Renia Colle de Cologne vs Syntic Total a Superfix

[Yukonrookie]

Hello folks,

I’m about to order some contact adhesive again and am debating between the above mentioned options from Renia. Although I’m pretty set on one of the above, I’m open to good alternatives.

It’s gonna be used for sheaths, the odd holster, belts, hopefully the odd saddle and such. So it’ll have to withstand some wet moulding. Although the wet moulding I do would be more on the “light” to “medium” side. 

I will also say upfront that I contacted Renia and they recommended one of the above mentioned ones. So some would wonder why I still ask this question. Well, I’d like to know what experience those of you who used some or all of these contact adhesives made.  I’d like a really strong bond with some resistance to water. 
 

I was a bit concerned people would get annoyed with me for asking this question, when I already got a recommendation from the manufacturer. I’ll take my chances anyways  . These glues aren’t cheap and I personally don’t think it hurts to try and find out more about what and why people ,who actually used them, prefer one glue over the other.  
 

I appreciate you taking the time to read my post and possibly even give some feedback. It’s greatly appreciated.

[kgg]

10 hours ago, Yukonrookie said:

I’m about to order some contact adhesive again

Why not good old fashion LePage Heavy Duty contact cement??? I use it all the time, readily available, smells terrible, usually requires two coats with the first soaking into and sealing the leather and the second coat, once the first coat is dry, for bonding and can be thinned.

kgg

 

[Samalan]

BARGE CONTACT, IT HAS NEVER FAILED ME.

[Digit]

At school and at home I use a water-based CA. I have no experience with anything else, but I'm happy with the water-based stuff I use (Ecostick 9015st): it hardly smells and it does its job, namely keeping pieces together until they're stitched. I'd never rely on glue alone to keep things together; you always have to sew to make it last.

Then again, I have no experience (yet) with wet molding. Is molding glued-together pieces a thing? Most of the stuff I see here look as if they're molded first and then glued/sewn together...

[Yukonrookie]

5 hours ago, kgg said:

Why not good old fashion LePage Heavy Duty contact cement??? I

Yup, it’s sure cheaper and easier available. What colour is it when dry? Thanks a lot for the advice!

[kgg]

2 hours ago, Yukonrookie said:

Yup, it’s sure cheaper and easier available. What colour is it when dry?

The best I can figure is an off yellow. The color really shouldn't matter as you should never see it when you are gluing two pieces together just be careful not to put too much close to the edges. When making a belt I use two layers of 6 1/2 oz leather glued together, as I like a heavier belt and then stitch along both outside edges with V138. When I wet mould I do that before putting the pieces together then decide whether to glue, use double sided 1/4 binding tape or just sew. 

kgg

[Yukonrookie]

@Digit I do use water based CA as well sometimes (Aqualim315). Just with some projects where I wet mould after assembly, and sewing, I don’t like using it. Also where the item is exposed to  moisture and heavy use outdoors on a regular basis I found it not to stand up to snuff. This is also based upon advisement by the one pro leatherworker who I know personally. 
 

Some of the sheaths I made so far were easiest to wet mould after assembly. Usually when the knife, especially the hilt, is a bit more on the smaller side. After I glued and stitched I’d just briefly pour water in it and dump it out immediately and place the wrapped knife inside it. Worked great. Of course some sheaths and especially holsters I would weld mold prior to assembly. 
 

I found that the water based glue doesn’t stand up well to moisture long after it dried and cured completely. So with sheaths and holsters with a welt the glue will detach all the way to the stitch line. Even though that’s only 1/8” to absolutely max 1/4”, depending on the project. Am I overthinking this? I do t know, but I think some projects a water based CA is the answer but for others a solvent based might be the better solution. I haven’t tried doubles sided tape yet. 

[Yukonrookie]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I will go and give the Syntic Total a try. That’s what was recommended by Renia. If anyone uses it I’d love to hear your feedback, but I will probably go ahead with ordering it soon. 

[Tastech]

From my experience as a shoe maker the Renia is over kill for what you are doing . Colle de colone is good for shoe repairs because it dries quick and can be used for many incompatible materials  such as rubber to leather and rubber to PVC and rubber to polyurethane. It can get a bit stringy out of the pot and usually needs a bit of thinning using xylene . Not to mention the price . I generally use run of the mill contact cement for most jobs and renia when PVC or polyurethane are involved . Gluing leather to leather is easier and much cheaper using a regular contact . The shoe repair glue is the same formula only a thicker consistency than barge for example . Renia is not any stronger than the basic shoe contact i use but is 3 times the price . Its only advantage as i stated above is that it works on incompatible materials but even then when the correct primer is used.   

[Yukonrookie]

15 minutes ago, Tastech said:

Not to mention the price . I generally use run of the mill contact cement for most jobs

Hey Tastech, thanks for the reply.

When compared to I.e. weldwood, barge, masters etc. the difference to Syntic Total, for example, isn’t as big as I thought. At least in Canada. Weldwood is $45,95 and Syntic is $59,95. Still a 14 bucks difference and if I used up a quart bi-weekly, or even less, it’s quite a bit. For me a quart would last me a couple to three months.
 

That said, the likes of Weldwood and barge are easier to get on a regular basis up here. If there’s no real difference between them, for just leather, then they‘ll be my choice after all. 

 

Weldwood (red) is especially quick and easy to get for me. Would you say that’d be a good  choice?

[chuck123wapati]

I just had to repair a dog leash I made four years ago. It has been used hard on a daily basis. The Weldwood I used on it was still flexible and strong enough that the leather tore before the glue gave way. Glue is only as strong as the leather is, no matter the price you pay for it.

[dikman]

Nothing wrong with the bog-standard contact cement, and as a bonus it keeps you happy while you work! 

[Tastech]

While on the subject of glues i thought i should mention an observation i have made that would be totally irrelevant to almost the entire population of the world except a for a few cobblers .It concerns water based contact glue .

I dread when Italian made shoes come in for repair . There is a common denominator . The leather sole comes unstuck from the upper . The shoes are usually about 5 years old or more . Most women will buy a pair of Italian shoes while visiting and think they have something special . Well they don't .  Italian shoes are like their cars , They can be well designed but poorly engineered . In other words they look good but consistently fail because of poor construction . Italians are just as capable of making a crap shoe as the Chinese . In fact i would go further and say that a Chinese shoe is usually better constructed than your average Italian factory shoe . Why you ask ?

The reason is the glue used to attach the soles . It's a low VOC ( volatile organic compound) glue usually water based . Some time in the early 2000's the EU in their infinite wisdom decided that thinner based glues are a bad idea so they put in place regulations for occupational health and safety reasons banning thinner based glues .In factories at least . The banned ingredient is toluene which can cause health issues in some people .I believe that the state of California also has restrictions of toluene . What happens with water based contacts is that after a period of time the glue breaks down and loses its performance , in other words it comes unstuck .In Australia we have no restrictions so we can still use the good stuff . Another factor affecting the performance of water based contact is heat . Australian pavements in summer get really hot and walking on them with thin soles glued with water based contact loosens the sole . To fix the problem i have to sand the original glue off both sole and upper and use a proper contact . The are a few brands which have consistent failure in hot weather , one of them is Birkenstock and Hugo boss and quite a few others but Italian women's shoes consistently fail .

 To give an analogy . 20 years ago car brake pads lasted about 3 times as long as they do now . Why ? Asbestos . Longer lasting and very little black brake dust over the rims .I make no judgments on what is good or bad for the environment but i have noticed a steep decline in performance and longevity of many products in many fields . As many will be familiar with there is a certain noticeable difference between the steel of an old knife to a new one . Most of my shoe making tools are very old and still perform better that anything new especially blades that can maintain an edge 3 times longer than a modern blade does .  Having said that ,a shout out to Victor from Starko tools in Ukraine who  still makes some impressive shoe tools and blades .

Sorry for the rant but if its worth saying its worth saying good .

[Yukonrookie]

11 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

Glue is only as strong as the leather is, no matter the price you pay for it.

Yeah, I think you’re right. I ended up buying a can of Le page heavy duty Cement at the local hardware store on my trip to town. It seems like decent stuff. Time will tell, but it behaves the exact same way as the more expensive ones I used thus far. Just about half the price from the Renia options.

[Yukonrookie]

3 hours ago, Tastech said:

While on the subject of glues i thought i should mention an observation i have made that would be totally irrelevant to almost the entire population of the world except a for a few cobblers .It concerns water based contact glue .

I dread when Italian made shoes come in for repair . There is a common denominator . The leather sole comes unstuck from the upper . The shoes are usually about 5 years old or more . Most women will buy a pair of Italian shoes while visiting and think they have something special . Well they don't .  Italian shoes are like their cars , They can be well designed but poorly engineered . In other words they look good but consistently fail because of poor construction . Italians are just as capable of making a crap shoe as the Chinese . In fact i would go further and say that a Chinese shoe is usually better constructed than your average Italian factory shoe . Why you ask ?

The reason is the glue used to attach the soles . It's a low VOC ( volatile organic compound) glue usually water based . Some time in the early 2000's the EU in their infinite wisdom decided that thinner based glues are a bad idea so they put in place regulations for occupational health and safety reasons banning thinner based glues .In factories at least . The banned ingredient is toluene which can cause health issues in some people .I believe that the state of California also has restrictions of toluene . What happens with water based contacts is that after a period of time the glue breaks down and loses its performance , in other words it comes unstuck .In Australia we have no restrictions so we can still use the good stuff . Another factor affecting the performance of water based contact is heat . Australian pavements in summer get really hot and walking on them with thin soles glued with water based contact loosens the sole . To fix the problem i have to sand the original glue off both sole and upper and use a proper contact . The are a few brands which have consistent failure in hot weather , one of them is Birkenstock and Hugo boss and quite a few others but Italian women's shoes consistently fail .

 To give an analogy . 20 years ago car brake pads lasted about 3 times as long as they do now . Why ? Asbestos . Longer lasting and very little black brake dust over the rims .I make no judgments on what is good or bad for the environment but i have noticed a steep decline in performance and longevity of many products in many fields . As many will be familiar with there is a certain noticeable difference between the steel of an old knife to a new one . Most of my shoe making tools are very old and still perform better that anything new especially blades that can maintain an edge 3 times longer than a modern blade does .  Having said that ,a shout out to Victor from Starko tools in Ukraine who  still makes some impressive shoe tools and blades .

Sorry for the rant but if its worth saying its worth saying good .

Very interesting post. This forum is awesome. To be able to hear first hand, long term experiences from pros about things that the “average” guy, or someone from a very different background would never learn of.

 

My sheaths, holsters, belts and such are constantly exposed to the north Canadian bush. My first saddle will be exposed to tough outdoor use. I suspect that water based stuff won’t be quite up to snuff. It won’t hold up to extensive exposure to water, I know that for sure.

The notion that the glue you use is just supposed to bond until it’s sewed, is something I have to get used to. I think that if you’re using glue for something why not use the best you can find. 
 

Anyway, I’m still relatively new at all this so I might be talking out of my … here.