Go2Tex Report post Posted March 6, 2009 Liberals who own guns.... brings up all sorts of issues. Sounds schizophrenic if you ask me. It's like God fearing good ol' boy conservatives who vote Democrat just because their Daddy did. sheesh..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrooperChuck Report post Posted March 6, 2009 I'm reminded of something I once heard, although I can't remember who said it... "If all of us were armed, people would be a lot more polite to each other." Unfortunately, there are lots of people who see guns through the veil of ignorance and prejudice. Some of them know nothing about guns except what they've been told by others. One case in point: about 1994 I was part of the security team on a 10-day canoe and kayak trip in Alaska with Chelsea Clinton. She was about 15 or 16 at the timeand one might think the President's daughter would be a spoiled little brat, but Chelsea proved to be a very sweet, bright, kind, and polite kid. One evening, while sitting in camp, someone mentioned that myself and the two Secret Service agents had guns. Chelsea immediately stated, "Guns are evil!" I tried to explain to her that a gun is a THING. It can't be good. It can't be evil. It can only be used by someone who is good or evil. She wouldn't have anything to do with that. She repeated, "Guns are evil", and I realized I was wasting my breath. She'd been conditioned from birth to believe guns were evil, and no one was going to change her mind. Unfortunately, almost everyone else in the group, most of whom were from Washington DC, agreed with her. At one point on that trip, Chelsea and her friends experienced the thrill of having a totally wild Alaska Brown Bear walk past us, not more than 40 feet away. At another point in the trip we all watched a mother bear and two young cubs browsing in a meadow. I doubt Chelsea or any of her friends understood the fact that if either of those bears had decided to be aggressive the only thing that could have stopped it was those "evil guns" some of us were carrying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Go2Tex Report post Posted March 6, 2009 ........... She repeated, "Guns are evil", ............ Sounds like you were talking to a wind-up doll. Pull the string and she says, "guns are evil". Then her head spins around and green stuff blows out of her sweet little mouth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HorsehairBraider Report post Posted March 7, 2009 That's interesting... I think my point is, maybe don't paint with such a broad brush. There are all sorts of people and I for one welcome the diversity... If everyone agreed with everything I said I would find that pretty boring. Different points of view are what make life interesting and I always am interested to hear what people have to say. Don't assume that because a person might be seen as "liberal" that they are totally evil. They may (like me) raise goats, know how to spin and weave, be able to identify crops growing in a field, and have guns... lots of them... and know how to shoot them, and actually be able to hit the target. And I am by no means unique. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Go2Tex Report post Posted March 7, 2009 That's interesting... I think my point is, maybe don't paint with such a broad brush. There are all sorts of people and I for one welcome the diversity... If everyone agreed with everything I said I would find that pretty boring. Different points of view are what make life interesting and I always am interested to hear what people have to say. Don't assume that because a person might be seen as "liberal" that they are totally evil. They may (like me) raise goats, know how to spin and weave, be able to identify crops growing in a field, and have guns... lots of them... and know how to shoot them, and actually be able to hit the target. And I am by no means unique. And I think my point is, maybe you aren't really a Liberal. Oh and by the way, better not be bragging about how many guns you have because the Liberals running the government right now are working their little Liberal fingers to the bone trying to make them all illegal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TexasJack Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I lived in NY for a time and got a CCW there, because without it you can't even possess a pistol. 3 sets of fingerprints, FBI contacted, all mental institutions contacted, 3 neighbors or friends have to fill out and notarize a long questionnaire about you, paperwork, paperwork, paperwork, ... and then spending 9 months calling the judge's office each week until it gets signed. Major PITA! Was NY safer than TX with all that? No, not even close. A cop came out of a convenience store and got shot because he accidentally walked between two groups that were trying to rip each other off for drugs/money. Their guns? Stolen, of course! Only law-abiding citizens obey the law. When you pass laws against gun ownership/possession/carry/use, you only punish the good guys. As far as I'm concerned, open-carry should be universally allowed. I don't care who else is carrying, as long as I have the right to do the same. Nobody tries to rob a shooting range! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Go2Tex Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I wouldn't carry open. I don't want the bad guys to know I have one. It's called the element of surprise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2MadJacks Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I don't think I would carry openly because I know that some people have a fear of guns and I want to be respectful. Even though some people want to force their beliefs on us. Just don't think I want to do the same to others. And also for the element of surprise as Go2Tex mentioned. Now thats just my opinion, James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyc1 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I just read about the HR 45 bill before your Congress. It looks as if they are trying to bring in laws similar to what we have in Australia. Not too good,eh? Tony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg gomersall Report post Posted March 7, 2009 We can open carry here in Idaho. I immigrated to this country in 2001 from The People's Republic of Canada at a time when they were phasing in the final parts of a mandatory long gun registration as proposed in HR45. There are more people in the state of California than in Canada yet this registry has cost over a Half A Billion dollars and is so tied up in its own problems that it is ineffective. Fortunately we have the Second Admendment behind us and that our current President has not had a chance to make any Supreme Court appointments yet. FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS! Greg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
china Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I compete in IPSC, I used to shoot 45acp, now I'm restricted to 38/9mm because 45's are evil, plus we can no longer compete with pump action shotguns they are also evil. After all the red tape in gaining a handgun licence over here you are only allowed to use it at a shooting range, you must attend the range and shoot at least 6 times a year to keep your licence and you have to renew it yearly. china Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrooperChuck Report post Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) I think HorsehairBraider raises a valid point. For lots of people, gun ownership isn't a "liberal vs. conservative" issue. When I lived in Alaska I knew many people who would be considered "liberal", but they also owned guns. Many of these folks also enjoyed hunting, which is something most urban left-leaning people are usually against. I think people in rural or remote locations, regardless of their pollicital leanings, tend to look at guns as a tool rather than something evil. I admit I'm making a generalization here, but it's something I've observed many times. The fact is, while it's easy to type-cast folks into "liberal" and "conservative" categories (and I've been guilty of that charge sometimes), I really believe most people are somewhere in the middle. It's the extremists on both sides who give all the others a bad name. I'm a good example of someone in the middle... I believe we have a responsibility to take care of our planet and use its resources wisely, but I don't buy into the idea of "cap and trade" of carbon credits. I believe all animals deserve to be treated with respect and be able to live as natural a lifestyle as possible, but I've done lots of hunting. I believe life is precious, but I don't advocate blowing up abortion clinics. I believe we should have a strong military for purposes of national defense, but I don't want them used as the world's policemen. I like listening to talk radio (both sides), but I dislike it when the host starts yelling, pounding on the table, and calling people names. (I think no matter how good your argument is, you lose when you start acting like a rude child.) So, I guess I'm one of those people in the middle. Certainly on the "conservative" side of the middle, but still closer to the middle than the far right end. There have been some folks who have criticized the "Off Topic" discussions of this forum. I, for one, am glad there's an Off Topic section. Yeah, I know there are other forums where one can discuss guns, or politics, or trucks, or jobs, but this forum is special in that we are all here because of one common interest, leathercrafting. I've learned TONS of good stuff from this site, and weird as it may sound, I think of many of these folks as friends, even though I've never met them in person. And, just like my real-life friends, I enjoy hearing about their thoughts and opinions even when I disagree with them. Okay, sorry for the long rambling post. Edited March 7, 2009 by TrooperChuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Well said, I think off topic is a good thing. Anywhere people gather the needs to be a vent. People who don't like to read such stuff don't have to. But for those who do it helps mentally and physically to express your thoughts once in awhile. I do agree that other areas of the forum have had an overflow lately(guilty)of this self expression and we should all make an effort to keep it in the off topic area for those that are perturbed by it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HorsehairBraider Report post Posted March 7, 2009 TrooperChuck, you hit the nail on the head! Most people are just normal people. They are able to view things in their own way, but they are not the "extreme" and one-sided caricatures of a "liberal" or a "conservative" that you hear bandied about. I live in a county of about 5,000 people who might be considered "liberal". Yet, they are cattle ranchers (for the most part) and carry a gun with them every day of their lives. They are fiercely independent. Just TRY and mess with them. That is completely against the stereotype of a "liberal"! Real life is always more complex and interesting than just viewing things as "black and white, period". That's what makes it so cool... For the record, I think it is just as much "parroting" or "knee-jerk reaction" to say, "All liberals want to take our guns away" as it is to say "All guns are evil". (And you now know that in my county alone, there are 5,000 "liberals" on the side of guns.) Going to the extremes like this just will not yield the truth; it is always somewhere in between. Yes, it requires more thought - but that is the glory of being human - you can THINK FOR YOURSELF. And that just thrills me to pieces! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilly Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I think HorsehairBraider raises a valid point. For lots of people, gun ownership isn't a "liberal vs. conservative" issue. When I lived in Alaska I knew many people who would be considered "liberal", but they also owned guns. Many of these folks also enjoyed hunting, which is something most urban left-leaning people are usually against. I think people in rural or remote locations, regardless of their pollicital leanings, tend to look at guns as a tool rather than something evil. I admit I'm making a generalization here, but it's something I've observed many times. The fact is, while it's easy to type-cast folks into "liberal" and "conservative" categories (and I've been guilty of that charge sometimes), I really believe most people are somewhere in the middle. It's the extremists on both sides who give all the others a bad name. I'm a good example of someone in the middle... I believe we have a responsibility to take care of our planet and use its resources wisely, but I don't buy into the idea of "cap and trade" of carbon credits. I believe all animals deserve to be treated with respect and be able to live as natural a lifestyle as possible, but I've done lots of hunting. I believe life is precious, but I don't advocate blowing up abortion clinics. I believe we should have a strong military for purposes of national defense, but I don't want them used as the world's policemen. I like listening to talk radio (both sides), but I dislike it when the host starts yelling, pounding on the table, and calling people names. (I think no matter how good your argument is, you lose when you start acting like a rude child.) So, I guess I'm one of those people in the middle. Certainly on the "conservative" side of the middle, but still closer to the middle than the far right end. There have been some folks who have criticized the "Off Topic" discussions of this forum. I, for one, am glad there's an Off Topic section. Yeah, I know there are other forums where one can discuss guns, or politics, or trucks, or jobs, but this forum is special in that we are all here because of one common interest, leathercrafting. I've learned TONS of good stuff from this site, and weird as it may sound, I think of many of these folks as friends, even though I've never met them in person. And, just like my real-life friends, I enjoy hearing about their thoughts and opinions even when I disagree with them. Okay, sorry for the long rambling post. I agree with you on a lot of what you said (not all), and go further to add that in being able to discuss things we disagree on here, it may help us to understand the "others" view point a little, and maybe find some common ground. When it comes to talk radio show hosts (like Mark Levin, for example) yelling and pounding their fists on the table, calling people schmucks, well, I just view that as entertainment value, and nothing more. Don't worry though, it won't happen for much longer. Soon the fairness doctrine will be put back into effect, and our freedom of speech will be taken away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrooperChuck Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Hilly: I've often wondered how much of what we hear is calculated for its entertainment value. As for the "Fairness Doctrine", I hope that doesn't happen. I don't think the government should be in the business of selecting the program content of any media. I say, let the people who own the radio stations decide what they can or need to air in order to stay in business. It doesn't matter to me if that is Mark Levin, Alan Colmes, Opra Winfrey, or Rush Limbaugh. They all have a right to success or failure without the government trying to dictate "fairness". But, this probably should be the subject of a different topic. This one is supposed to be about carrying concealed weapons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Go2Tex Report post Posted March 8, 2009 TrooperChuck, you hit the nail on the head! Most people are just normal people. They are able to view things in their own way, but they are not the "extreme" and one-sided caricatures of a "liberal" or a "conservative" that you hear bandied about. I live in a county of about 5,000 people who might be considered "liberal". Yet, they are cattle ranchers (for the most part) and carry a gun with them every day of their lives. They are fiercely independent. Just TRY and mess with them. That is completely against the stereotype of a "liberal"! Real life is always more complex and interesting than just viewing things as "black and white, period". That's what makes it so cool... For the record, I think it is just as much "parroting" or "knee-jerk reaction" to say, "All liberals want to take our guns away" as it is to say "All guns are evil". (And you now know that in my county alone, there are 5,000 "liberals" on the side of guns.) Going to the extremes like this just will not yield the truth; it is always somewhere in between. Yes, it requires more thought - but that is the glory of being human - you can THINK FOR YOURSELF. And that just thrills me to pieces! Are you sure you don't have Liberal confused with Libertarian? I can see 5000 ranchers being somewhat Libertarian, independent, self sufficient, distrustful of government, live and let live but don't tread on me, a bit reclusive, honest, hard working, patriotic. That does NOT describe Liberals by any stretch. If you consider yourself a Liberal, then maybe you mostly are, I don't know. I'll take your word for it. So maybe not all self described "Liberals" want to take our guns away. But everyone trying to take them away IS certainly a Liberal or worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyc1 Report post Posted March 8, 2009 I think a lot of trouble for those of us who own firearms is compounded by the lack of COMMON SENSE and LOGIC within Legislators and the Judiciary. These two items seem to have disappeared in recent years. They never seem to be applied. Tony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilly Report post Posted March 8, 2009 I think a lot of trouble for those of us who own firearms is compounded by the lack of COMMON SENSE and LOGIC within Legislators and the Judiciary. These two items seem to have disappeared in recent years. They never seem to be applied.Tony. Common sense and logic? Ummm, you forgot to mention MORALS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Washroad Report post Posted March 10, 2009 Are you sure you don't have Liberal confused with Libertarian? I can see 5000 ranchers being somewhat Libertarian, independent, self sufficient, distrustful of government, live and let live but don't tread on me, a bit reclusive, honest, hard working, patriotic. That does NOT describe Liberals by any stretch. If you consider yourself a Liberal, then maybe you mostly are, I don't know. I'll take your word for it. So maybe not all self described "Liberals" want to take our guns away. But everyone trying to take them away IS certainly a Liberal or worse. I'm a registered Libertarian. People think I'm "liberal" on a lot of things, really "conservative" on others. I just make up my own mind about things. That's what I think most folks should do. After talking a bit with most people, I find that they really are "in the middle" and when they start thinking are no longer "knee jerk" about most things. Oh yeah, in addition to the "traits" you described for ranchers, I've found most of them to be friendly and helpful also! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
