Working boots last making

[Larryvaan]

 

I am working last for working boots and thinking is the last correctly shaped. The sides of the last is more like convex-form (does not thin-out so), when commercial lasts and other I have seen are more thin and not having this much material on the side. Should I remove wood from sides? 

See the image with green line what I was thinking of.

[Ferg]

I think so far you have done a great job BUT! I assume the boots will be for you? Measure your foot at least ten or fifteen times in all directions and fine tune last to those measurements. I haven't built any from scratch but I did build a set for myself using a close set of commercial available. I don't remember how many times I measured different spots on my feet and the last. I used leather strips glued on to original last to conform to my feet after I essentially crushed my right ankle. 

Note:  If you remove too much wood in a spot use leather strips glued on the last then sand the leather to exact fit.

[Larryvaan]

Well I first made the last model from polyfoam and covered it with plaster cast. Then I was able to test how it fits to my foot. 

I made tens of measurements before making model.

I felt the model was good and I started doing the wooden last based on this foam last.

But know I have made this last sides based on my foot measurements. Like there is bones that needs that extra thickess on sides. But all the lasts I have seen, are more slim and dont have this kind of shape like I do now.

I was thinking that there might be a reason why sides need to be different from actual foot measurement.

 

[Larryvaan]

Here are the foam model and plaster casts.

 I was thinking is there reason for making sides more flat because of heel area. How you can fit leather tight on heel. 

[toxo]

Sorry, this doesn't answer your question but I have to get things down whilst I think of them. 

Must've been addressed before but there must be a case here for making an exact plaster mould of your foot and casting it in resin right?

[fredk]

4 minutes ago, toxo said:

Must've been addressed before but there must be a case here for making an exact plaster mould of your foot and casting it in resin right?

That was a method advocated in my medieval circles for making shoes.  Not resin nor plaster of Paris but using cement, as in concrete. I used that way to make some lasts

[Ferg]

14 hours ago, Larryvaan said:

Well I first made the last model from polyfoam and covered it with plaster cast. Then I was able to test how it fits to my foot. 

I made tens of measurements before making model.

I felt the model was good and I started doing the wooden last based on this foam last.

But know I have made this last sides based on my foot measurements. Like there is bones that needs that extra thickess on sides. But all the lasts I have seen, are more slim and dont have this kind of shape like I do now.

I was thinking that there might be a reason why sides need to be different from actual foot measurement.

 

I found that actual measurements of your feet hold true. Did you consider the sock you may be wearing? Not accounting for it can make a vey uncomfortable shoe

[Larryvaan]

Yes, I have had sock when doing measurements. And also inside sole, which lifts foot a little bit.

I think I just need to trust my work, and don't pay attention so much on what commerial lasts looks alike. They might to done with more cost effectively also and not so in detail.

[Mulesaw]

I think the commercial lasts (and the older ones that I have seen too) are thinned in the area to avoid the leather to become "bulky" after a little while. It the shaft sacks down it might push the leather out. But I suppose it depends on if you are using very thin leather or something with a bit of thickness in it.

@Tastech most likely knows, He is a shoemaker, so I'd take his advice any day of the week :-)

[fredk]

If you are making lasts for boots you need to make the last come apart at the ankle otherwise it wont come out of the constructed boot (ask me how I know) A solid last is alright for shoes and boots that only go slightly above the ankle

[Larryvaan]

Thank you @Mulesaw That sounds logical reason. 

I am going to use thick (2.5mm) vegetable tanned leather. I believe it should keep the form quite well.

@fredk I have cut from heel to cone/instep. Parts are screwed together. Hopefully this helps on removing last from boots.

 

[Tastech]

@Larryvaan You have done a good job on the last and it looks quite usable however there are a few things to consider before commencing . Heel height for one . Its probably a good idea to have some sort of replaceable heel material . this can be as little as 6 mm or a few stacked leather thicknesses up to 20mm. If this is the case then the last needs to incorporate the heel height . I would allow and extra overall width of 6mm and some toe room of about 12mm in length and also toe box height .You dont feel it right away but after a couple of hours a big toe touching the top of the toe box can give you grief therefore at least 3mm clearance there as well. This can easily be done with gluing some sole leather to the sides and front and then skiving them into shape. But the best method to get an actual feel for the last is to make a sacrificial pair of shoes specifically to test the fit , you can then make the modifications to the last for the real pair . The test pair can be rough as hell , it doesn't matter . All you have to do is sew the upper but only glue down the sole . Wear them for a day in the way or environment you will use them and take a note of where if any changes need to be made . You may nail it first go but probably not .

In the bespoke shoe trade it is standard to make up a mock sacrificial pair of shoes to test fitting before the real pair is made . with the customer present we get feed back and then to their horror we cut sections out to confirm toe room and width . A mock pair of shoes takes a couple of hours where the real ones can take between 20 to 40 hours so you want to get it right. Worse cones to worse you can always stretch out the width but length can be difficult.

If you realise you have got it all wrong and making a new pair of last is to much trouble there is always the option of buying commercial lasts and going from there . On Etsy i have seen lasts from Ukraine that are what i call anatomically correct . some call them barefoot lasts . They are similar in shape to brikenstocks and crocs  where the have a rounder toe area . The seller is called goodhusak. here is a link to show you.

https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/1089736001/shoe-lasts-for-cowboy-40-47-sizes?ls=s&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=mens+shoe+lasts&ref=sr_gallery-1-13&bes=1&content_source=b01e6a2a4020411eadd45b61df19f14b1b9553e2%3A1089736001&search_preloaded_img=1&organic_search_click=1&logging_key=b01e6a2a4020411eadd45b61df19f14b1b9553e2%3A1089736001.

Below is another link to show you the fitting of the sacrificial pair and what gets done to them during the fitting 

Bespoke Shoe Fitting With Legendary Lastmaker Tony Gaziano | Gaziano & Girling - YouTube

I would like to see a drawing or photo of what style you had in mind and perhaps i can offer some advice .

Regards

Tas

[Larryvaan]

Thank you @Tastech 

It was quite a comprehensive answer.

What comes to heel drop, it is 12mm in the last. And I was going to do stacked heel, material is still under consideration.

The toe spring will be 12mm, but it will (or can) be higher because toe area can have less material on midsole and outsole. 

Mock up is a great idea, I will have to do that first. It certainly will save time, money and efforts if something occurs on the last.

My model is like Nicks workboots, but not quite like. 

Boots are going to be unlined, without toe cap and toe stiffener. There will be leather heel stiffener and heel counter. 

 

 

[Ferg]

Have fun with your endeavor. You will find that building your first shoe will at the least, be exasperating. Hang in there.

I had to stop on my shoemaking venture because of extreme arthritis in my wrists and some fingers.

Edited April 17 by Ferg