wax pot mystery?

[maggielj]

Hi all! 

I finally tracked down a bobbin winder for my randall. But, it came with some kind of mystery… substance in it. Perhaps it was liquid at one point in time, but it is now exactly like pine sap. Just as sticky as pine tar but smells like wood stain. (still trying to get it off my fingers)  Does anyone know what this substance is and what it was used for? I could see tar if it had some kind of heater maybe… I am also curious about the coffee can, perhaps used to keep the thread managed? 

featuring, my velcro dog who was trying to eat the saddle shearling the winder was packed with. 

[bruce johnson]

Wax pots can sure have a heater. Some electric but I’ve seen gas jet and wick flame heaters too. Waxes varied by season and preference of the user. Some were commercial, some shop mixes of wax, oils, and spirits. Solvent and some mild heat should clean that up. 
    I’ve seen a lot of thread spools in coffee cans too. One shop I visited squirted several shots of oil on the spool before lunch so it would work into the thread to lube it before they stitched that afternoon. He said he did it at coffee making time first thing, before lunch, and before happy hour at the end of the day. 

[maggielj]

43 minutes ago, bruce johnson said:

Wax pots can sure have a heater. Some electric but I’ve seen gas jet and wick flame heaters too. Waxes varied by season and preference of the user. Some were commercial, some shop mixes of wax, oils, and spirits. Solvent and some mild heat should clean that up. 
    I’ve seen a lot of thread spools in coffee cans too. One shop I visited squirted several shots of oil on the spool before lunch so it would work into the thread to lube it before they stitched that afternoon. He said he did it at coffee making time first thing, before lunch, and before happy hour at the end of the day. 

Thanks for the response Bruce, Hoping a ride in the parts washer at work will it it cleaned,  but with the coffee can, this one has a hole in the middle for the wooden dowel and sat on a piece of shearling. And would there be an advantage to adopting this practice if thread lube is already being used? 

Thanks 

Maggie

[billybopp]

I don't know what it is, but the dog clearly has a guilty smile.   Just sayin'.

- Bill

[Cumberland Highpower]

It was common to mix pitch/rosin with wax.  Maybe the last batch of wax/pitch didn't mix well?

I put allot of hours on Randalls, over past 20 years, I've not really used the bobbin wax pots except for linen.   If you use Nylon/Poly you don't really need it,  but I guess looks good where it's  supposed to be. If you can find pre lubed thread you won't even need the top wax pot.

 

Edited April 7 by Cumberland Highpower

[Wizcrafts]

I used to own Union Lockstitch machines. The first one had wax pots for the top and bobbin thread. I asked a harness maker what they used and was recommended to use Ceroxylon liquid wax. I still have some left in a quart bottle. It looks and feels like transparent thinned rubber glue. I only used it with Barbour's glaced Irish linen thread. You can buy it from Campbell-Randall Company, in Texas.

[maggielj]

On 4/7/2024 at 8:47 AM, Cumberland Highpower said:

It was common to mix pitch/rosin with wax.  Maybe the last batch of wax/pitch didn't mix well?

I put allot of hours on Randalls, over past 20 years, I've not really used the bobbin wax pots except for linen.   If you use Nylon/Poly you don't really need it,  but I guess looks good where it's  supposed to be. If you can find pre lubed thread you won't even need the top wax pot.

 

I think that's the only thing it could possibly be. I've been working on getting it cleaned the past few days, and between scraping, wash tanks, and solvent cycles, the paint is coming off better than whatever was in there. I'm sure anything stitched with this sticky stuff is still stuck in place to this day! So far I have only used bonded poly and figured I should install the pot if I needed to use linen. Do you personally use nylon in your Randall's? I have yet to try and have seen varying opinions on it for needle/awl machines. 

On 4/7/2024 at 8:42 AM, billybopp said:

I don't know what it is, but the dog clearly has a guilty smile.   Just sayin'.

- Bill

He's always guilty of something! The problem lies within trying to find what the something is... 

[dikman]

My suggestion is heat to remove it. Soak it in a bath of boiling water or use a hot air gun of some sort. Waxes are notoriously difficult to remove with solvents.

[Cumberland Highpower]

22 hours ago, maggielj said:

I think that's the only thing it could possibly be. I've been working on getting it cleaned the past few days, and between scraping, wash tanks, and solvent cycles, the paint is coming off better than whatever was in there. I'm sure anything stitched with this sticky stuff is still stuck in place to this day! So far I have only used bonded poly and figured I should install the pot if I needed to use linen. Do you personally use nylon in your Randall's? I have yet to try and have seen varying opinions on it for needle/awl machines. 

He's always guilty of something! The problem lies within trying to find what the something is... 

I prefer Poly thread for most of the items we make with the Randalls, but use nylon when i want different colors.  Both Nylon and Poly work fine.  There's some kind of "myth" that you can't use nylon or poly, but that's just a myth..   I know an Amishman who has a harness shop and of 4 UL's that run 8hrs a day, they've never seen a spool of linen in the 40 years they've been in operation there.  

Now I've never run synthetics under 207 on a hook and awl, so something like 138 might be a different story?

Nylon does have more stretch/elasticity than poly. Once you set your brakes/pullers or tension (depends on the machine) you're all set.

Both work fine in Union Locks, Landis 16's, Champions, Randalls.  Never seen a machine that can't run great with nylon/poly.

To be honest, it's hard to get good linen thread anymore.   I used to run linen on some things, but nowadays you can't really get good linen.  Poor quality linen is a pain. Barbours was really good until it was gone.  Hungarian linen was ok.  Seems it may be unavailable?  Have seen a little Chinese linen...Barf. 

I did see Somak in UK has some linen, but never looked to see if z twist was available.

 

Edited April 18 by Cumberland Highpower

[FDC]

I’ve used an ultrasonic cleaner. It takes a few cycles and it needs to be hot.