Wickett & Craig vs Hermann Oak

[RunningRoan]

I'm currently learning on Tandy's leather, but will be looking to use better quality leather when I can produce something that's nice enough to put my name on and sell. I'm debating between Wickett & Craig or Hermann Oak. One of my suppliers (I buy and resell tack) has recently switched from Hermann Oak to Wickett & Craig and I saw no noticeable difference in the quality of strap goods I get from them. They're just as nice as they've always been. But I feel there's more "brand equity" in the Hermann Oak name...my customers recognize the name and equate it with quality leather. I don't know that Wickett & Craig would get the same recognition from my customers. I know...quality is quality...but my customers have proven to be pretty brand loyal.

So...what are the likes/dislikes about each brand? Are they comparable in quality (I honestly haven't put my hands on much Wickett & Craig) with the same types of leather offerings (I really like HO's tallow stuffed harness leather, does W&C have offer the same thing)? I know there's a few places I can get HO, how available is W&C? How about price?

[Sharpshooter]

I have used both and really don't see much difference between them.

Realize that I buy 20+ sides a month so I go through a lot of leather.

Ask for their sample sheet and you'll see what they sell. I don't use the "treated" stuff so I can't comment on it other than to assure you that it is available from them.

I believe W&C is a bit easier for smaller accounts to deal with as far as smaller minimum quantity requirements.

[RunningRoan]

I believe W&C is a bit easier for smaller accounts to deal with as far as smaller minimum quantity requirements.

Good to know! I would definitely be buying smaller quantities at first. How are they for uniformity? Do you find the quality is pretty consistent from hide to hide?

[King's X]

It is funny you ask. I was speaking to a belt maker recently who said that he uses HO for his belts and wallets. He tools about 15 belts about every two weeks. He prefers HO over WC for belts because he says that the WC is too soft. Buy the way, he will only buy HO from Stevenson-Paxton in California because they provide him the best deal at $99 side (6-7 oz). $89 if you buy a minimum of 4+ hides.

Today, I spent some time with a boot and saddle maker who says that she like WC a lot, but admits that it is softer. Now she buy the "russett" side and pays about $164 a side plus shipping. She doesn't do too many belts but understand that it could be softer than say HO.

She gave me 4 SQ ft of WC to test out (6-7 oz) and a piece of 10oz for a challenge piece that our guild started.

Hope it helps. It sure helped me understand quality after having to return a double shoulder of Tandy hide because it turned out bad product IMHO.

[ArtS]

I use W&C and love their leather. I use it for saddles, belts and pretty much anything else I make. I buy directly from them. I usually buy they 3rd quality and to me it looks like top quality. Never had a hole in it or brand. Great for tooling. My last order I paid $100 a side, one in black and one in brown, both 8/9 oz. Using Tandy is like going to cardboard but on occasions I get some thin stuff for a small project like a wallet, nothing that I expect to get hard use.

Art

[Rayban]

If you're just learning on Tandy leather, I doubt you would notice any difference tween W&C and HO.....so why not just try them both and decide for yourself?

[King's X]

Amen

[David]

I've only used one HO side and didn't like it at all. Funny you should mention, because it was WAY too soft to use for tooling

SO, I'm pretty loyal to W C. If Hermann Oak is Cadillac, Wicket and Craig is a Ferrari.

I'm a small user and W&C has never demanded a minimum order.

Nice folks too.

Dave Theobald

[Shorts]

I haven't tried WC. I have/am using HO for holsters and belts. It's a little tough to cut curves (very firm) but it finishes very well. Straight cuts are pretty easy with the strap cutter.

[hidepounder]

I have never used anything but HO because I was originally taught that it is the best. What I know about WC leads me to beleve they are comparable to HO and that the differences are small and puely a matter of preference. I've always been told that WC is softer to tool and from some of the other posts, it sounds like WC is easier to deal with regarding small quantity orders, which interests me. HO requires a minimum order which means you have to buy from a dealer if ordering small quantities. I also think Raybans suggestion is a good one.

Bob

[K-Man]

I've had the opportunity to use both. I've found the Hermann Oak to be just slightly better for whatever I make. I've found the Wicket & Craig to be too "mushy" in comparison. I've seen many examples of fine tooling done on both HO and W&C. I think it boils down to trying a bit of both, see what the results are, and then go with that brand. I've used the H.O. almost exclusively so I have a good understanding on how it's going to react to what I do with it.

[ChuckBurrows]

I've found the Wicket & Craig to be too "mushy" in comparison.

RE: W/C too mushy, too soft, etc.

1) Which type of W/C did you use: The tooling/holster or the skirting: their tooling and holster is normally drier and firmer than the skirting

2) If you used either one and it was still too soft, etc. just have them re-plate it - they will do this at no extra charge and it firms up the leather considerably - I know a major sheath maker who has this done even with HO

FWIW - I've used both HO and W-C for over 30 years and like them both - I use W-C pretty much excusively due to the fact that I can buy direct with no minimums and the will split their Tooling and Holster at no charge to whatever thickness I choose or you can pay a minimum charge for other types to be split. For the cleanest of all leather I buy the backs at $1.00 more a sq ft, but there is less waste so the price upcharge is negligible in the long run. For belts IMO backs are best as they have the least stretch.

[kevinhopkins]

Hello Running roan,

I'm pretty much in agreement with folks here... WC will be a softer, sometimes mushier leather. I've used and sold both for a number of years. I've settled on hermann oak, mainly because of the acceptance with holster makers and belt makers. The nice thing about the hermann stuff, is that when you develop a method of finishing your products, you can always count on it to act the same way every time. Not that Wickett is bad, because it's not. I think it comes down largly to personal preference. But everytime I tool or construct something out of a leather other than Hermann, I always wonder why I did it! I've been thru their tannery numerous times, and I can say without a doubt that there's a lot of actual craftsmanship that goes into that stuff. As far as wickett goes, I've never been thru their new tannery...I'm sure it's top of the line. I think they really need to cater to anyone that will buy leather from them, because that tannery cost a lot of money. But it's got the capacity to support that sort of business. I think Hermann (if I remember correctly) only can tan 300 hides per week.

If I was going to emboss a picture that I wanted to stick up a couple of inches over the surface of the leather, I might want to use Wickett. If I'm making a knife sheath, it's Hermann all the way. And you're right about the name. It really carries a pretty big wack out here, and I think that we can all use all the help we can get when it comes to marketing.

As far as "brands" go, Hermann buys pretty much unbranded steers, but now and again (rarely) one will come thru with a brand. Normally, I'll use the brand if at all possible, and charge more because of the brand. It's really quite inconsequential if you're a holster and sheath maker anyway.

There's always the occasional story of getting a side from hermann that has rawhide in it....that's mostly a thing of the past, but it does still happen from time to time. If I remember correctly, the percentage is like one out of maybe 2000 hides. Considering that most go to people that are running clickers and strap cutters, most of us little guys rarely see one. I know personally that that is Shep Hermann's number one peeve in life.... So if you do get one, all you've got to do is call, and he'll replace it for you. Wickett would probably do the same. One thing that I liked about Hermann, is that they actually do their best to get their employees to do some leather craft! That speaks volumes to me. Anyhoo... I could go on for days probably... I just like leather!

[K-Man]

Chuck:

I used the tooling/holster and it was a back. I get backs from HO as well. The last time I bought W&C was while waiting for an order to be filled by HO. I did not really have the opportunity/time to wait for them to replate it.

[MADMAX22]

Have not tried HO yet, mainly because I cant buy the minimum order from them and I dont want to buy it second hand from someone that more then likely took the best ones for there own work and sell off the other ones. I would prefer to get it from the dealer if possible.

I was using the better stuff that tandy had and I picked out what I could. The leather wasnt too bad. Then I got a WC side tooling 8-10oz. I went for it and ordered the top teir stuff and must say it is the nicest stuff I have personally every played with. It was just great how even the dye went on compared to the other stuff I had been using. The tooling was outstanding as well.

I also tried some tooling leather from seigel, stuff that was on web special and it was ok. Rather different but more on the tandy level. I also tried some from waterhouse, not sure where it came from or what not but it was inbetween tandy and WC stuff but more on the tandy side.

Just try them all out I guess. I usually try for what I think will be the best deal. If I gotta pay a $1/ft more from someplace but not have to worry about cutting around brands and marks then that is a good deal to me.

[bustedlifter]

. Buy the way, he will only buy HO from Stevenson-Paxton in California because they provide him the best deal at $99 side (6-7 oz). $89 if you buy a minimum of 4+ hides.

I spoke to a rep. of Stevenson-Paxton yesterday on the phone. We talked for about 15 - 20 minutes. He was very helpful and listened to my concerns. I will be doing business with them in the future.