help choosing first leather sewing machine

[RockyAussie]

On 7/4/2025 at 4:21 PM, TakashiOkada said:

@RockyAussie I've been browsing alibaba and found a seemingly reputable factory selling a 246 model at a price I can actually afford! what do you think.. should I get this one?

the product video shows that the feed dog moves in a circular motion, not just front to back like the 335

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HK-246-Single-Needle-Cylinder-Bed_62558318957.html

That would be my choice and is the same as mine which can do about 90% of the work I do at Wild Harry. Note that the feet available on this machine have the same as the old Singer 111W machines which covers about anything you could ever want. Also note that this is for the head only and you may want to get a table and servo motor from them as well perhaps. Do not get the U shaped table as they get in the way too much as shown in the following video which is a different machine but shows the same problem -  

 

[TakashiOkada]

On 7/4/2025 at 5:10 AM, toxo said:

I think we're getting to the point where all the clones are merging into the same machine. Don't know the specs re needle/thread size but be aware that this price is for head only. Table, motor etc will be extra as will the shipping. 

yup, I'm aware. in fact I prefer it that way since my freight forwarder charges by weight, the lighter the better in my case. 

On 7/4/2025 at 8:36 AM, AlZilla said:

Looks like a reverse lever half way up on the right hand side, to me. US shipping is listed a $123.

Your tag for @RockyAussie didn't work right. Start with the "@" followed by the users name and select them from the drop down. I'll be interested in his thoughts, too.

oops. thank you,@AlZilla. I did it right this time haha

On 7/5/2025 at 1:02 PM, Cumberland Highpower said:

I'd probably just buy this machine.   I like the Singer/Seiko clones and this one has a reverse that's maybe easier to use (opinion).   Don't know what size bobbin that "Typical" uses....So I'm guessing it's the "Typical" bobbin?  Wonder if you have a little ability to negotiate with the merchant on price?

When you ask for advice everyone has a different idea of what a machine should be used for.  It's also pretty easy to spend someone else's money....

You can sew allot of various things on this machine.   You can sew handbags and wallets on this machine no problem. watch bands also. A smaller diameter cylinder arm would be a plus on maybe an infrequent occasion, but this might be all you need?  Heavy saddle work? No, but sounds like that's not your thing anyway.

The 341 clones are a good choice but not necessary if it is more expensive.   It's kinda like asking a farmer what tractor you should get to move hay?  One would say a Ford, one a Deere and another a Kubota.  The Deere and Kubota may have wet brakes and better hydraulics, but the Ford will move the hay bales around just the same-And for less money.

thank you, I agree completely with your sentiment and the 335 could be enough, BUT the 246 model I found on alibaba is literally the best machine for my needs on top of being way cheaper than the 335, so I'm leaning towards that one. 

12 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

That would be my choice and is the same as mine which can do about 90% of the work I do at Wild Harry. Note that the feet available on this machine have the same as the old Singer 111W machines which covers about anything you could ever want. Also note that this is for the head only and you may want to get a table and servo motor from them as well perhaps. Do not get the U shaped table as they get in the way too much as shown in the following video which is a different machine but shows the same problem -  

 

welp, this machine (246) seems like the one to get then. by the looks of it, it also can do about 90% of the work I do. that feet info is very helpful, thank you!

about the table...  I'm gonna have to resort to modifying a u shape table because they don't sell the kind you showed in your video where I live (that I know of) and importing a table is out of the question since my freight forwarder charges by weight, I'll buy a servo locally for the same reason. I like making things and tinkering so it's gonna be a fun project!

thank you guys. I'm very grateful for your advice. 

Edited July 6 by TakashiOkada

[Cumberland Highpower]

For some reason I'd probably not go the Alibaba route.

I see you're in Paraguay.   Besides freight, what about import tariffs, and paperwork?  Are they considerations?   

The cost is so low on the Alibaba unit, I wonder if you'd literally be getting what you pay for?  (low)

The one on Ali is also just a head.. A table/motor might $400-600 if you don't have one.

Of course it might be the best deal in the end...But may not be.  Your local dealer has machines in stock, ready to go.  See if he'll negotiate?

Sometimes a U shaped table is ok.  for smaller goods like wallets/bands and some smaller bags it's not bad at all.  It can give you a place to rest things as well as your left arm now and then.   IT's a handicap for larger goods though.

Edited July 6 by Cumberland Highpower

[kgg]

36 minutes ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

The cost is so low on the Alibaba unit, I wonder if you'd literally be getting what you pay for?

The typical price for a Juki LS-341 clone from China including table, brushless servo motor and delivered to the US off Alibaba is about $1400 to $1500 USD. Whereas a comparable clone machine would cost about $2600 -$2700 USD. The downside is probably the lack of support / etc. The upside is the $1200 USD in savings.

kgg

   

[TakashiOkada]

1 hour ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

For some reason I'd probably not go the Alibaba route.

I see you're in Paraguay.   Besides freight, what about import tariffs, and paperwork?  Are they considerations?   

The cost is so low on the Alibaba unit, I wonder if you'd literally be getting what you pay for?  (low)

The one on Ali is also just a head.. A table/motor might $400-600 if you don't have one.

Of course it might be the best deal in the end...But may not be.  Your local dealer has machines in stock, ready to go.  See if he'll negotiate?

Sometimes a U shaped table is ok.  for smaller goods like wallets/bands and some smaller bags it's not bad at all.  It can give you a place to rest things as well as your left arm now and then.   IT's a handicap for larger goods though.

The particular machine I linked has the tariff cost from china to the US included with shipping for some reason. I'm shipping the machine to Miami and then it's rerouted to Paraguay, sending it directly to Paraguay is not feasible because Paraguayan customs, as all other government institutions in general, are very inefficient and corrupt here and will definitely steal my machine. Freight forwarding companies somehow manage to get through customs without getting their packages stolen, for this reason most people just import through them instead of shipping directly to Paraguay without any intermediary. all of them have warehouses in Miami and some also operate in china and Spain. 

my freight forwarder handles literally everything and consolidates all the costs into one easy to calculate rate: weight. they also provide insurance on my package for up to 1.000$ in case anything happens to it during transport from their warehouse in Miami all the way to my house 

it's very convenient, it allows me to buy many leather work related tools and supplies that are just not available in here. most of my tools come from Tandy, weaver, buckle guy, amazon us, aliexpress and others.

BTW y'all don't realize how lucky you are. there's literally everything in your online stores and can import heavy stuff for so cheap, the cost of importing that model 246 from Miami to my country (520$) is almost as much as what the machine itself cost including shipping to miami and US tariffs (604$). if it included a table and a motor the freight forwarder fee would be too high, luckily it doesn't, it's just the head

Regarding quality... I've seen a few videos of people reviewing honkon branded machines and they seem happy with them, but I agree, it's going to be a gamble.

Edited July 6 by TakashiOkada

[Cumberland Highpower]

35 minutes ago, kgg said:

The typical price for a Juki LS-341 clone from China including table, brushless servo motor and delivered to the US off Alibaba is about $1400 to $1500 USD. Whereas a comparable clone machine would cost about $2600 -$2700 USD. The downside is probably the lack of support / etc. The upside is the $1200 USD in savings.

kgg

   

Cutting the middle man out does seem to pay off sometimes.   He's in Paraguay, so it looks like he's importing it to Miami, then forwarding it to Paraguay for an additional $540.  That would but a head in a box to his door @ $1124.    Then adding a table/motor.  Probably some savings, but wonder if it's worth the gamble for someone who's just starting out or having limited funds they've saved up?

I just assumed Paraguay had some hefty import taxes.   Sounds like maybe it's not so bad?

Edited July 6 by Cumberland Highpower

[toxo]

45 minutes ago, kgg said:

The typical price for a Juki LS-341 clone from China including table, brushless servo motor and delivered to the US off Alibaba is about $1400 to $1500 USD. Whereas a comparable clone machine would cost about $2600 -$2700 USD. The downside is probably the lack of support / etc. The upside is the $1200 USD in savings.

kgg

   

Not to mention that it could be exactly the same machine.

There will always be the issue of after sales service or maybe the lack out it. When I bought my machine I tried to eliminate any problems that might arise by asking many questions and asking for videos to be doubly sure and making sure to order a flatbed and extra bobbins.

One thing that pleased me was the option of self oiling. Always felt guilty in the past that I might not have oiled enough.

[TakashiOkada]

42 minutes ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

Cutting the middle man out does seem to pay off sometimes.   He's in Paraguay, so it looks like he's importing it to Miami, then forwarding it to Paraguay for an additional $540.  That would but a head in a box to his door @ $1124.    Then adding a table/motor.  Probably some savings, but wonder if it's worth the gamble for someone who's just starting out or having limited funds they've saved up?

I just assumed Paraguay had some hefty import taxes.   Sounds like maybe it's not so bad?

That's true.

Another option would be to get my local dealer to import a typical tw3-341 for me. They quoted me a price of 1.916$ for that machine, I can also just buy a typical tw3-335 for around 1.600$ which they already have in store, those prices include table and servo motor

Typical doesn't seem to make the model 246 so I won't be able to get it through my dealer. They only sell typical, singer, juki and Jin. 

Edited July 6 by TakashiOkada

[kgg]

1 hour ago, TakashiOkada said:

They quoted me a price of 1.916$ for that machine

Maybe they will drop their price if you say "I can import one myself for $XXX." There is quite a bit of difference dollar wise (1916-1124= $794) but as @Cumberland Highpower has noted for the first time / novice buyer having no support could be a bad gamble. 

 

1 hour ago, TakashiOkada said:

I can also just buy a typical tw3-335 for around 1.600$ which they already have in store, those prices include table and servo motor

I think you will be very disappointed with the ability / performance of the 335. I would steer clear.

To bad Jin doesn't do cylinder arms. Jin is the Juki line of "budget" machines.  

kgg

[Cumberland Highpower]

The 335 in your top photo looks like it's a clone based on a new type casting Pfaff.(I guess is obvious) I've no experience with "Typical" machines or many clones in general, but the Pfaff 335 is a pretty decent machine for some/most of the work you're looking to do.  Most of the Pfaff 335 machines were set up for binding work,  but not all.   I'm guessing the Typical probably follows the same trend?    Dont buy one set up for binding.

I've owned Pfaff 335's and I could run 138 top and bottom, same with my Seiko LSC-8 machines.   The narrow cylinder arm comes in handy sometimes, but being lazy would prefer the top loading bobbin. Some (many) of the top loaders use larger bobbins anyway and you'll probably like that.   Might be a consideration and something ELSE to dwell on.  I've done allot of really fine (beautiful) work on my Seiko LSC's...Some work that you might struggle to do on others, but I don't particularly love how the bobbin loads.  In fact, I'll use other machines at times just so I can avoid having to reload bobbins.

I'd still opt for the "Typical" 318 version (if it were me).  But lots of good choices mentioned here. 

Edited July 6 by Cumberland Highpower