DIY leather conditioner

[ScottWolf]

8 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

 I'll demonstrate a misconception you made, here is a short list of old guys from 1892 who wrote books. https://www.thefamouspeople.com/19th-century-scientists.php They had everything in 1892 you have now to make leather conditioner except maybe a few synthetic oils of which I see none mentioned in this thread. Obviously people of that era also had the intellect and scientific knowledge to make it. 

 

HAHA! I want to thank you for not only making my day, but for proving my point and being predictable in response to the saying about the internet I posted.

You assumed I meant all recipes for leather care from 1892, I never said that.The more I interact with you, the more I am understanding that I cannot assume that you are  able to make the logical connections in my statements. That is OK, it is the internet after all and nuance is lost.

So in an attempt to clarify my previous statement that you have taken umbrage with, I will clarify. Yes, there are indeed some recipes from way back when that are still good in this day and age. However there are also others that are not and what I was referring to. Such as those that list ingredients like Lye, Ash, Urine, etc that are clearly no longer relevant. The whole point of the statement is that some people will cling to this dogma and not use critical thinking and question whether or not it's still good information and or get upset when it is questioned by others or when presented with an alternative. It is this cognitive inflexibility that was being addressed.   Hopefully my explanation has clarified this.

[deboardp]

1 hour ago, ScottWolf said:

Again, see my recipe post on how to make leather conditioner, it has ratios of each product and how to modify it if you want a more solid product, a balm or a cream. As for the "stuffing" you mentioned, I am assuming you are referring to hot stuffing,? This is done at the tannery during the tanning process, you are wanting to make a leather conditioner to be applied to finished leather if I understand you correctly. Hot Stuffing is defined by Horween as:

Hot Stuffed: Hot stuffing is the traditional second step in the re-tanning process for leathers that are not fat liquored or wet stuffed. Unrefined fats and oils, that are solid at room temperature, are utilized to deeply nourish and condition the fibers of the hide.  The fats and oils are pounded into the skins via tumbling in heated barrels, without the use of water and emulsifiers. The use of these fats and oils gives the leather a much richer feel. Hot stuffed leathers typically exhibit pull-up, good water resistance and excellent durability over time." Here is the link because someone will undoubtedly want to refute this https://www.horween.com/glossary

You are on the right track with using beeswax, Lanolin and Tallow(beef). I make that exact recipe using the tallow from South Chicago packing and it works great for conditioning a piece of leather. You can also get this same product from Colorado leather balm if you want to try it out before you make it yourself. You can find it on Amazon. I think this is a good trifecta of ingredients to condition leather to be used to make sandals.

 

No, I don't want to make a conditioner to apply on finished leather. I'm making a conditioner for vegetable tanned leather, which is basically collagen fibers without anything else in there with the fibers.  It's an unfinished, dry leather without oils, waxes or fats in it.  I want to hand-stuff my conditioner into the leather, after wetting it with warm water, pressing and massaging it into all surfaces of the leather, flesh side, edges, grain side, so that it penetrates deeply, all the way in, until it seems to be saturated with it. Then I will let it dry for 3 days or so and rub off whatever is on the surface, using a clean microfiber cloth, or perhaps a cotton dishtowel.Then I'll use a bit of cod liver oil on a clean dry cloth and rub the leather with it. This process will lubricate the collagen fibers of the leather so that the leather will become flexible, pliable, softer, and it will also be darker. It helps the sandal straps and topsole conform to the feet, and it will decrease the amount of rubbing of straps into feet that cause blisters. One of my goals of making this conditioner is to make the straps conform to the feet rather than cut into them. Another is to preserve the leather for decades. (I had a pair for 20 years before losing them. The top soles and straps had some cracks after 20 years, and I do not recall having a conditioner like what I am about to make.

I know how hot stuffing in the tannery works. Vegetable tanned leather isn't hot stuffed, but chrome leather is. There are probably other kinds of leather that are hot stuffed.  I work only with vegetable tanned leather, which takes a long time to tan and is expensive because of that. (I'm not interested in using other kinds of leather at this time.) But it is great for tooling, for all kinds of products: saddles, shoes, boots, sandals, bags, and more.

I mostly made sandals 50 years ago, hundreds of pairs. I made a couple bags, a couple belts, a pair of pants with 1/4" strips of leather for stitching, and that leather was - well, I have forgotten the term - but it's very soft, the kind used with prosthetics. The pants were unlined - big mistake! - and only lasted one year. But they were gorgeous for half that time. So I work just with vegetable tanned leather.

What kind of leather products do you make? I see that you joined leatherworkers.net in 2020, stating that your specialty is baseball. Do you make gloves? How long have you been doing what you do? 

Edited January 11 by deboardp

[ScottWolf]

26 minutes ago, deboardp said:

What kind of leather products do you make? I see that you joined leatherworkers.net in 2020, stating that your specialty is baseball. Do you make gloves? How long have you been doing what you do? 

I'd say most of my life from a teenager to present. Mostly repairs/ minor fabrication of everything from horse tack, shoe repair, hockey equipment, baseball gloves,knife sheaths, holsters, and small clothing items. It's been a life long hobby.

[Burkhardt]

2 hours ago, deboardp said:

I know how hot stuffing in the tannery works. Vegetable tanned leather isn't hot stuffed, but chrome leather is.

http://hermannoakleather.com/products-and-pricing/riverbend-latigo-20121231092650

 

Herman Oak says differently.

[deboardp]

4 minutes ago, Burkhardt said:

http://hermannoakleather.com/products-and-pricing/riverbend-latigo-20121231092650

 

Herman Oak says differently.

Unless I am mistaken, vegetable tanned leather can then be processed with fats/ wax/ oils by stuffing, turning it into what we have here: Latigo leather, and other types. Regular vegetable tanned is not hot stuffed. Maybe other commentators can weigh in. I'm no expert on it, not even close. I just make sandals. 

Edited January 11 by deboardp

[dikman]

I forgot to mention that in my early experiments at making waxes a chap who posted a long explanation about his experiments said he used pure gum turpentine (so completely natural) as a thinning agent to make the beeswax/carnauba wax softer to apply, so I made a batch using it. It worked ok but after a year or two in the tin a black tar-like deposit started forming on the tin. The wax didn't "go off" or anything and was still quite useable but I don't think I would apply it to leather, just in case, it seems to work fine on wood/metal, however.

Just a bit more info to add.

[Wepster]

to make the wax a bit softer, see my mention of the wood finish, a citrus solvent - basically citrus oil.

Allergy alert... cod liver oil -- fish allergy

Cod liver oil not considered vegan, if that matters to them.

Edited January 11 by Wepster

[deboardp]

38 minutes ago, Wepster said:

to make the wax a bit softer, see my mention of the wood finish, a citrus solvent - basically citrus oil.

Allergy alert... cod liver oil -- fish allergy

Cod liver oil not considered vegan, if that matters to them.

Good grief!

If a vegan heard about tallow being used she won't want sandals conditioned with tallow as an ingredient.  

Edited January 11 by deboardp

[SUP]

@Wepster, @deboardp citrus oil - solvent - I suspect they mean Limonene. D-limonene smells of oranges which is pleasant; L-Limonene has a piney-turpentine smell, which is not. D-Limonene as a solvent is great as an addition to leather conditioners - it is an anti-fungal as well. Not sure of the percentage needed though.

If you buy plain Limonene, you get the unseparated mix, which smells of pine and turpentine. So if you want the citrus fragrance, you need to buy the D-Limonene. Often though, it is not sufficiently separated and still has some turpentine smell. 

 @deboardp if vegans don't like what you use, it is their loss, isn't it? How much can you really change your conditioner recipes to suit people's idiosyncrasies?

The change might result in a product that is not as effective and that will be another issue.

A question: Is there a need for tallow as well as lanolin in a conditioner? Is one of these not sufficient, along with beeswax for a bit of stiffness and an oil of choice for penetration into the leather and texture of the conditioner? Just wondering.

@deboardp After the earlier comments on applying conditioners to damp leather, I tried it on some dry leather that I have. I dampened the leather with a spray bottle and then rubbed in the conditioner. It slowly turned white. I left it overnight and the next day, the leather was soft and pliable and shiny - whiteness gone. Delighted with the result but I don't think I will repeat - too much elbow grease needed. But the method works. 

About hot-stuffing, From what I have read, oil tanned leather is specifically chrome tanned leather that is hot stuffed. That does not mean veg tanned leather is not or cannot be hot stuffed - just not given a specific name. Latigo is hot-stuffed and chrome and veg tanned! There are others too and since the process makes the leather more pliable, I guess if we look at the processes of making the more pliable veg-tanned leather, they might include hot stuffing  as well.

 

Edited January 11 by SUP

[chuck123wapati]

11 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

HAHA! I want to thank you for not only making my day, but for proving my point and being predictable in response to the saying about the internet I posted.

You assumed I meant all recipes for leather care from 1892, I never said that.The more I interact with you, the more I am understanding that I cannot assume that you are  able to make the logical connections in my statements. That is OK, it is the internet after all and nuance is lost.

So in an attempt to clarify my previous statement that you have taken umbrage with, I will clarify. Yes, there are indeed some recipes from way back when that are still good in this day and age. However there are also others that are not and what I was referring to. Such as those that list ingredients like Lye, Ash, Urine, etc that are clearly no longer relevant. The whole point of the statement is that some people will cling to this dogma and not use critical thinking and question whether or not it's still good information and or get upset when it is questioned by others or when presented with an alternative. It is this cognitive inflexibility that was being addressed.   Hopefully my explanation has clarified this.

In what book anywhere have you ever read that ash, lye and urine are used or ever were used as a conditioner?  Is it in the one you wouldn't post because I prolly wouldn't read it anyway? Still waiting I wont let you down. BTW they are still relevant and still used in processing leather lol as well as many products people use daily. Just made some soap used 100% pure lye just like the big companies do.

Haha and thank you for making my day as well. it also proves this "People tend to disagree with personal opinion, vague descriptions, misconception or misrepresentation. " no matter the venue!

Here is the statement you wrote. "When it comes to leather work, it's no different, especially when some old guy in 1892 wrote down in a book that he used ingredient X ,because that's all they had at the time, so now it's considered gospel that cannot be questioned or a more suitable modern ingredient used in its place. One can slather just about anything on leather, but the old saying "just because you can, doesn't mean you should"  should be kept in mind, even in this day and age."

Clarify exactly how it logically says this. " there are indeed some recipes from way back when that are still good in this day and age. " Fact is it doesn't say that at all, doesn't even hint at that. 

I'll repost my response, it needs no clarification. " I'll demonstrate a misconception you made, here is a short list of old guys from 1892 who wrote books. https://www.thefamouspeople.com/19th-century-scientists.php They had everything in 1892 you have now to make leather conditioner except maybe a few synthetic oils of which I see none mentioned in this thread. Obviously people of that era also had the intellect and scientific knowledge to make it. "

 

 My point is and has been you want to make folks think that leather conditioning is some new found science, because its probably a marketing ploy for you.  All conditioners are a mixture of fats oils and waxs and have been for centuries. As well all the "alternative oils" you reference were also used back then and as easily accessible as they are today. Olive oil, coconut butter and bee poop, or whatever buzz word  concoction, conditioner isn't new my friend,  the folks that buy it from you may think so but most folks here know better. 

I wish you well with that most of the newer leather folks provide a small tin of super secret, eco friendly, sustainable, special stuff to rub on their leather work. It gives younger folks that warm fuzzy feeling and makes them part of the process.

2 hours ago, deboardp said:

Good grief!

If a vegan heard about tallow being used she won't want sandals conditioned with tallow as an ingredient.  

she probably would want want the leather sandals either. 

[SUP]

@ScottWolf I'm sure your leather conditioner is perfectly fine and works well. But that does not mean other ingredients or other recipes don't. They do. 

[deboardp]

2 hours ago, SUP said:

@Wepster, @deboardp citrus oil - solvent - I suspect they mean Limonene. D-limonene smells of oranges which is pleasant; L-Limonene has a piney-turpentine smell, which is not. D-Limonene as a solvent is great as an addition to leather conditioners - it is an anti-fungal as well. Not sure of the percentage needed though.

If you buy plain Limonene, you get the unseparated mix, which smells of pine and turpentine. So if you want the citrus fragrance, you need to buy the D-Limonene. Often though, it is not sufficiently separated and still has some turpentine smell. 

 @deboardp if vegans don't like what you use, it is their loss, isn't it? How much can you really change your conditioner recipes to suit people's idiosyncrasies?

The change might result in a product that is not as effective and that will be another issue.

A question: Is there a need for tallow as well as lanolin in a conditioner? Is one of these not sufficient, along with beeswax for a bit of stiffness and an oil of choice for penetration into the leather and texture of the conditioner? Just wondering.

@deboardp After the earlier comments on applying conditioners to damp leather, I tried it on some dry leather that I have. I dampened the leather with a spray bottle and then rubbed in the conditioner. It slowly turned white. I left it overnight and the next day, the leather was soft and pliable and shiny - whiteness gone. Delighted with the result but I don't think I will repeat - too much elbow grease needed. But the method works. 

About hot-stuffing, From what I have read, oil tanned leather is specifically chrome tanned leather that is hot stuffed. That does not mean veg tanned leather is not or cannot be hot stuffed - just not given a specific name. Latigo is hot-stuffed and chrome and veg tanned! There are others too and since the process makes the leather more pliable, I guess if we look at the processes of making the more pliable veg-tanned leather, they might include hot stuffing  as well.

 

You ask some good questions. The monks are all vegetarians, and they are half my target demographic. The other half is lay people, who are probably a mix of vegetarian, vegan, and meat eater. However, I have a blessing to use whatever works best in the conditioner. Thus I am not concerned, not in the least, to losing a potential customer because of tallow in the recipe. I mean, good grief, they're okay with the animal's skin being on their feet, but not it's fat? What would be the reasoning there?? Actually, I don't care to know the reasoning, because it is most likely pulled out of that dark cavity. Or totally made up, designed to elicit some kind of sympathy or support or shared whining. Sheesh. Let them live with the consequences of their decisions. They will survive not having a pair of world class (I hope) leather sandals on their feet. 

As for the hot stuffing, yes that's done, as far as I know to create Latigo, chrome and other finished leathers, but it compromises the workability of veg tanned leather. Beveling the edges is not cleanly done, if my memory serves me, and a leather saturated with fats and waxes and oil will not glue well, I think. That's why my warm wet stuffing procedure will be done after the sandal is constructed. It will be done last. Burnishing of edges will be complete, stitching complete, then dyeing if requested, then warm wet stuffing.   

I think that the hot stuffed leathers like chrome tanned and Latigo also resist creasing and other tooling. I want to crease my strap edges and try doing a bead, too. That's done before conditioning and after wetting the leather with water. It's done after burnishing the strap edges and before gluing the dead end of the strap to the flesh side of the topsole. 

Good question about using just one fat. I read that lanolin is not technically a fat. It's missing something in its chemical structure, but it coats and protects wool from the elements, and helps collagen fibers in leather also. 

Funny I still haven't decided about using tallow. I did order two 8 oz jars of Colorado Leather Balm that @ScottWolf recommended, and I might use it on my first pair, the one for my feet, to see how it does. It's pricey, but if it works, who cares??? 4 ounces is only $20. The two big jars is $60 for the two of them. 

I am inclined to using only pleasant smelling things, which eliminates tallow and lard. The Abbott of the monastery gifted me a brick of wax when the candle shop asked him how much to charge me, and it smells great! The lanolin smells great. I think a drop or five of D-limonene might round out a terrific recipe. Especially since it's a fungicide. Do you have a link to a seller?

Edited January 11 by deboardp

[Wepster]

@SUPthe citrus oil solvents I mention do not countain turpentine, ie this one from milk paint

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/shop/solvents/citrus-solvent/

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1105/limone

@deboardpgoogle limonene, Amazon to Walmart and many others.

Edited January 11 by Wepster

[deboardp]

11 minutes ago, Wepster said:

@SUPthe citrus oil solvents I mention do not countain turpentine, ie this one from milk paint

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/shop/solvents/citrus-solvent/

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1105/limone

@deboardpgoogle limonene, Amazon to Walmart and many others.

I just realized that it is a solvent, which will evaporate and leave the conditioner. I would rather have an oil. Orange oil? I wonder if there is such a thing. 

Edited January 11 by deboardp
My phone hates me

[SUP]

@Wepster Thank you! I have been looking for a citrus oil which smells only of oranges. I get mine as food-grade since I use it as a household cleaner as well and want it safe for my pets. But in spite of getting it from different sellers, it always has a slight smell of L-Limonene - piney-turpentiney, as described in the MSDS.  I will try this seller. 

Limonene does not contain turpentine either. It is pure orange oil and the part with the orange fragrance is D - Limonene.  Many companies sell it separated from L-Limonene but I suspect the separation is not always perfect. 

@deboardp, I go on Amazon to get food grade D-Limonene. As I mentioned, sometimes it has a slight turpentine smell but the orange fragrance is present. i plan to try the one @Wepster suggested next. It is technical grade, so not for a household cleaner for me, but certainly for my leathers. 

About oil-tanned leathers, they are easy to line. I use them a lot and am happy with the results. Just made a host of keychains for gifts, many with layered oil-tanned leathers and they do glue well. There is no oil on the surfaces to prevent that.

 

Edited January 11 by SUP

[SUP]

@deboardp orange oil is the solvent. Orange oil is the layman's name for it.

[Wepster]

in the wood finish its wax, raw linseed oil and a bit of the orange oil solvent, the oil part is the linseed oil. Don't know about linseed oil and leather, but perhaps sub NFO or jojoba or what you like and the orange oil... (for a VOC free solvent).

WARNING  some oils mentioned may cause fires as they produce heat while drying. Linseed oil will, rags used to apply or wipe off should be laid flat to dry, bunched up rags could catch fire. Do not know about some other oils that are drying oils (Stand oil is very refined linseed oil, it gives off heat also). Just something to be aware of.

This stuff is to be used on bare wood or something like milk paint. It is ment to be absorbed into the wood. Interesting how there are some overlaps in treating/careing/finishing leather and wood.

Some info on the milk paint co citrus oil,,,,https://www.casketbuildersupply.com/pages/about-orange-oil-solvent#:~:text=A Natural%2C Non-Toxic%2C,a concentrated cleaner and degreaser.

I am done.

Edited January 11 by Wepster

[ScottWolf]

7 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

In what book anywhere have you ever read that ash, lye and urine are used or ever were used as a conditioner?  Is it in the one you wouldn't post because I prolly wouldn't read it anyway? Still waiting I wont let you down. BTW they are still relevant and still used in processing leather lol as well as many products people use daily. Just made some soap used 100% pure lye just like the big companies do.

How familiar are you with the old recipes of the making of leather that are out there(rhetorical)? I’ll admit, I may not have been clear enough in my last statement for the connection to be obvious. The ingredients I mentioned have been used in the past in the manufacture/tanning process of making leather, not just conditioner; my response was not limited to just making conditioner, but to the bigger idea of the cognitive dissonance that conflicting information causes when discussing anything to do with leather.  Again, I assumed you’d be able to make that connection, me culpa.

 

7 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

My point is and has been you want to make folks think that leather conditioning is some new found science, because its probably a marketing ploy for you.  All conditioners are a mixture of fats oils and waxs and have been for centuries. As well all the "alternative oils" you reference were also used back then and as easily accessible as they are today. Olive oil, coconut butter and bee poop, or whatever buzz word  concoction, conditioner isn't new my friend,  the folks that buy it from you may think so but most folks here know better. 

I wish you well with that most of the newer leather folks provide a small tin of super secret, eco friendly, sustainable, special stuff to rub on their leather work. It gives younger folks that warm fuzzy feeling and makes them part of the process.

I have no idea how you came to this conclusion, but you are wrong. I’ve never claimed that making leather conditioner was “new found science” or that it’s my  “marketing ploy”. I sell absolutely ZERO leather conditioning products.  In fact, my DIY leather conditioner thread is all about being able to make your own and I spell out how to go about it and list a lot of the other ingredients that can be used with and or in lieu of other ingredients, like Olive and coconut oil, etc. One ingredient I mentioned in that thread that is newer, is the use of D-Limonene. The only thing I have said I don’t recommend in this thread, based on my experiences, was the use of Vegetable oil and lard (pork), both of which have been referenced in other recipes(YMMV). So what ever you were drinking/smoking to arrive at the idea that I am trying to sell a product or that I have some kind of new age, Kumbaya, tree hugging agenda is flat out wrong friend.

[ScottWolf]

7 hours ago, SUP said:

@ScottWolf I'm sure your leather conditioner is perfectly fine and works well. But that does not mean other ingredients or other recipes don't. They do. 

The only ingredients I said I didnt recommend in this thread, based on my experience with them, is Vegetable oil and lard (pork). All the others ingredients mentioned I don't and haven't had any issues with. Each combination of ingredients has its Pros and cons when it comes to performance and what the user wants to achieve with it.

[dikman]

9 hours ago, SUP said:

A question: Is there a need for tallow as well as lanolin in a conditioner? Is one of these not sufficient, along with beeswax for a bit of stiffness and an oil of choice for penetration into the leather and texture of the conditioner? Just wondering.

 

The tallow has a lower melting point than beeswax so mixing it in should help to soften the wax. As to whether it's needed I guess that's up to the person making the conditioner. Making tallow itself is another separate process, of course, which is probably why you won't find it in commercial conditioners, they're all about making a product that will work but is as cheap to make as possible. Looking at the MSDS for them generally shows beeswax, mineral oil and a few other man-made products in very small percentages. Olive oil mixed with beeswax makes a great soft paste, I made some years ago and it hasn't gone off yet.

[ScottWolf]

As mentioned above, I have found D-Limonene use in conditioners to be a great addition to any formulation of ingredients one may prefer. I will add this about it though, as its worth noting when sourcing D-Limonene from all the products out there. When looking at the different grades and terms, this is what they mean in simple terms.

 

D-Limonene vs "Citrus oil". Is there a difference?

The short answer is yes. But its not that clear cut, so I will elaborate. Both D-limonene and orange oil are citrus-derived, however there is a difference . "Orange oil" is a broad term that includes several different compounds in it, with D-limonene being one of its components, at a lower % level than pure D-Limonene. To compare it to another substance we use, 100% D-Limonene is like 100% NFO. Citrus oil is like NFO Compound.

Now, this is where it gets murky when trying to source your D-Limonene online. You absolutely can find products being sold with the words "Citrus oil" on the label and the words 100% D-Limonene right below and it is a clear liquid. You will also absolutely encounter products labeled "Citrus Oil" that will be dark orange-ish in color and when you look at the back label or the MSDS, you will see a % of D-Limonene it has in it, but it won't be 100%. I've seen it as low as 10%. When sourcing your D-Limonene, make sure it is a Clear liquid and or ensure the label say 100% D-Limonene. 

 

D-Limonene comes in different grades and you may see them listed as:

1. Technical grade (purity, +/- 95%) Comes as a clear liquid, which is clear/colorless to yellow tint with a strong citrus odor.

2. Food grade (purity, +/- 97%), Is a clear water-white liquid with a mild orange odor. Is often labeled as 100% D Limonene

Bottom Line: If you want the best quality/purest form, it should be clear in appearance and it should state the % on the label. It should smell like Oranges and nothing else. If it smells like oranges and anything else, its not Tech or Food grade. If the liquid is dark orange-ish or has an orange tint, it isn't Tech/food grade, it's likely a "Citrus oil" type of cleaning product.

*Safety note* D-Limonene is flammable. It also has a strong smell in a confined area and if you let 100% pure D-L  sit on your skin too long, it may cause irritation.

 

When I use it in a leather conditioner, I add the D-Limonene last. I start by melting the Beeswax over a heat source, as it is the one ingredient that will likely take the longest to liquefy. I then stir in and allow any of the other ingredients to liquefy, and mix them together until there is nothing floating around in the liquid. I remove the pot away from the heat source and will then pour in the D-Limonene while continuing to mix the liquid. I then pour it into tins and put the lids on and place them in the freezer.

When it comes to determining how much D-L to use in your product, I will say this. A little D-L goes a long way. I use it by the cap/ container lid full. If you know your batch of conditioner will fill 4 tins, then start with 4 caps/lids of D-L, which breaks out to 1 cap/lid per tin. This is a ballpark amount to start with, so you can add more or less as you refine how much you want in your recipe.

 

[dikman]

Thanks for an excellent summary, ScottWolf, something that even I can understand. Looks like it could be a great "softening" agent for making paste wax.

[SUP]

@dikman I have been using food grade D-Limonene for a while now and buy it by the gallon. The MSDS does say it should have a mild citrus fragrance with a slight turpentine hint, so what I get is pure.  It is a solvent so I am not  sure about its use as a softening agent to make paste wax. It might eat away the leather if it is present in too high a concentration, don't you think?

I started using it to make my all-purpose household cleaner and then, finding it convenient and because it keeps away insects and the area so clean, decided to add it to my conditioner. Just a little bit, for the fragrance and also the fungicidal and insecticidal  effect. Not sure how much is needed for that effect but I'm not sure I want to add much more either. I just follow my nose when I add it. Lanolin and D-Limonene together give a lovely fragrance and the advantage is that with the beeswax and oil, the conditioner is good for my hands as well and safe if my dog licks it off my fingers. I make my conditioner in small quantities so the orange fragrance, which keeps away insects, remains. I'm not sure how long it will remain if used in larger batches.

Edited January 12 by SUP

[Burkhardt]

6 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

The only ingredients I said I didnt recommend in this thread, based on my experience with them, is Vegetable oil and lard (pork).

What was the experience with the veg oil that you wouldn't recommend for?

[ScottWolf]

20 minutes ago, Burkhardt said:

What was the experience with the veg oil that you wouldn't recommend for?

As an ingredient in a leather conditioner. Both the Veg oil and lard (pork) used in the conditioners I made started to have a strong odor like it was going bad , over a short period of time in the tin.