retapping two screw holes on 441

[esantoro]

Have any of you who have a 441 clone ever encountered a problem with the two screw holes right of the needle plate stripping and needing to be retapped. These are the two screw holes that secure the metal plate to the right of the needle plate or the T-bar ffor the material guide.

I was just now doing some stitching. I was resting my hand on that T-Bar as I leaned in to get a closer look at a stitch, and those two screws popped out under the pressure I had applied. Does this mean I need to retap those holes or might there be some other fix? Anyone ever experience this?

Thanks,

Ed

[Regis]

Ed,

You might try a helicoil thread insert before drilling larger to tap.

Regis

[esantoro]

Ed,

You might try a helicoil thread insert before drilling larger to tap.

Regis

Thanks regis, I think one thing I need to do for sure is run to home depota and get screws that are longer than 10.5 mm, about a quarter of an inch longer.

ed

[Jordan]

A couple of thoughts, vibration may have loosened them to the point of release, blue loctite will take care of that, just a drop on each. Do Not Use red loctite unless you want them permenent. If the screws are stripped then replace, If the holes are stripped then a retap or helicoil is in order, retap go with a slightly larger diameter and longer screw, helicoil will need a smaller screw I think. These are a couple of things I have done with repairing old motorcycles, but should translate to any vibration prone machinery.

[esantoro]

A couple of thoughts, vibration may have loosened them to the point of release, blue loctite will take care of that, just a drop on each. Do Not Use red loctite unless you want them permenent. If the screws are stripped then replace, If the holes are stripped then a retap or helicoil is in order, retap go with a slightly larger diameter and longer screw, helicoil will need a smaller screw I think. These are a couple of things I have done with repairing old motorcycles, but should translate to any vibration prone machinery.

Thanks Jordan. I think a combination of blue locktite and longer screws are in order.

By the way, how long are these screws in the 441 versions others of you might have?

Mine I think are just what the manual states: 11/64- 10.5

Ed

[esantoro]

just got back from home depot with some 8/32" bolts. They seem a bit tight in the machine and don't want tot force it. Doeas anyone know where I can get the 11/64" bolts with a thread pitch of 40 and about 3/4" long. I'll try some other hardware stores tomorrow. I was almost sure these bolts would work.

ed

[Luke Hatley]

Ed just a thought......could the holes or boldts be Metric?

[esantoro]

Ed just a thought......could the holes or boldts be Metric?

The manual says 11/64-40 10.5

At home depot I tried the bolt in the metric screw holes. didn't fit any. I tried the 8/32" hole it fit but not 100 percent perfectly. I'll look around more tomorrow for 11/64" and metric. My other option is to get the locktite titen gap builder, but I still think I need to get longer bolts. The original bolts are about 3/8" long.

ed

[esantoro]

I couldn't find many metric bolts at home depot. Any suggestions for another source?

[Geoffc]

You can get metric bolts at any autoparts house..

Geoff

[esantoro]

I just now downloaded this pdf and am wondering if a 3/16" bolt with 40 tpi would work. Thanks for the tip on the auto part's store. I'll try tomorrow.

fasteners_nuts_bolts_screws_chart.pdf

fasteners_nuts_bolts_screws_chart.pdf

[esantoro]

I found a pretty large selection of bolts at boltdepot.com

http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?cc=1...m=6&cd=1208

if the original allenhead bolt in the machine is 11/64" , in decimal that would be 0.171875". The allenhead bolts I bought tonight at home depot are #8-32 (which I understand to be the same as 8/32", which in decimal is 0.25"). I could return to home depot and get the #6-32 allenhead bolts, which in decimal is 0.1875",just a bit wider than the 11/64 bolts.

When I was looking at the 6-32 bolts, they seemed much too narrow. I think I remember even trying the original bolt in the 6-32 demo hole at home depot, not a chance. Am I correct in assuming 8-32 and 6-32 respectively are 8/32" and 6/32"?

Ed

[esantoro]

I found a pretty large selection of bolts at boltdepot.com

http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?cc=1...m=6&cd=1208

if the original allenhead bolt in the machine is 11/64" , in decimal that would be 0.171875". The allenhead bolts I bought tonight at home depot are #8-32 (which I understand to be the same as 8/32", which in decimal is 0.25"). I could return to home depot and get the #6-32 allenhead bolts, which in decimal is 0.1875",just a bit wider than the 11/64 bolts.

When I was looking at the 6-32 bolts, they seemed much too narrow. I think I remember even trying the original bolt in the 6-32 demo hole at home depot, not a chance. Am I correct in assuming 8-32 and 6-32 respectively are 8/32" and 6/32"?

Ed

I've been doing a bit of research and have realized that my understanding of bolt measurements is faulty: an #8-32 is not 8/32". I took a caliper measurement of the original bolt and it is about .150" thick, which means the replacement bolt cannot be 11/64". The bolts picked up at HD are about .160" thick. What to do, what to do? The only thing I think I am sure of is that the tpi must be 40.

My next best educated guess is that a US #8 is about the same as a metric #4, which is about 5/32" thick, which is about .15625".

I think my real problem is that I need a tpi of 40. The bolts I bought may be an adequate thickness, but their tpi is 32 not 40 .

Ah, hell, I'm calling Artisan tomorrow to see what screws they have.

ed

Edited February 18, 2008 by esantoro

[esantoro]

okay , now I'm really starting to get pissed off. I just now tried the screws from the needle plate, which are .165" thick. They work fabulously in the holes for my material guide.

The manual says that those screws for the needle plate are supposed to be 3/16" with a pitch of 28. No way in hell does that screw have a pitch of 28. It has the same pitch as the screw that's giving me this headache.

Here's what I'm gathering now. I just need a fricken screw that has a tpi/pitch of 40 , is about 3/4" long , and has a thickness of about .160" to .161".

The screws I picked up at HP would work nicely if only they had a pitch of 40 instead of 32. I might just be able to use metric screws: 4mm with a pitch of .7

Ed

Edited February 18, 2008 by esantoro

[gunfighter48]

Hi Ed,

Try Lowes hardware center if you have one locally. They usually stock a wider variety of screws, bolts, etc, in both SAE and Metric.

John

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

Try Lowes hardware center if you have one locally. They usually stock a wider variety of screws, bolts, etc, in both SAE and Metric.

John

Hi John,

Funny you should mention Lowes. I'm just on my way out the door on my way to them.

Ed

[Artisan Dave]

If you didn't resolve your problem at Lowes........drop me a note and I'll send you out replacement screws of the same specs as you listed.

Of course, the screw may not be your problem - you may have a stripped casting.

I can send you the same spec screw - or longer if you prefer. Just let me know.

Now when you think of all you time lost, gas wasted looking for a screw replacement, etc. - YOU SHOULD HAVE INVESTED IN AN ARTISAN!

(I rest my case, your honor)

Seriously though, as long as I have it in stock, I would be happy to send you whatever screws you need.

[esantoro]

If you didn't resolve your problem at Lowes........drop me a note and I'll send you out replacement screws of the same specs as you listed.

Of course, the screw may not be your problem - you may have a stripped casting.

I can send you the same spec screw - or longer if you prefer. Just let me know.

Now when you think of all you time lost, gas wasted looking for a screw replacement, etc. - YOU SHOULD HAVE INVESTED IN AN ARTISAN!

(I rest my case, your honor)

Seriously though, as long as I have it in stock, I would be happy to send you whatever screws you need.

Hi Dave,

I knew this was going to come up, and I was dreading it. I still do buy some things from Artisan.

I picked up some M4 x .7 x 12mm screws and some loctite blue at lowes. It will be a temporary fit.

Dave, do you happen to have those 11/64-40 screws that are listed in the 4000/3000 manual, or do you have other specs on that screw?

Oh, yeah, I tried both screws in Lowes thread demo setup: The original screw which started this problem, and most likely is an M4 x .7 x 10mm, fit only the M4 x .7 threaded socket in the demo. The other screw from my needle plate, which fits perfectly and is a bit bigger than the M4 screw, did not fit any of the sockets, which only allows me to conclude that that screw is the nefarious 11/64 - 40.

Thanks for your help, Dave. I'll give you a call tomorrow and buy your double toe harness foot as well, and if possible two 11/64 - 40 screws of 3/4" length and two 3/4" long screws of the size that will fit in the needle plate holes just to be sure.

Ed

P.s. I am getting exercise, which we Americans do seem to lack these days. And I do enjoy any excuse I can to use my 30-day unlimited metro card around NYC. And, what is more, whenever I'm on the NYC subway I get new ideas for bags, though that usually happens around Manhattan.

Edited February 19, 2008 by esantoro

[esantoro]

I'll be calling Dave at Artisan tomorrow to get the proper screws, but all this running around town has introduced me to loctite products, which seem to be good to have on hand.

I picked up loctite blue and M4 screws. I also noticed another loctite product, loctite TiteN, which is used for securing screws but also filling in gaps, when screw and tap are not ideally suited to one another. The loctite TiteN I saw was for wood screws and the package stated to get Loctite TiteN for bolts for metal to metal applications. I haven't been able to find this anywhere. Is it no longer made, or does loctite blue replace it?

Thanks,

Ed

[skipj]

Ed, the pdf chart you posted listed a #6-40 NF screw. NF stands for national fine, which as I remember is a screw with a #6 diameter but with 40 threads per inch. Natonal course have less threads per inch but are cut deeper. I've never heard of an 11/64 screw size.

SkipJ

[esantoro]

Ed, the pdf chart you posted listed a #6-40 NF screw. NF stands for national fine, which as I remember is a screw with a #6 diameter but with 40 threads per inch. Natonal course have less threads per inch but are cut deeper. I've never heard of an 11/64 screw size.

SkipJ

Hi Skip,

Thanks for the heads up. I'm certain that if I try a U.S. screw, it has to be a #8. All I've been able to find in a #8 is a TPI of 32. Now I'll look around for an NF 36.

In metric the closest fit has been an M4 x .7, but the fit is just a smidgen of a tad loose. This screw plus loctite blue (though I'd really like to find Loctite TiteN gap filler for bolts) should work, though now it has become personal to find the perfect screw.

I think I'll try a hobby shop today.

ed