To Line or Not to Line. That is the question...

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

How-DEE!

I tried searching but no luck.

Regarding western gun-belts (authentic style, not buscadero),

• How many of you line them and how many don't? Why/Why not?
• Is there a benefit to lining that outweighs the added thickness/expense/labor?
• If you line, do you use the same thickness leather? Smooth or rough side out?
• Anyone ever line with something like thick canvas, felt?

Seems to me that lining adds thickness which can be good, but also stiffness, which seems to prevent the belt conforming to the wearer, not to mention adding weight, which is a negative, especially when you add one or two pistols and the ammunition.

Lining with the smooth side out seems to contribute to the belt sliding down or up easier.

Lining with the rough side out seems to be no different than not lining, and adds extra weight and stiffness.

 

As nice as lined belts may look, it seems to me that there are more negatives than positives. Same with holsters.

 

I would like to read the opinions of more experienced makers.

 

Thank you.

 

Edited Thursday at 09:07 PM by ZARDOZ the GREAT

[TonyV]

It's all a matter of personal preference.  First, a stiff gun belt helps distribute the weight of the gun all around the hips.  Lighter, more flexible belts let the gun's weight hang all in one spot.  Hard to wear all day.  Modern belts are often heavier, and sometimes with a plastic stiffener between the lining and outer layer. This adds complexity and expense to the build.  Unless you wear a gun and reloads all day, it's probably overkill for most people. 

If you're looking to build an authentic belt that's only being worn on occasion, think simplicity, quality and economy.  Use a good quality veg tan about 9-10oz or thicker. Some people like a liner, some don't, but a 2-3 oz veg is what I might use if I did choose to line, which I only did once.  The flesh side or rough out can help the belt from slipping around, but that doesn't require a liner, just use the flesh side of your strap for that purpose.  I've seen several historical gun belts and they run the gamut of thickness, lined or not.  I don't bother lining belts.

In a holster, preference is still in play. If you line it, be certain it is veg, not chrome.  Some people use a suede liner (again, be certain it is veg, not chrome.  The mineral salts can contribute to corrosion of the gun) because it helps with retention. Some prefer a smooth liner to help a faster draw, and rely on a hammer loop retainer, which I feel is more authentic.  I've built a few Slim Jim holsters, all unlined, open toe, loop thong to go over the hammer.  

[Dwight]

  On 3/27/2025 at 8:12 PM, ZARDOZ the GREAT said:

How-DEE!

I tried searching but no luck.

Regarding western gun-belts (authentic style, not buscadero),

• How many of you line them and how many don't? Why/Why not?
• Is there a benefit to lining that outweighs the added thickness/expense/labor?
• If you line, do you use the same thickness leather? Smooth or rough side out?
• Anyone ever line with something like thick canvas, felt?

Seems to me that lining adds thickness which can be good, but also stiffness, which seems to prevent the belt conforming to the wearer, not to mention adding weight, which is a negative, especially when you add one or two pistols and the ammunition.

Lining with the smooth side out seems to contribute to the belt sliding down or up easier.

Lining with the rough side out seems to be no different than not lining, and adds extra weight and stiffness.

 

As nice as lined belts may look, it seems to me that there are more negatives than positives. Same with holsters.

 

I would like to read the opinions of more experienced makers.

 

Thank you.

 

Expand  

I basically disagree with all your conclusions.  Leather weighs what leather weighs . . . making a belt out of two layers of 5/6 will equal the weight of one layer of 11/12 oz.

If the holster is slipping up and down . . . it is the fault of the design and the maker . . . the belt slot is too big . . . they can be made to fit.

Making belts or holsters of 2 layers . . . glued together with contact cement . . . will make a very comfortable and enduring belt . . . to say nothing about it's superior looks.

Making a holster "rough out" is only a personal preference . . . sometimes adding a certain "rough" beauty to the belt or holster.  For a few dollars more and other westerns of that era had some of them.

Double layer holsters also will grip the weapon better . . . be far less apt to deflate and become a floppy mess of loose cowhide.

The smooth side out on a belt . . . only allows the belt to slide . . . if the belt is not made on a slight cresent contour . . . which makes it not only very comfortable . . . but will not slip down . . .  even with two 4 oz revolvers and 24 rds of ammo in the back.  Made right . . . they don't slip.

Been making holsters for 20+ years . . . never had one . . . not one . . . negative complaint on any double layer holster I've ever made.  John Bianchi taught me how to make them with his videos . . . still do it that way.

May God bless,

Dwight

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

  On 3/28/2025 at 1:40 AM, TonyV said:

It's all a matter of personal preference.  First, a stiff gun belt helps distribute the weight of the gun all around the hips.  Lighter, more flexible belts let the gun's weight hang all in one spot.  Hard to wear all day.  Modern belts are often heavier, and sometimes with a plastic stiffener between the lining and outer layer. This adds complexity and expense to the build.  Unless you wear a gun and reloads all day, it's probably overkill for most people. 

If you're looking to build an authentic belt that's only being worn on occasion, think simplicity, quality and economy.  Use a good quality veg tan about 9-10oz or thicker. Some people like a liner, some don't, but a 2-3 oz veg is what I might use if I did choose to line, which I only did once.  The flesh side or rough out can help the belt from slipping around, but that doesn't require a liner, just use the flesh side of your strap for that purpose.  I've seen several historical gun belts and they run the gamut of thickness, lined or not.  I don't bother lining belts.

In a holster, preference is still in play. If you line it, be certain it is veg, not chrome.  Some people use a suede liner (again, be certain it is veg, not chrome.  The mineral salts can contribute to corrosion of the gun) because it helps with retention. Some prefer a smooth liner to help a faster draw, and rely on a hammer loop retainer, which I feel is more authentic.  I've built a few Slim Jim holsters, all unlined, open toe, loop thong to go over the hammer.  

Expand  

Good points.

The belt is for Cowboy action shooting.

And I see your point: when I have carried something like a 1911, a soft belt is just awful with the sagging. Makes it feel much heavier.

But with a cowboy belt, a 9 oz, 2.5" belt seems to handle the load much better for me, especially with the holster and pistol riding lower than a 1911 (in a modern setup).

I may have to make one line to see how it compares to unlined.

 

Thank you!

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

  On 3/28/2025 at 8:50 AM, Dwight said:

I basically disagree with all your conclusions.  Leather weighs what leather weighs . . . making a belt out of two layers of 5/6 will equal the weight of one layer of 11/12 oz.

If the holster is slipping up and down . . . it is the fault of the design and the maker . . . the belt slot is too big . . . they can be made to fit.

Making belts or holsters of 2 layers . . . glued together with contact cement . . . will make a very comfortable and enduring belt . . . to say nothing about it's superior looks.

Making a holster "rough out" is only a personal preference . . . sometimes adding a certain "rough" beauty to the belt or holster.  For a few dollars more and other westerns of that era had some of them.

Double layer holsters also will grip the weapon better . . . be far less apt to deflate and become a floppy mess of loose cowhide.

The smooth side out on a belt . . . only allows the belt to slide . . . if the belt is not made on a slight cresent contour . . . which makes it not only very comfortable . . . but will not slip down . . .  even with two 4 oz revolvers and 24 rds of ammo in the back.  Made right . . . they don't slip.

Been making holsters for 20+ years . . . never had one . . . not one . . . negative complaint on any double layer holster I've ever made.  John Bianchi taught me how to make them with his videos . . . still do it that way.

May God bless,

Dwight

Expand  

Ah! Your idea of using two layers of thinner leather is a different thing. I was looking at two layers of 9 and that seemed too much, but two layer of 5 or 6 would different then. Maybe I can try a belt using what I already have : 9 oz leather, with like a 3 oz liner.

I started making the belts in a slight crescent by wetting the blank and then putting it into a plywood "notch" sort of to dry. This has been only one so far, single layer, 9/10 oz and it has held up according to the wearer. I will continue doing it this way as it seems to work.

On that belt I added the bullet loops afterwards using another narrower piece of leather and the loops were canvas.

However, I will be making three belts soon for one person, and I think cutting the bullet loop holes and also adding the loops before the belt is wet shaped will be much easier and better. I think doing the shaping with empty cases in the loops will be best.

[Cumberland Highpower]

  On 3/28/2025 at 8:50 AM, Dwight said:

I basically disagree with all your conclusions.  Leather weighs what leather weighs . . . making a belt out of two layers of 5/6 will equal the weight of one layer of 11/12 oz.

If the holster is slipping up and down . . . it is the fault of the design and the maker . . . the belt slot is too big . . . they can be made to fit.

Making belts or holsters of 2 layers . . . glued together with contact cement . . . will make a very comfortable and enduring belt . . . to say nothing about it's superior looks.

Making a holster "rough out" is only a personal preference . . . sometimes adding a certain "rough" beauty to the belt or holster.  For a few dollars more and other westerns of that era had some of them.

Double layer holsters also will grip the weapon better . . . be far less apt to deflate and become a floppy mess of loose cowhide.

The smooth side out on a belt . . . only allows the belt to slide . . . if the belt is not made on a slight cresent contour . . . which makes it not only very comfortable . . . but will not slip down . . .  even with two 4 oz revolvers and 24 rds of ammo in the back.  Made right . . . they don't slip.

Been making holsters for 20+ years . . . never had one . . . not one . . . negative complaint on any double layer holster I've ever made.  John Bianchi taught me how to make them with his videos . . . still do it that way.

May God bless,

Dwight

Expand  

I always suspected Bianchi used suede as a liner for another reason.  Bianchi bought ALLOT of leather shoulders. (Good price, good yield, not many defects).

Shoulder+suede=pretty substantial holster.  Suede made it have a finished look at the same time.

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

Here's a question:

I have a couple of big pieces of upholstery leather; the kind used for car seats. I was given it by an ex girlfriend who worked at a major car manufacturer.

This has some kind of coating on it to protect it.

Do you think this wold be suitable for a lining-especially for a belt, maybe with the rough side out? Or maybe not worth it, as the leather for the belts and holsters I am using is 9-10 oz.

[Dwight]

  On 3/29/2025 at 4:27 AM, ZARDOZ the GREAT said:

Here's a question:

I have a couple of big pieces of upholstery leather; the kind used for car seats. I was given it by an ex girlfriend who worked at a major car manufacturer.

This has some kind of coating on it to protect it.

Do you think this wold be suitable for a lining-especially for a belt, maybe with the rough side out? Or maybe not worth it, as the leather for the belts and holsters I am using is 9-10 oz.

Expand  

I've never used that . . . too thin . . . and my experience has been NOT to use two pieces . . . one fat and one skinny.  A 9oz and 3 oz will eventually find the 3 working loose in the glue . . . becoming bubbly . . . and looking ugly.

Match the two layers as much as you can . . . I even cut mine back to back from the same piece of leather . . . 

It also dyes a lot better that way.

Put your bullet loops on the curved outside piece . . . last thing you do before gluing and sewing the two pieces together.  It makes the inside look better . . . and when you glue it together . . . you have glue holding the pieces of the belt loops . . . you don't if you add them later.

If you can get it . . . use 3/4 oz calf leather . . . 

And think about your bending of the leather . . . doing so will make the bottom thinner . . . eventually becoming more flimsy than the top.  It's better to make a pattern and cut them curved . . . that way they always remain the same thickness uniformly.  I know the argument . . . "but you waste so much leather that way" . . . and it is basically garbage argument . . . as you lose some off the back side of the first one you cut . . . and off the front side of the last one . . . and all told . . . when it is done . . . you may have saved enough to make one side of a standard belt.  Usually . . . there is a defect I go around . . . and that defect is in that standard belt piece of trash.

YMMV

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited Saturday at 03:15 PM by Dwight

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

  On 3/29/2025 at 3:13 PM, Dwight said:

I've never used that . . . too thin . . . and my experience has been NOT to use two pieces . . . one fat and one skinny.  A 9oz and 3 oz will eventually find the 3 working loose in the glue . . . becoming bubbly . . . and looking ugly.

Match the two layers as much as you can . . . I even cut mine back to back from the same piece of leather . . . 

It also dyes a lot better that way.

Put your bullet loops on the curved outside piece . . . last thing you do before gluing and sewing the two pieces together.  It makes the inside look better . . . and when you glue it together . . . you have glue holding the pieces of the belt loops . . . you don't if you add them later.

If you can get it . . . use 3/4 oz calf leather . . . 

And think about your bending of the leather . . . doing so will make the bottom thinner . . . eventually becoming more flimsy than the top.  It's better to make a pattern and cut them curved . . . that way they always remain the same thickness uniformly.  I know the argument . . . "but you waste so much leather that way" . . . and it is basically garbage argument . . . as you lose some off the back side of the first one you cut . . . and off the front side of the last one . . . and all told . . . when it is done . . . you may have saved enough to make one side of a standard belt.  Usually . . . there is a defect I go around . . . and that defect is in that standard belt piece of trash.

YMMV

May God bless,

Dwight

Expand  

Thanks.

Good points.

 

[dikman]

You want to be certain the car leather is veg and not chrome tanned.

[ZARDOZ the GREAT]

  16 hours ago, dikman said:

You want to be certain the car leather is veg and not chrome tanned.

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Thanks