza  show . . . straight cut belts . . . that worked fine for Pa and the boys when they stood up from their stage chairs and went off to do a scene.  Put on the belt . . . do the scene . . . .take it off.  If they wore it for any length of time in the day . . . it needed suspenders to keep it up . . . it fell off . . . or was cinched so tight it was not funny.

A true western gun belt has to be cut on a slight curve in order for it to fit correctly . . . ride correctly . . . and not be uncomfortable.  Cutting a straight wide belt will make your customer go find someone else when he wants the next one.  Yours will wind up in an empty drawer . . . shoved towards the back.

May God bless,

Dwight

Interesting. Where can I find such a pattern? The ones I have don't show a curve.

[Dwight]

13 minutes ago, ZARDOZ the GREAT said:

Interesting. Where can I find such a pattern? The ones I have don't show a curve.

Get me a couple of things . . . the size of his belt he is wearing now . . . and your mailing address.

I'll conjure up something for you . . . 

This is one I did a number of years ago . . . it shows you a piece of the curve . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

2 hours ago, Dwight said:

Get me a couple of things . . . the size of his belt he is wearing now . . . and your mailing address.

I'll conjure up something for you . . . 

This is one I did a number of years ago . . . it shows you a piece of the curve . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

That's great! Thank you!

Let me ask again and I will let you know asap.

Thank you!

[chuck123wapati]

12 hours ago, ZARDOZ the GREAT said:

That's great! Thank you!

Let me ask again and I will let you know asap.

Thank you!

if you can get his old belt it probably has his natural curve already wore in to it. 

[chuck123wapati]

plus I would make it to fit him as he is now. He may lose weight or he may gain weight but he will be happy with the fit now and if you do have to enlarge a ranger belt it isn't hard to do down the road as Fred said just change the billet.

[Dwight]

46 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

plus I would make it to fit him as he is now. He may lose weight or he may gain weight but he will be happy with the fit now and if you do have to enlarge a ranger belt it isn't hard to do down the road as Fred said just change the billet.

That only works if you make the nose the projected "extra" you might need.  

Otherwise . . . the nose doesn't slip into the loop and overlap . . . and you wind up with one of the most uncomfortable wrecks of a belt imaginable . . . 

And if you make the nose big enough for a projected 8 or 10 inches . . . that is almost as uncomfortable as the other way.

Really it's a quandary any way you go . . . just have to guess right on what his weight will do 

May God bless,

Dwight

[chuck123wapati]

8 minutes ago, Dwight said:

That only works if you make the nose the projected "extra" you might need.  

Otherwise . . . the nose doesn't slip into the loop and overlap . . . and you wind up with one of the most uncomfortable wrecks of a belt imaginable . . . 

And if you make the nose big enough for a projected 8 or 10 inches . . . that is almost as uncomfortable as the other way.

Really it's a quandary any way you go . . . just have to guess right on what his weight will do 

May God bless,

Dwight

your right as usual, my opine is if he wants it now then he wants it to fit now. 8 or 10" inch difference means a completely new belt of any type especially with bullet loops added. I didn't read that large a difference into the mix.

[chuck123wapati]

But maybe a guy could make each end of the belt replaceable. Such as I have done to this buckle end to add inches to this belt. that would allow any bullet loops or designs to stay centered on the belt as it gets enlarged or shortened.

[dikman]

The problem with a Ranger-style belt, as has been mentioned, is the overlap adjustment if it has to be enlarged too much (billets lengthened). I have two that were given to me where this has been done and not only does it look dumb/funny/stupid it has effectively ruined the belt.

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

10 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

if you can get his old belt it probably has his natural curve already wore in to it. 

Yeah, thanks. I just asked for one of his old belts and a current one. Maybe I can make it to fit both. Let's see.

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

I've though of something maybe like this:

I

 

If I add to it later, I would disguise it with a design or something.

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

Howdy. I'm about ready to make the belt.

 

For the curve, is there a formula for how much curve based on belt length?

 

I see western gun belts that are lined on the inside. I am thinking that a money belt would eliminate some of that stitching of extra material on the inside and have just one seam.

Does the money belt also need a curve? Can;t see how that would work.

Please advise.

 

Thank you!

[Dwight]

2 hours ago, ZARDOZ the GREAT said:

Howdy. I'm about ready to make the belt.

 

For the curve, is there a formula for how much curve based on belt length?

 

I see western gun belts that are lined on the inside. I am thinking that a money belt would eliminate some of that stitching of extra material on the inside and have just one seam.

Does the money belt also need a curve? Can;t see how that would work.

Please advise.

 

Thank you!

I learned to make gunbelts and holsters from John Bianchi . . . a premier leather worker.

I watched his lessons on making western drop down gun rigs . . . and while he told you how to do it . . . he did not supply any pattern ideas.  I guess he figured if you were hoss enough to jump into it . .  .you'ld figure it out.

I had to do a bunch of "print screen" shots . . . then print them . . . and measure them and scale them . . . to figure out how to do a bunch of things . . . the belt curve was one.  

I made a pattern as you can see in the pictures . . . that will open up for bigger or smaller patrons.  Look at the edge of the big picture . . . and you'll see the numbers that correspond to the size belt I'm making at the time.  For your example . . . I picked a 42 inch belt . . . which is the gun belt size for a person whose normal belt size is 38.  

In the close up . . . you can see that there is a 4 1/2 inch difference on the curve.  I  have used this pattern for 20 some odd years now . . . never had anyone complain about it . . . 

And yes . . . you can save yourself some stitching by making money belts . . . and I've made a few . . . and the sorry things would never stay up like I really wanted them to . . . unless I put them on like a girdle trying to hide 50 lbs of pig fat.  They are not one of my favorite items to make.

You also have to glue the moneybelt layers together just like a regular gun belt . . . or otherwise it will roll and flop up and down if you are in a truck or car seat.  Making a full open money belt might be "authentic" of a few folks from back then . . . but certainly not many.

AND . . . I don't make gun belts that are anything but lined.  I started that way . . . plan on continuing.

May God bless,

Dwight

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

17 hours ago, Dwight said:

 . . . I don't make gun belts that are anything but lined.  I started that way . . . plan on continuing.

May God bless,

Dwight

Thank you for that information and the pictures! Helps a lot!

 

Can you tell me what leather weight you prefer for the belt and the lining? I think I have 8 ounce and also 2 or 3 ounce. Seems like a money belt also saves in material.

I understand you don;t like them, but do you know if money belts also need to be curved?

Regards,

Me

 

 

Edited January 31, 2024 by ZARDOZ the GREAT

[Dwight]

2 hours ago, ZARDOZ the GREAT said:

Can you tell me what leather weight you prefer for the belt and the lining? I think I have 8 ounce and also 2 or 3 ounce. Seems like a money belt also saves in material.

I understand you don;t like them, but do you know if money belts also need to be curved?

Regards,

Me

My gun belts are all of 7/8 oz leather . . . exactly 8 oz is 1/8 of an inch . . . so a double layer is 1/4 inch if both pieces were a full 8 oz.  Usually the leather I get tends to be a bit shy . . . so my total thickness usually runs in the .200 inches or thereabouts.  I generally cut both pieces from the same hide . . . if there are any small blemishes . . . they go to the inside.

And yes . . . if the money belt were curved . . . it would fit better.  The last couple I made were of 5/6 oz and I did them rough out . . . so they would cling a bit better to the wearer.  Again I did not get any complaints . . .  but I'm sure I know what happened . . . they cinched them up good and tight to start with . . . and the body heat and perspiration tended to re-mold them . . . similar to that which occurs with regular work belts.  

I've played a bit with using two different thicknesses . . . and never really liked the feel or the look . . . just one of those things on me.  The big aggravation is that using a thinner lining . . . it will tend to bubble and buckle . . . looking wrinkled . . . I try to stay away from that look.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

1 minute ago, Dwight said:

My gun belts are all of 7/8 oz leather . . . exactly 8 oz is 1/8 of an inch . . . so a double layer is 1/4 inch if both pieces were a full 8 oz.  Usually the leather I get tends to be a bit shy . . . so my total thickness usually runs in the .200 inches or thereabouts.  I generally cut both pieces from the same hide . . . if there are any small blemishes . . . they go to the inside.

And yes . . . if the money belt were curved . . . it would fit better.  The last couple I made were of 5/6 oz and I did them rough out . . . so they would cling a bit better to the wearer.  Again I did not get any complaints . . .  but I'm sure I know what happened . . . they cinched them up good and tight to start with . . . and the body heat and perspiration tended to re-mold them . . . similar to that which occurs with regular work belts.  

I've played a bit with using two different thicknesses . . . and never really liked the feel or the look . . . just one of those things on me.  The big aggravation is that using a thinner lining . . . it will tend to bubble and buckle . . . looking wrinkled . . . I try to stay away from that look.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

Interesting.

Thanks!

I have a bullet belt that has no liner. I like that the inside is kind of rough because it seems to help in staying put.

I'll have to see which way I go in that regard.

Thank you!

 

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

Just to be sure: please correct me if I am wrong or missing anything...

When cutting/sizing the gun belt, what I understand is to add four inches to the regular belt/waist measurement, so a size 40 would be a 44. Is this correct?

This measurement, from what I understand, is from the belt buckle, where the prong touches the frame of the buckle? Or is it from the center bar of the buckle? to the center hole of the belt billet?

I figure there should be some overlap of the belt body. Please advise.

As of now I cut a 3"x59" belt blank. Waiting to hear back so I can cut correctly. Thank you.

PS.

I am wondering if I should take off a 1/2" to make it a 2.5" instead of a 3". Concern is that the belt and holster already have a little play, and  the holster may travel with the gun for an inch or so as it is drawn. Obviously, removing a half inch from the belt width will aggravate that. Although I imagine the friction against the body will likely prevent that.

The belts in these photos seem to have a curve, and they also look "soft", flexible, especially the one on the right. I though it was a money belt but when zoomed in, as it goes through the holster, it looks like a regular thick leather belt.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2024 by ZARDOZ the GREAT

[Dwight]

Unless requested by the buyer . . . I only make 2 1/2 belts.

Adding 4 inches is the "standard" . . . and it don't make any difference where or how you measure it . . . so long as the regular belt the buyer wears and the gun belt are measured the same way.  Measure the buyer's belt to the "most used" hole . . . it'll be the one that is wallered out.

But as a practice . . . I always measure from the edge of the buckle . . . 

That does not appear to be a money belt . . . but most of the reason it curves is his pizza belly and the weight of the cartridges.  They are some kind of heavy when you put a bunch on a belt like he has.

The holster can be stopped from pulling up with a thigh strap . . . or sometimes folks will sew in an extra piece of leather that goes up and pushes against the belt so the holster can't pull up.

May God bless,

Dwight

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

10 hours ago, Dwight said:

Unless requested by the buyer . . . I only make 2 1/2 belts.

Adding 4 inches is the "standard" . . . and it don't make any difference where or how you measure it . . . so long as the regular belt the buyer wears and the gun belt are measured the same way.  Measure the buyer's belt to the "most used" hole . . . it'll be the one that is wallered out.

But as a practice . . . I always measure from the edge of the buckle . . . 

That does not appear to be a money belt . . . but most of the reason it curves is his pizza belly and the weight of the cartridges.  They are some kind of heavy when you put a bunch on a belt like he has.

The holster can be stopped from pulling up with a thigh strap . . . or sometimes folks will sew in an extra piece of leather that goes up and pushes against the belt so the holster can't pull up.

May God bless,

Dwight

Very good.

Makes sense!

Thank you!

Deus vult!