Stubben Saddle Billets

[TomE]

Learned something new this week.  This children's jumping saddle is a Stubben Edelweiss CS that needed new billets.  I am familiar with saddles that have stitching or screws to secure the front end of the panel.  It is usually necessary to drop the front of the panel off the points of the tree to access the stitching on the billets.  This saddle had no stitching or screws visible, so I contacted Jack Stewart who is the saddler and service manager for Stubben North America.  He replied within minutes on a Saturday explaining the whole process.  Thank you, Jack!  To access the billets on this saddle it's necessary to cut the lacing on the back of the panel then remove staples and peel the gullet forward in order to expose staples that secure the front of the panel to the tree.  Once all the staples are out the panel can be removed and the billets are easy to swap out.  I made them out of 11-12 oz Hermann Oak harness leather.  This project gave me an excuse to buy  a pneumatic stapler to drive the 1/4" x 3/4" crown staples holding the gullet and the ends of the panel on the tree.  I had already quoted a price to the client for this repair, but it was more involved than I realized.  The price of an education.

[DieselTech]

Tom that looks like a complicated process to repair. Way above my pay grade. 

So did you already repair this saddle or in the process of repairing. 

Thanks. Maybe I will learn something.

[TomE]

1 hour ago, DieselTech said:

Tom that looks like a complicated process to repair. Way above my pay grade. 

So did you already repair this saddle or in the process of repairing. 

Thanks. Maybe I will learn something.

Just finished the repair today.  I didn't take a picture of sewing the new billets (girth straps) on the web.  In the second picture, you can see the white nylon webbing with the new billets attached.  The stitching is hidden under the flap, which is why all this has to come apart to change out the billets.  Jumping saddles have 6 billets but only 4 are buckled to the girth at a time.  Allows for some adjustment.  The 3rd picture shows how the panel is attached to the back of the seat by "lacing" with heavy thread in a zig-zag pattern.  The thread is run through all the holes before pulling it tight to draw the panel tightly against the seat.  The panel serves as padding to cushion the saddle on the horse's back.  It is filled with wool flocking that can be adjusted (add or remove wool) to fit a horse's back.   You can see the whole panel in the lower part of the 1st picture.  it has 2 pockets that fit over the points of the tree (the curved metal piece in first picture with 2 leather pads on the tips of the points that fit into the pockets of the panel.  English saddles are sort of like leather upolstery.

[DieselTech]

10 minutes ago, TomE said:

Just finished the repair today.  I didn't take a picture of sewing the new billets (girth straps) on the web.  In the second picture, you can see the white nylon webbing with the new billets attached.  The stitching is hidden under the flap, which is why all this has to come apart to change out the billets.  Jumping saddles have 6 billets but only 4 are buckled to the girth at a time.  Allows for some adjustment.  The 3rd picture shows how the panel is attached to the back of the seat by "lacing" with heavy thread in a zig-zag pattern.  The thread is run through all the holes before pulling it tight to draw the panel tightly against the seat.  The panel serves as padding to cushion the saddle on the horse's back.  It is filled with wool flocking that can be adjusted (add or remove wool) to fit a horse's back.   You can see the whole panel in the lower part of the 1st picture.  it has 2 pockets that fit over the points of the tree (the curved metal piece in first picture with 2 leather pads on the tips of the points that fit into the pockets of the panel.  English saddles are sort of like leather upolstery.

Thanks TomE for giving me a small lesson in saddle construction. So is the white nylon webbing screwed or stapled to the base of the saddle pan? Lmao or is it called saddle tree? 

Thanks again for the detailed write up. At least I got a few pics to look back on if I ever see that type of saddle.

[TomE]

1 hour ago, DieselTech said:

Thanks TomE for giving me a small lesson in saddle construction. So is the white nylon webbing screwed or stapled to the base of the saddle pan? Lmao or is it called saddle tree? 

Thanks again for the detailed write up. At least I got a few pics to look back on if I ever see that type of saddle.

It's a tree.  Traditionally made of spruce and steel.  This one is a plastic material and steel.  The longer webs that run lengthwise support the seat (like a hammock), and the webs running side to side attach to the billets.    

[DieselTech]

31 minutes ago, TomE said:

It's a tree.  Traditionally made of spruce and steel.  This one is a plastic material and steel.  The longer webs that run lengthwise support the seat (like a hammock), and the webs running side to side attach to the billets.    

Thanks. Heck someday I hope to build a saddle. Just so i can say I made one.

I'm curious how many sides of leather it takes to build a saddle? Plus probably need multiple weights of leather as well. 

[Mulesaw]

Really nice job!

Some of the European saddles have the billet attached to the tree with a copper rivet. and I have seen a single one that was attached using a screw. 
When I have to replace them, I check first if it is possible to skive in a new piece of leather, or if I have to take apart the fwd part of the saddle to get the boom out (the cross stiffener).

I don't know why they are made this way. The system where you can sew it onto the heavy nylon webbing works really well, but they must have their reasons for not always wanting to do it that way on the fwd billt.

Brgds Jonas

[TomE]

8 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Thanks. Heck someday I hope to build a saddle. Just so i can say I made one.

I'm curious how many sides of leather it takes to build a saddle? Plus probably need multiple weights of leather as well. 

Stohlman's Encyclopedia of saddle making is a fairly complete description of western saddle making, from the perspective of someone who hasn't built a saddle.  There are also books and DVDs at the Leather Crafters Journal online store.  The only references I've found for English saddle making are old books.  Steinke's book "Repair Your Own Saddlery and Harness is useful, but becoming rare and expensive.

[TomE]

5 hours ago, Mulesaw said:

Really nice job!

Some of the European saddles have the billet attached to the tree with a copper rivet. and I have seen a single one that was attached using a screw. 
When I have to replace them, I check first if it is possible to skive in a new piece of leather, or if I have to take apart the fwd part of the saddle to get the boom out (the cross stiffener).

I don't know why they are made this way. The system where you can sew it onto the heavy nylon webbing works really well, but they must have their reasons for not always wanting to do it that way on the fwd billt.

Brgds Jonas

Thanks Jonas!  I recently replaced the billets on a dressage saddle that had the front billet directly riveted to the tree, instead of a short web riveted to the tree.  I ended up buying 3/16" solid aluminum rivets to match existing, and a dome shaped rivet setter that fits on an air hammer.  Worked out fine after I practiced setting rivets.  On this saddle I learned how to use a pneumatic staple gun.  Decreased the air pressure to ~55 psi so it would drive the 1/4 x 3/4" staples into oak with a piece of 6 oz leather on top, without damaging the leather. Once I got it dialed in, it worked well driving staples into the plastic tree.

[Goldshot Ron]

Tom,

How long did this operation take, and what did you charge?  There are few, if any, English repair people in my area.  I have requests for repairs, but I really do not know what I am doing, and it takes time to figure out how to take the different saddles apart.  So, I seldom say yes to requests.

What I hear you saying is that instead of the stitching in front along the swell it is along the rear?  Is there any alternative, other than purchasing a stapler, to reinstall the pieces of the saddle that have to be removed?

Thanks Ron