Do we want an "Anything Goes" Forum?

[rdb]

Good thinking, CitizenKate!

[whinewine]

No. This is neither the place nor the venue to spew mindless venom.

That's destructive.

Troll the internet: there are probably many thousands of sites (both far left leaning and far right leaning) that cater to one's distorted views of reality, and those are the places to go if you want to vomit your hate. You'll be preaching to the choir there, you'll reinforce each others' distorted moral & intellectual superiority there & you won't piss people off like you do here in this very diverse, mixed site.

This is LW: a CONSTRUCTIVE place. It should stay that way.

Even our 'off topic' area was fun as long as it stayed out of religion & politics & moral judgements, but it's gotten very nasty & divisive & mean spirited.

LW is for leather. Lets keep it for leather. Lets truly act like the professionals we would like to believe we are.

russ

Edited April 4, 2009 by whinewine

[McJeep]

Oh boy, never seen anything like this question before </sarchasm>

This either happens or has happened to almost every board I've ever been a part of and there are many - I gots a lot of interests While it can be interesting to chat with someone about politics or religion etc, even with the best intentions the typed word sucks for getting a point across without huuuuge chances of it being taken the wrong way. And then there are inevitably those who will troll just for sport. MHO is that an off topic is plenty enuff rope without making a section "anything goes"

If we do end up with a section for that can the section title be marked up as bold and underlined and typed in bright red so it grabs my eye to avoid clicking on that topic? LOL

I really enjoy the fact that this forum is lean, clean, and down to the business/hobby at hand ... Leather in all shapes and forms. Between that and the outgoing generous nature of a group of people more than willing to take time out of their own lives to type away at a keybord to help someone (that they've likely never met before) figure out something leather related? Love this place

But on the anything goes topic?

One of my favourite pics sums it up hehehehehe

[Randyc]

I like the forum as it is. We have the best thing going right now.

Randy

[Luke Hatley]

dont need it........... the folks that want it can use the chat line 2nd Tuesday of ever week..

[Tkleather1]

dont need it........... the folks that want it can use the chat line 2nd Tuesday of ever week..

I have decided to change my vote and side with luke here, after Markb showed me the other site mentioned I checked it out and he is right there is plenty of sarcasm and hate on that site, Dont get me wrong I will be checking it often just to have agood laugh but it is not needed here.

[Rayban]

I say don't do it...like someone else said it above somewhere...there's a forum you can go to to rant about just about anything....why use this one??

True story....I was frequenting a forum where...you know how it is....you kinda get to "know" folks, like em, have fun....all is cool.

Then I found myself in a room with them that I wish I hadn't walked in to....and I saw what they had to say about Obama....Jesus.....porn.....etc......it wasn't the same after that.

The other side of the coin....if that password is needed to get into yours...I'll know to never bother with it.

[flyingcuda]

i think this should be steered clear of! i joined this community for the opportunity to better myself. i fell in love with leatherworking...by the way...the "bug" is buzzing around my kids there are enough people out there more than willing to beat us up for our beliefs and morals and so on. my kids have a safe haven at home with us...this place is my safe haven. i can only imagine the hours and hours of hard work put in from those responsible for this place. i only see it going no where good if this happens. we are all human...doesnt matter how thick skin you are...attacks eventually make thier way through. we all have the need to protect our beliefs and when those are being attacked we lose the ability to stay in control of our emotions. first we may snicker at the attack...then the body temp rises...hands get shaky and then we start typing faster...before you know it something is said that should never have been said. this is a positive, helpful and caring place, they are getting hard to find these days! i think if there is a "vent" section..it should be strictly leather related...stuff like a mess up, or the cat you wanna tar and feather cause it just put black paw prints on your what was supposed to be white but isnt white because white doesnt work clouds!!!!! just havin some fun..anyways...good luck with the decision...i like it just the way it is

[Jordan]

After reading more comments, I change my vote from maybe to no we don't need it. Came to this conclusion due to the consensus that this is a leather working site not a forum for pushing personal views, being mean, vindictive or being a S@#! towards kindred spirits.

[Washroad]

It appears from the posts and votes that the majority of people that have read/voted are against such a forum as "Anything Goes." I support that.

I will also support Johanna 100% on any decision she makes as should the rest of us. Without her, "we" wouldn't be here, ya know?

I enjoy this website as it is!

[UKRay]

Y'know, Jordan makes some very good points so I'm also going to change my mind. We definitely don't need a special place for people to be unpleasant to each other. Perhaps the moderators can simply jump on any nastiness a bit earlier?

After reading more comments, I change my vote from maybe to no we don't need it. Came to this conclusion due to the consensus that this is a leather working site not a forum for pushing personal views, being mean, vindictive or being a S@#! towards kindred spirits.

[TexasJack]

I love to discuss politics and such. I think about it deeply and am not shy about discussing my opinions.

HOWEVER, there are forums for that sort of thing.

One of the great things about this place is that Johanna does a great job of keeping people from getting too far out of line. (This may be my imagination, but her icon seems to smile more broadly when she cracks the whip. A little scary, but I guess it does fit with some parts of this forum. Will she jump in and confirm this?)

If she has to address personal attacks and such on an 'open' forum, it will quickly become a huge distraction.

As this network stands, we already discuss some things that are peripheral to leather - for example, new regulations on lead (that could affect leather sales), choosing guns (and holsters), PETA (Prefer Eating Tasty Animals vs. that other bunch), etc. That's all cool, and pretty simple to control.

I hope that we can keep the broad, open nature of Leatherworker.net. But let's stick with the subject that brings us here.

[Ian]

Johanna, another thing to consider is; I you think you are going to have to censor really outragous posts, do you really want to put yourself in that position and all the certain accusations of bias that that will bring?

[David]

no no No No NO NO and hell no.

I really don't want to know what an off-the-wall nut bag some of my fellow members are.

Giving people an opportunity to vent anonymously is like giving a teenager a bottle of booze and the car keys. We don't need to turn this forum into a freak show train wreck.

We have "about us" and "off topic" that is enough. If folks vent politically, remove it...if they do it more than once, warn them, after that ban them..... this is a leather forum, not Meet the Press.

David

[TrooperChuck]

I enjoy discussing current events, and I've been guilty of posting some political opinions in the off-topic section. To me, it was okay because I thought we were all adults and could "agree to disagree" without becoming antagonistic and insulting.

But, then I saw what NoahL was subjected to after he asked about trying to reconcile leatherworking with veganism.

I'm embarassed by the way NoahL was treated. I didn't participate in that discussion but it forced me to re-evaluate why I love visiting this forum. After a lot of thought, this is what I decided...

1. I love the fact I can come here with a question about leatherworking and chances are someone will have the answer I need, and quickly, too.

2. I love the fact that people who are FAR more talented than I post pictures of their projects here. Those pics have often given me great ideas and inspiration.

3. I love it when the rest of us not-so-talented folks are brave enough to post pics of our projects. I get to say to myself, "Wow, I'm not the only person who's had trouble doing that!"

4. I love the way lots of folks jump in to help when someone posts a problem they are having. Whether that problem is leather related, job related, or whatever, it's plainly obvious there are some wonderful people in this group.

My vote is to leave things just the way they are. I don't mind the occasional rant that occurs in the Off Topic section, but I think some of us could tone it down a bit. (Myself included.)

Plus, it seems to me Johanna already has a tough job moderating things as they are. Adding an "Anything Goes" section is just gonna add to that job, and I wouldn't wish that on anybody!

[Johanna]

Johanna, another thing to consider is; I you think you are going to have to censor really outragous posts, do you really want to put yourself in that position and all the certain accusations of bias that that will bring?

No. I don't want to have to decide where to draw the line, as I have needed to recently. That is why I asked you folks what you want out of YOUR forum. You folks are telling me that you don't want a forum for off-off topics, and that you don't want to read heated or hateful discussions that serve no purpose to leatherwork. That actually makes our jobs easier. We mods usually PM someone "You may not realize it, but in that post you sound like a jerk, and could be misunderstood as a fill-in-the-blank. Would you like to edit or modify your post?" Then when we get a response, we know what we need to do. In the last week or so there have been some posts that concerned the staff a great deal. No one here likes to censor or "invisible" posts by our members, but when they cross the line to "racist", for example, well, we can't have that on our forum. We don't want hateful ugly posts on our forum, and I'm glad you all agree. We are a friendly and helpful community of leatherworkers, cooperating for the advancement of education, entertainment & fellowship. I'm glad we have decided to keep it that way.

Johanna

[HorsehairBraider]

YAY!

[Joy]

There are lots of other forums people can discuss what they want. Keep this a leatherwork site - that's what it started out as, and I think that's where it should stay.

[rawhide1]

Johanna

That's cool!! Lets get back to leather or rawhide!!!

Mike

[tashabear]

no no No No NO NO and hell no.

I really don't want to know what an off-the-wall nut bag some of my fellow members are.

Giving people an opportunity to vent anonymously is like giving a teenager a bottle of booze and the car keys. We don't need to turn this forum into a freak show train wreck.

We have "about us" and "off topic" that is enough. If folks vent politically, remove it...if they do it more than once, warn them, after that ban them..... this is a leather forum, not Meet the Press.

David

Who said anything about anonymously?

[whinewine]

Who said anything about anonymously?

Y'know, it's even worse if it's NOT anonymous, because you know who perhaps hates you because you simply are who you are through no fault of your own behind your back even though they're so super nice to your face... I'd rather deal with someone on a 'professional level' who deals with you as an individual and as business/hobby person. What their beliefs are are their beliefs & as long as they keep it to themselves & keep it out out of the professional realm, I don't care. But I don't want or care to really deal with someone who makes a deal with me & then makes a big racist/political/religious/moral judgement comment of our transaction in 'an anything goes' forum. My bottom line: treat me as a human being: don't make a deal & then laugh later because I'm not on same 'moral level' as you believe YOU happen to be. If you are this way & you can vent in 'an anything goes' forum about me afterward, well, I don't want to deal with you at all, because you can't keep it between professionals (because then YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL! fool).

[tashabear]

Y'know, it's even worse if it's NOT anonymous, because you know who perhaps hates you because you simply are who you are through no fault of your own behind your back even though they're so super nice to your face... I'd rather deal with someone on a 'professional level' who deals with you as an individual and as business/hobby person. What their beliefs are are their beliefs & as long as they keep it to themselves & keep it out out of the professional realm, I don't care. But I don't want or care to really deal with someone who makes a deal with me & then makes a big racist/political/religious/moral judgement comment of our transaction in 'an anything goes' forum. My bottom line: treat me as a human being: don't make a deal & then laugh later because I'm not on same 'moral level' as you believe YOU happen to be. If you are this way & you can vent in 'an anything goes' forum about me afterward, well, I don't want to deal with you at all, because you can't keep it between professionals (because then YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL! fool).

Well, if there isn't going to be a password-locked forum for controversial topics (major opportunity lost, IMO), can we at least ask that people label their posts better? Since there isn't a teaser pop-up when I hover over a topic, I have no idea what I'm in for -- eight times out of ten, the stuff in the off-topic forum is stuff I don't want to read.

[HorsehairBraider]

Well, if there isn't going to be a password-locked forum for controversial topics (major opportunity lost, IMO), can we at least ask that people label their posts better? Since there isn't a teaser pop-up when I hover over a topic, I have no idea what I'm in for -- eight times out of ten, the stuff in the off-topic forum is stuff I don't want to read.

Tashabear, I think this is a terrific point - I mean, that people should label their posts better. A post labeled "Help Me Please!" does not really give much information, and I sometimes look at these thinking I might be able to help, only to find it's actually about something I know nothing about. And then of course there are the posts that I am completely not interested in, usually in the section you mention. Most are really good about labeling their posts, though. And this is great because it really helps out when you need to find out something, and use the search function. If the posts are labeled in a rational fashion, you can find the posts that will help you learn more about floral tooling etc.

[JohnBarton]

It has been suggested that we set up a special section for people to rant and rave about any subject they choose, excluding personal attacks. Some of you want to discuss world events and controversial subjects, and this would be the place to do it. Those of you who hate those conversations could ignore the section entirely.

Please vote. Comments welcome.

Johanna

On the billiard forum I participate in there is an NPR - Non Pool Related section. Over there it's all politics all the time and things get pretty ugly. You would think that people would be happy to put politics aside and share the common bond that is the love of the game.

The problem is that often the controversies which get so heated in the NPR section spill over into the other sections with snide remarks, stalking troll posts, and just general bad vibes.

I vote no for anything like that here.

All of us have our opinions on how the world works, what's wrong with it and how to "fix" it. The staunchest conservative and the bleeding heart liberal here have one thing in common, they agree that the leather doesn't know or care what your views are, you either work it right or you don't and you stand back and admire each other's work regardless of your views on life.

I come here to get away from all that other stuff and I still don't have time to keep up with everything.

Let's not create a place to sap our energy and creativity and cause divisiveness.

[Johanna]

Well, if there isn't going to be a password-locked forum for controversial topics (major opportunity lost, IMO), can we at least ask that people label their posts better? Since there isn't a teaser pop-up when I hover over a topic, I have no idea what I'm in for -- eight times out of ten, the stuff in the off-topic forum is stuff I don't want to read.

The hover preview does not work with the "view new posts" or "view active topics", but it does work on every individual forum on the board.

Some people subscribe to forums they are interested in and get an email notification of any new topics. They can then decide to follow that topic or not by clicking on the links in the choices in the email, or later, while reading the thread, by clicking "options". In My Controls all the email notifications can be adjusted to a member's preference.

I agree, clear topic titles are easier for everyone.

~J