DIY leather conditioner

[SUP]

@ScottWolf I'm sure your leather conditioner is perfectly fine and works well. But that does not mean other ingredients or other recipes don't. They do. 

[deboardp]

2 hours ago, SUP said:

@Wepster, @deboardp citrus oil - solvent - I suspect they mean Limonene. D-limonene smells of oranges which is pleasant; L-Limonene has a piney-turpentine smell, which is not. D-Limonene as a solvent is great as an addition to leather conditioners - it is an anti-fungal as well. Not sure of the percentage needed though.

If you buy plain Limonene, you get the unseparated mix, which smells of pine and turpentine. So if you want the citrus fragrance, you need to buy the D-Limonene. Often though, it is not sufficiently separated and still has some turpentine smell. 

 @deboardp if vegans don't like what you use, it is their loss, isn't it? How much can you really change your conditioner recipes to suit people's idiosyncrasies?

The change might result in a product that is not as effective and that will be another issue.

A question: Is there a need for tallow as well as lanolin in a conditioner? Is one of these not sufficient, along with beeswax for a bit of stiffness and an oil of choice for penetration into the leather and texture of the conditioner? Just wondering.

@deboardp After the earlier comments on applying conditioners to damp leather, I tried it on some dry leather that I have. I dampened the leather with a spray bottle and then rubbed in the conditioner. It slowly turned white. I left it overnight and the next day, the leather was soft and pliable and shiny - whiteness gone. Delighted with the result but I don't think I will repeat - too much elbow grease needed. But the method works. 

About hot-stuffing, From what I have read, oil tanned leather is specifically chrome tanned leather that is hot stuffed. That does not mean veg tanned leather is not or cannot be hot stuffed - just not given a specific name. Latigo is hot-stuffed and chrome and veg tanned! There are others too and since the process makes the leather more pliable, I guess if we look at the processes of making the more pliable veg-tanned leather, they might include hot stuffing  as well.

 

You ask some good questions. The monks are all vegetarians, and they are half my target demographic. The other half is lay people, who are probably a mix of vegetarian, vegan, and meat eater. However, I have a blessing to use whatever works best in the conditioner. Thus I am not concerned, not in the least, to losing a potential customer because of tallow in the recipe. I mean, good grief, they're okay with the animal's skin being on their feet, but not it's fat? What would be the reasoning there?? Actually, I don't care to know the reasoning, because it is most likely pulled out of that dark cavity. Or totally made up, designed to elicit some kind of sympathy or support or shared whining. Sheesh. Let them live with the consequences of their decisions. They will survive not having a pair of world class (I hope) leather sandals on their feet. 

As for the hot stuffing, yes that's done, as far as I know to create Latigo, chrome and other finished leathers, but it compromises the workability of veg tanned leather. Beveling the edges is not cleanly done, if my memory serves me, and a leather saturated with fats and waxes and oil will not glue well, I think. That's why my warm wet stuffing procedure will be done after the sandal is constructed. It will be done last. Burnishing of edges will be complete, stitching complete, then dyeing if requested, then warm wet stuffing.   

I think that the hot stuffed leathers like chrome tanned and Latigo also resist creasing and other tooling. I want to crease my strap edges and try doing a bead, too. That's done before conditioning and after wetting the leather with water. It's done after burnishing the strap edges and before gluing the dead end of the strap to the flesh side of the topsole. 

Good question about using just one fat. I read that lanolin is not technically a fat. It's missing something in its chemical structure, but it coats and protects wool from the elements, and helps collagen fibers in leather also. 

Funny I still haven't decided about using tallow. I did order two 8 oz jars of Colorado Leather Balm that @ScottWolf recommended, and I might use it on my first pair, the one for my feet, to see how it does. It's pricey, but if it works, who cares??? 4 ounces is only $20. The two big jars is $60 for the two of them. 

I am inclined to using only pleasant smelling things, which eliminates tallow and lard. The Abbott of the monastery gifted me a brick of wax when the candle shop asked him how much to charge me, and it smells great! The lanolin smells great. I think a drop or five of D-limonene might round out a terrific recipe. Especially since it's a fungicide. Do you have a link to a seller?

Edited January 11, 2024 by deboardp

[Wepster]

@SUPthe citrus oil solvents I mention do not countain turpentine, ie this one from milk paint

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/shop/solvents/citrus-solvent/

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1105/limone

@deboardpgoogle limonene, Amazon to Walmart and many others.

Edited January 11, 2024 by Wepster

[deboardp]

11 minutes ago, Wepster said:

@SUPthe citrus oil solvents I mention do not countain turpentine, ie this one from milk paint

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/shop/solvents/citrus-solvent/

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1105/limone

@deboardpgoogle limonene, Amazon to Walmart and many others.

I just realized that it is a solvent, which will evaporate and leave the conditioner. I would rather have an oil. Orange oil? I wonder if there is such a thing. 

Edited January 11, 2024 by deboardp
My phone hates me

[SUP]

@Wepster Thank you! I have been looking for a citrus oil which smells only of oranges. I get mine as food-grade since I use it as a household cleaner as well and want it safe for my pets. But in spite of getting it from different sellers, it always has a slight smell of L-Limonene - piney-turpentiney, as described in the MSDS.  I will try this seller. 

Limonene does not contain turpentine either. It is pure orange oil and the part with the orange fragrance is D - Limonene.  Many companies sell it separated from L-Limonene but I suspect the separation is not always perfect. 

@deboardp, I go on Amazon to get food grade D-Limonene. As I mentioned, sometimes it has a slight turpentine smell but the orange fragrance is present. i plan to try the one @Wepster suggested next. It is technical grade, so not for a household cleaner for me, but certainly for my leathers. 

About oil-tanned leathers, they are easy to line. I use them a lot and am happy with the results. Just made a host of keychains for gifts, many with layered oil-tanned leathers and they do glue well. There is no oil on the surfaces to prevent that.

 

Edited January 11, 2024 by SUP

[SUP]

@deboardp orange oil is the solvent. Orange oil is the layman's name for it.

[Wepster]

in the wood finish its wax, raw linseed oil and a bit of the orange oil solvent, the oil part is the linseed oil. Don't know about linseed oil and leather, but perhaps sub NFO or jojoba or what you like and the orange oil... (for a VOC free solvent).

WARNING  some oils mentioned may cause fires as they produce heat while drying. Linseed oil will, rags used to apply or wipe off should be laid flat to dry, bunched up rags could catch fire. Do not know about some other oils that are drying oils (Stand oil is very refined linseed oil, it gives off heat also). Just something to be aware of.

This stuff is to be used on bare wood or something like milk paint. It is ment to be absorbed into the wood. Interesting how there are some overlaps in treating/careing/finishing leather and wood.

Some info on the milk paint co citrus oil,,,,https://www.casketbuildersupply.com/pages/about-orange-oil-solvent#:~:text=A Natural%2C Non-Toxic%2C,a concentrated cleaner and degreaser.

I am done.

Edited January 11, 2024 by Wepster

[ScottWolf]

7 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

In what book anywhere have you ever read that ash, lye and urine are used or ever were used as a conditioner?  Is it in the one you wouldn't post because I prolly wouldn't read it anyway? Still waiting I wont let you down. BTW they are still relevant and still used in processing leather lol as well as many products people use daily. Just made some soap used 100% pure lye just like the big companies do.

How familiar are you with the old recipes of the making of leather that are out there(rhetorical)? I’ll admit, I may not have been clear enough in my last statement for the connection to be obvious. The ingredients I mentioned have been used in the past in the manufacture/tanning process of making leather, not just conditioner; my response was not limited to just making conditioner, but to the bigger idea of the cognitive dissonance that conflicting information causes when discussing anything to do with leather.  Again, I assumed you’d be able to make that connection, me culpa.

 

7 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

My point is and has been you want to make folks think that leather conditioning is some new found science, because its probably a marketing ploy for you.  All conditioners are a mixture of fats oils and waxs and have been for centuries. As well all the "alternative oils" you reference were also used back then and as easily accessible as they are today. Olive oil, coconut butter and bee poop, or whatever buzz word  concoction, conditioner isn't new my friend,  the folks that buy it from you may think so but most folks here know better. 

I wish you well with that most of the newer leather folks provide a small tin of super secret, eco friendly, sustainable, special stuff to rub on their leather work. It gives younger folks that warm fuzzy feeling and makes them part of the process.

I have no idea how you came to this conclusion, but you are wrong. I’ve never claimed that making leather conditioner was “new found science” or that it’s my  “marketing ploy”. I sell absolutely ZERO leather conditioning products.  In fact, my DIY leather conditioner thread is all about being able to make your own and I spell out how to go about it and list a lot of the other ingredients that can be used with and or in lieu of other ingredients, like Olive and coconut oil, etc. One ingredient I mentioned in that thread that is newer, is the use of D-Limonene. The only thing I have said I don’t recommend in this thread, based on my experiences, was the use of Vegetable oil and lard (pork), both of which have been referenced in other recipes(YMMV). So what ever you were drinking/smoking to arrive at the idea that I am trying to sell a product or that I have some kind of new age, Kumbaya, tree hugging agenda is flat out wrong friend.

[ScottWolf]

7 hours ago, SUP said:

@ScottWolf I'm sure your leather conditioner is perfectly fine and works well. But that does not mean other ingredients or other recipes don't. They do. 

The only ingredients I said I didnt recommend in this thread, based on my experience with them, is Vegetable oil and lard (pork). All the others ingredients mentioned I don't and haven't had any issues with. Each combination of ingredients has its Pros and cons when it comes to performance and what the user wants to achieve with it.

[dikman]

9 hours ago, SUP said:

A question: Is there a need for tallow as well as lanolin in a conditioner? Is one of these not sufficient, along with beeswax for a bit of stiffness and an oil of choice for penetration into the leather and texture of the conditioner? Just wondering.

 

The tallow has a lower melting point than beeswax so mixing it in should help to soften the wax. As to whether it's needed I guess that's up to the person making the conditioner. Making tallow itself is another separate process, of course, which is probably why you won't find it in commercial conditioners, they're all about making a product that will work but is as cheap to make as possible. Looking at the MSDS for them generally shows beeswax, mineral oil and a few other man-made products in very small percentages. Olive oil mixed with beeswax makes a great soft paste, I made some years ago and it hasn't gone off yet.