vintage Singer 201k for edge binding

[TonyGreen3455]

hello

some Q's from newby to experts

as an amator I'm sewing a bags and some other leather and canvas accesoires.
from time to time for small projects it is necessary to edge bag's canvas or cover the edge of the leather (up to 2mm thickness) with a leather tape.

have asked for some advice before, and the general opinion was - needed a  separate machine, adjusted for these needs only. 
my sleeved workhorse constantly used for a common sewing tasks.

there is an idea to buy a vintage Singer 201k (portable) and use it for it

pro's for 201's: 
portability - there is a critical lack of space!
occasional needs
sews everything that comming under the foot (almost)
finaly - price

cons - ???

how the idea looks in general?
any opinions for it or machine recomendation welcomed

[Northmount]

3 hours ago, TonyGreen3455 said:

some Q's from newby to experts

Moved your post to leather sewing machines.

[CowboyBob]

7 hours ago, TonyGreen3455 said:

hello

some Q's from newby to experts

as an amator I'm sewing a bags and some other leather and canvas accesoires.
from time to time for small projects it is necessary to edge bag's canvas or cover the edge of the leather (up to 2mm thickness) with a leather tape.

have asked for some advice before, and the general opinion was - needed a  separate machine, adjusted for these needs only. 
my sleeved workhorse constantly used for a common sewing tasks.

there is an idea to buy a vintage Singer 201k (portable) and use it for it

pro's for 201's: 
portability - there is a critical lack of space!
occasional needs
sews everything that comming under the foot (almost)
finaly - price

cons - ???

how the idea looks in general?
any opinions for it or machine recomendation welcomed

If you want to use a portable get a Singer 15-91 the 201 is best for dress making it won't use the #69 (T40) thread like the 15-91 will.

Edited October 16, 2024 by CowboyBob

[TonyGreen3455]

14 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

If you want to use a portable get a Singer 15-91 the 201 is best for dress making it won't use the #69 (T40) thread like the 15-91 will.

important note, thank you
are there other portable machines that will work with t40 thread or heavier?
pfaff 130 can be used for that purpose?

and one more thing - will the common vintage Singer (not-walking foot) marks the leather and how to avoid it (if ever possible)

Edited October 17, 2024 by TonyGreen3455
adding

[Gymnast]

In my opinion, the Singer 15 and 201 got about same performance. I think the Singer 15 is close to a Pfaff 30, and I have tried to make a comparison of a Pfaff 30 and Singer 201 with this video for heavier work: https://youtu.be/u2D2DEKtgFQ

I think the possible limitations for the standard Singer 201 or 15 is the lack of low speed control and its possible max reliable thread tension. So you may look into doing a few modifications to the Singer 201, like making a speed reducer and using a heavier tension spring.

 

[CowboyBob]

1 hour ago, Gymnast said:

In my opinion, the Singer 15 and 201 got about same performance. I think the Singer 15 is close to a Pfaff 30, and I have tried to make a comparison of a Pfaff 30 and Singer 201 with this video for heavier work: https://youtu.be/u2D2DEKtgFQ

I think the possible limitations for the standard Singer 201 or 15 is the lack of low speed control and its possible max reliable thread tension. So you may look into doing a few modifications to the Singer 201, like making a speed reducer and using a heavier tension spring.

 

Nice video,the 207 thread sews good on the Pfaff 30.The shuttle in the 15 class allows for larger thread,I've never tried heavy thread on the 201 since it's a rotary hook & usually won't take as big of thread & the 15's are alot more common in this area.

[Northmount]

2 hours ago, TonyGreen3455 said:

and one more thing - will the common vintage Singer (not-walking foot) marks the leather and how to avoid it (if ever possible)

Have you read through this thread? 

It answers many questions.

[Gymnast]

2 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

Nice video,the 207 thread sews good on the Pfaff 30.The shuttle in the 15 class allows for larger thread,I've never tried heavy thread on the 201 since it's a rotary hook & usually won't take as big of thread & the 15's are alot more common in this area.

Thanks. Yes, I guess the CB-bobbin allows for thicker thread, but the 201 actually was able to handle this thread as well. I guess, that when you compare a Singer 15-91 and a 201-2 in the US, that have got the same potted motors, then you will find the 15-91 to be better, because the 201-2 require more torque from the motor to operate thicker threads. TonyGreen is from UK, and these machines are belt driven machines in Europe (with few exceptions). Belt driven machines got more possibilities for changing the motor power or using speed reducers.

I agree with the Northmount and Wiz, that a walking foot machine is better for leather and jobs like this. But TonyGreen asked for advise on smaller household machines, and some of them can do some jobs too, if you modify them.

[Constabulary]

Stop bouncing around with these stupid domestic sewing machines. Just don´t force them to sew things that they are not designed for. Having no space at home may be a reason but not a good one. 

Better invest some time and "brain grease" for setting up a proper industrial sewing machine for "table top use". Get one based on a Singer 111w / 111G -  or even better a cylinder arm machine based on singer 153. You can set it up for plain sewing (up to 9mm or even 12mm depending on the subclass) and even for proper binding work. You can get all the accessories you need for these machine for piping work, binding work, different feet, needle plates, feed dogs - just everything.

Having that said - setting up certain machines to run leather tape for binding is not a easy task at all (even for industrial sewing machines) - it works but do not expect that you "just" buy this and that and some odds and ends on Ebay or AliExpress and then you are set up for this task. You may run some trials and figure some errors. Guess how I know.

You have to start with a proper sewing machine and a proper machine for leather work can never be a stupid domestic machine. Basically you need the right machine for your sewing task. Yes some folks force them to do certain things but they remain domestic machines. Sewing a piece of leather and producing proper leathers goods are 2 way different things! Sooner or later you will run into a sewing situation that a domestic sewing machine never can handle. Guess why so many leather workers have more than just one machine? And some even have one just set up for binding edges.

Yes, it costs money and maybe more than you want to spend but life / your leather hobby will be easier with a properly set up sewing machine.

read more about binding edges - you may be surprised what you read:

https://www.google.com/search?q=binding+site%3Aleatherworker.net%2Fforum&rlz=1C1PRFI_enDE858DE874&oq=binding+site%3Aleatherworker.net%2Fforum&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTEwNDkzajBqOagCALACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

BTW - LW member UWE once set up a portable cylinder arm machine - just to give you an idea that you can set up industrial machine in a space saving way even with a powerful servo motor.

Thats what I meant with brain grease. 

Talking about space saving - I once made a "table box" from some old drawers for my Singer 212G141 because I´m barely using it and it is a bit longer that the 111G1566 and this way I can drop the box into the cutout in the machine table and I just change the drive belt and done. Not ideal but the most space saving way for me to run my double needle machine.

So think of singer 111 in a box like this ( see below) and a servo motor mounted in a way as UWE made it for his Adler machine... Its doable and you have a powerful versatile space saving machine then.

Edited October 17, 2024 by Constabulary

[TonyGreen3455]

4 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Stop bouncing around with these stupid domestic sewing machines. Just don´t force them to sew things that they are not designed for. Having no space at home may be a reason but not a good one. 

Better invest some time and "brain grease" for setting up a proper industrial sewing machine for "table top use". Get one based on a Singer 111w / 111G -  or even better a cylinder arm machine based on singer 153. You can set it up for plain sewing (up to 9mm or even 12mm depending on the subclass) and even for proper binding work. You can get all the accessories you need for these machine for piping work, binding work, different feet, needle plates, feed dogs - just everything.

Having that said - setting up certain machines to run leather tape for binding is not a easy task at all (even for industrial sewing machines) - it works but do not expect that you "just" buy this and that and some odds and ends on Ebay or AliExpress and then you are set up for this task. You may run some trials and figure some errors. Guess how I know.

You have to start with a proper sewing machine and a proper machine for leather work can never be a stupid domestic machine. Basically you need the right machine for your sewing task. Yes some folks force them to do certain things but they remain domestic machines. Sewing a piece of leather and producing proper leathers goods are 2 way different things! Sooner or later you will run into a sewing situation that a domestic sewing machine never can handle. Guess why so many leather workers have more than just one machine? And some even have one just set up for binding edges.

Yes, it costs money and maybe more than you want to spend but life / your leather hobby will be easier with a properly set up sewing machine.

read more about binding edges - you may be surprised what you read:

https://www.google.com/search?q=binding+site%3Aleatherworker.net%2Fforum&rlz=1C1PRFI_enDE858DE874&oq=binding+site%3Aleatherworker.net%2Fforum&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTEwNDkzajBqOagCALACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

BTW - LW member UWE once set up a portable cylinder arm machine - just to give you an idea that you can set up industrial machine in a space saving way even with a powerful servo motor.

Thats what I meant with brain grease. 

Talking about space saving - I once made a "table box" from some old drawers for my Singer 212G141 because I´m barely using it and it is a bit longer that the 111G1566 and this way I can drop the box into the cutout in the machine table and I just change the drive belt and done. Not ideal but the most space saving way for me to run my double needle machine.

So think of singer 111 in a box like this ( see below) and a servo motor mounted in a way as UWE made it for his Adler machine... Its doable and you have a powerful versatile space saving machine then.

 

hello

I stopped immediately after reading this )

sometime we have to think out of the box - many thanks for helping in that

great post, many thanks again. 

start thinking about "singer 111" project - any sugestion what to avoid on this way? 

 

PS

many thanks to all for your help and advices

[TonyGreen3455]

11 hours ago, TonyGreen3455 said:

hello

I stopped immediately after reading this )

sometime we have to think out of the box - many thanks for helping in that

great post, many thanks again. 

start thinking about "singer 111" project - any sugestion what to avoid on this way? 

 

PS

many thanks to all for your help and advices

looks like better choice for this project - Juki 563 instead of old Singer 111. prices for bouth in the UK very near (sometime).

small industrial walking foot machine which will be converted to tabletop for binding - any advise for the machine choice?

[Constabulary]

Juki 563 is excellent and 562 as well, the 563 has a larger bobbin. Both share accessories and certain pats with the Singer 111. Seiko STW-8B is another good machine and Singer 111 based as well.

[TonyGreen3455]

On 10/17/2024 at 6:35 PM, Constabulary said:

Stop bouncing around with these stupid domestic sewing machines. Just don´t force them to sew things that they are not designed for. Having no space at home may be a reason but not a good one. 

Better invest some time and "brain grease" for setting up a proper industrial sewing machine for "table top use". Get one based on a Singer 111w / 111G -  or even better a cylinder arm machine based on singer 153. You can set it up for plain sewing (up to 9mm or even 12mm depending on the subclass) and even for proper binding work. You can get all the accessories you need for these machine for piping work, binding work, different feet, needle plates, feed dogs - just everything.

Having that said - setting up certain machines to run leather tape for binding is not a easy task at all (even for industrial sewing machines) - it works but do not expect that you "just" buy this and that and some odds and ends on Ebay or AliExpress and then you are set up for this task. You may run some trials and figure some errors. Guess how I know.

You have to start with a proper sewing machine and a proper machine for leather work can never be a stupid domestic machine. Basically you need the right machine for your sewing task. Yes some folks force them to do certain things but they remain domestic machines. Sewing a piece of leather and producing proper leathers goods are 2 way different things! Sooner or later you will run into a sewing situation that a domestic sewing machine never can handle. Guess why so many leather workers have more than just one machine? And some even have one just set up for binding edges.

Yes, it costs money and maybe more than you want to spend but life / your leather hobby will be easier with a properly set up sewing machine.

read more about binding edges - you may be surprised what you read:

https://www.google.com/search?q=binding+site%3Aleatherworker.net%2Fforum&rlz=1C1PRFI_enDE858DE874&oq=binding+site%3Aleatherworker.net%2Fforum&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTEwNDkzajBqOagCALACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

BTW - LW member UWE once set up a portable cylinder arm machine - just to give you an idea that you can set up industrial machine in a space saving way even with a powerful servo motor.

Thats what I meant with brain grease. 

Talking about space saving - I once made a "table box" from some old drawers for my Singer 212G141 because I´m barely using it and it is a bit longer that the 111G1566 and this way I can drop the box into the cutout in the machine table and I just change the drive belt and done. Not ideal but the most space saving way for me to run my double needle machine.

So think of singer 111 in a box like this ( see below) and a servo motor mounted in a way as UWE made it for his Adler machine... Its doable and you have a powerful versatile space saving machine then.

 

BTW - your project "Singer 212G" is over? 
is there any chance to see the result - motor and controller setup, etc.
for some reason I'll not be surprised to see it under the machine base ) 
did you make any cover/handles for it?

[Constabulary]

As I said before the machine sits in the box and I drop the box in the table cutout of my singer 111G156 which has an under table servo motor and I just put on a longer drive belt. The 212G141 it self has no motor installed. No hard cover no handles. When it is not in use I put a soft cover on it.

Edited October 19, 2024 by Constabulary