gun molds for holster makers

[troop]

i have been making several holsters in the past few months (about 15). the problem is that being custom made i have to use the customers gun to mold in the holsters. if i am going to branch out this won't be as possible. other than the blue and red training guns i have found online, does anyone know where to get gun molds for this purpose?

thanks, tony

[Jordan]

One option would be to purchase a weapon direct from the mfg. that has been rendered inoperable, usually a defective mfg process in some way causes an unsalable item and rather than scrap them they sell them as non-firing replicas. I have seen some occasionally for 75 to 100 dollars. Other than that the customers gun, rings blue or duncan aluminum dummies would be needed. Also a benevolent gun shop owner may let you spend some quality time with their inventory to make some patterns and test fits.

[troop]

One option would be to purchase a weapon direct from the mfg. that has been rendered inoperable, usually a defective mfg process in some way causes an unsalable item and rather than scrap them they sell them as non-firing replicas. I have seen some occasionally for 75 to 100 dollars. Other than that the customers gun, rings blue or duncan aluminum dummies would be needed. Also a benevolent gun shop owner may let you spend some quality time with their inventory to make some patterns and test fits.

thanks, i am thinking the blue guns are the least expensive way to go.

[K-Man]

Blue guns generally have the better detail and are truer to size of the original gun. The red ASP guns are out of spec more times than not. The aluminum guns from Duncan will do okay, but oftentimes require some additional attention to clean them up.

There are some dummy guns for sale in the "for sale" section here on the forum. There may be some in there that you can snag for a good price.

[troop]

Blue guns generally have the better detail and are truer to size of the original gun. The red ASP guns are out of spec more times than not. The aluminum guns from Duncan will do okay, but oftentimes require some additional attention to clean them up.

There are some dummy guns for sale in the "for sale" section here on the forum. There may be some in there that you can snag for a good price.

very nice....thanks K-man! will check em out.

[ABC3]

Try Roper's Supply in MS. $35.95 is the best price I've found.

[Randyc]

Hey Guys,

On March 17th I ordered a Blue Gun from a police equiptment supplier. I paid around $36.00 for the mold. I was told it would be shipped within a week and a half. My credit card was charged for the order. On Monday I called the supplier and was told they were scheduled to receive the shipment from Rings on May 11th. I found out that most suppliers don't actually stock all of the Blue Gun model. Around 3 weeks ago I ordered a different model Blue Gun directly from Rings Mfg. I was told I would have the mold in 2 weeks. Still no molds. Now I can't deliver on the holsters I've promised my customers and I'm falling behind on my projected build times. I can't do much about Rings manufactoring times, but I sure would like to find a reseller who would be up front about delivery times.

Randy

[ABC3]

Hey Randy,

What are you looking for. I know how it is when your back is to the door. I don't have any for sale but I'll loan you what you need if I have it.

Let me know.

[Lobo]

This subject seems to come up pretty frequently.

Rings, ASP, Duncan's, they all share certain qualities: none is perfect, no one seems to be able to deliver within a reasonable time, they seem to be rather expensive (considering what they are, how they are made).

For the smaller-volume holster makers what seems to be needed is a rental service, or perhaps a cooperative formed to acquire and share dummy guns to members as needed. Interesting concept there.

Personally, I would be happy to loan out a forming piece, except that while it is loaned out I don't have it on hand to use, so this could actually cost me business. I suppose I'll just continue ordering additional dummies as I need them. After all, the first holster sold pays for the dummy, so the cost isn't all that big a deal.

Actually, for some older out-of-production handguns (for which no one makes dummies, and for which many holster-makers no longer make holsters) I have purchased used handguns in the $250 to $400 price range to use for forming holsters. I have done this several times, and in each case the cost of the handgun was recovered in holster sales within a few months. So, I have added to my gun collection while writing off the cost as a business expense.

[Shorts]

Hey Guys,

On March 17th I ordered a Blue Gun from a police equiptment supplier. I paid around $36.00 for the mold. I was told it would be shipped within a week and a half. My credit card was charged for the order. On Monday I called the supplier and was told they were scheduled to receive the shipment from Rings on May 11th. I found out that most suppliers don't actually stock all of the Blue Gun model. Around 3 weeks ago I ordered a different model Blue Gun directly from Rings Mfg. I was told I would have the mold in 2 weeks. Still no molds. Now I can't deliver on the holsters I've promised my customers and I'm falling behind on my projected build times. I can't do much about Rings manufactoring times, but I sure would like to find a reseller who would be up front about delivery times.

Randy

Yeah, everything I've ever ordered came directly from Rings. I've only had one item back ordered. To my surprise is was a Beretta 92F. I did not receive any word about a back order. I learned of it after I emailed an inquiry a month after the order was placed. I thought that was rather poor way of doing business. Fortunately I wasn't on a deadline, but had I been, things would not have been pleasant.

Randy I hope your items come through.

[ABC3]

You know, for $750 (the amount to become a Dist) you could get about 23 guns. If you could rent them out for lets say $10 for a week it would stop alot of running around. Just a thought....

[Lobo]

You know, for $750 (the amount to become a Dist) you could get about 23 guns. If you could rent them out for lets say $10 for a week it would stop alot of running around. Just a thought....

My line of thought exactly, Tom. Here is what I would suggest:

Someone needs a forming piece, they send you $50 (enough to cover replacement, if necessary, plus postage to get it there). When finished with it, he returns it to you (postage at his expense), then you refund $40.

Your risk is covered. You make a few bucks (about $5 after postage expense). The forming piece pays for itself in about 7 or 8 rentals. The rental user gets to fill his order(s) for about $15 net cost (including return postage) rather than $45 to $50 to buy a dummy gun.

This could work out quite nicely for the hobbyist or part-time maker on a tight budget. Also, not a bad idea for the dummy guns to make low-demand holsters.

Of course, taking orders, receiving deposits, packing, shipping, receiving returns, issuing refunds, this all seems like a fair amount of effort for relatively little return on investment.

I remember looking at Georg Lawrence catalogs many years ago, with photos of their "gun room" filled with hundreds of real handguns they used every day as forming pieces. Today, that kind of investment would be astronomical to have any hope of filling most orders.

[K-Man]

Rings, ASP, Duncan's, they all share certain qualities: none is perfect, no one seems to be able to deliver within a reasonable time, they seem to be rather expensive (considering what they are, how they are made).

Have you done any research with respect to the cost to make dummy guns, whether they're cast from aluminum or some other material? It's not as cheap as one may think....

Edited April 30, 2009 by K-Man

[Lobo]

Have you done any research with respect to the cost to make dummy guns, whether they're cast from aluminum or some other material? It's not as cheap as one may think....

Yes, I have. I understand that each manufacturer has a substantial investment, and that there needs to be a reasonable return on that investment to continue doing business. I was not intimating that there was any over-pricing going on, only commenting on the casual observer's though process when looking at the end result, and the price tag for it.

Every item having a limited market will have a price reflecting the cost of production, promotion, and delivery. I don't have a problem with that, and I am willing to pay for the service provided by those who give me what I need when I need it.

That said, every week I respond to customer inquiries explaining that it might take several weeks to obtain the forming piece for what they want, that I will gladly buy it if they will place the order; and every week I have customers who make the decision one way or the other. Also, every week I respond to customer inquiries for holsters to fit handguns that I doubt I will ever receive another order for, so I apologize and decline the order.

I'm sure you have had similar experiences. I have on hand several dozen forming pieces (dummy guns or actual handguns). Some I use every week, others I use only a few times per year. When the opportunities seem to be worth the investment, I acquire more. When what the customer wants is on the fringe, I decline the order.

[Randyc]

Hey Randy,

What are you looking for. I know how it is when your back is to the door. I don't have any for sale but I'll loan you what you need if I have it.

Let me know.

Thanks Tom, so far my customers have been very understanding and willing to wait for me to build their holsters.

I need to be a little more conservative on my estimated build times when I have to order a mold gun I don't already have.

Randy

[claybuster101]

With respect to gun molds. Has anyone tried to "cast" a particular firearm using a mold from modelers clay? There are a couple of options here. I have not tried it yet, but might give it a shot.

What if you had 2 slabs of modelers clay. One for the left half and one for the right half of the firearm. For obvious reasons the clay would have to be wider, longer and deeper than 1/2 the thickness you are trying to achieve.

Take a sheet of kitchen plastic wrap (Saran ?) and lay it on top of the clay. Depress the firearm down to at least 1/2 halfway. If it goes a touch deeper both halves could be sanded and epoxied together for a final dimension. Do the same to the other side of the firearm. Now you have molds for both halfs. Remove the firearms and the plastic wrap. It should leave a very exact duplicate of the original firearm. Apply a release agent to ease the removal of the molded part. I doubt highly that the mold could be used more than once, but it would be worth the effort to try.

Using a resin mix (polyester) is the less expensive, I would add shreds of fine fiberglass to reinforce the piece being molded. Always do a small test batch first to check set up times as ambient temperature, humidity etc have an effect on the resin. Once you have determined that the resin will set up properly pour the resin into the molds. Once it is set and cured (overnight will probably do it) remove the firearm halves. You can check the width dimension against the original firearm. A light sanding may be required to get a flat mating surface for the two halves (maybe a bit of Dremel work as well). Epoxy the two halves and there is your replica for doing holster molding. As a possible bonus, a coloring agent could be added to the resin mix to help distinguish say a Springfield XD from an XDm so you don't grab the wrong mold off the rack.

This may have been posted in days gone by here on LW.N but I thought I would throw it out anyway.

Dennis

Michigan

[Lobo]

With respect to gun molds. Has anyone tried to "cast" a particular firearm using a mold from modelers clay? There are a couple of options here. I have not tried it yet, but might give it a shot.

What if you had 2 slabs of modelers clay. One for the left half and one for the right half of the firearm. For obvious reasons the clay would have to be wider, longer and deeper than 1/2 the thickness you are trying to achieve.

Take a sheet of kitchen plastic wrap (Saran ?) and lay it on top of the clay. Depress the firearm down to at least 1/2 halfway. If it goes a touch deeper both halves could be sanded and epoxied together for a final dimension. Do the same to the other side of the firearm. Now you have molds for both halfs. Remove the firearms and the plastic wrap. It should leave a very exact duplicate of the original firearm. Apply a release agent to ease the removal of the molded part. I doubt highly that the mold could be used more than once, but it would be worth the effort to try.

Using a resin mix (polyester) is the less expensive, I would add shreds of fine fiberglass to reinforce the piece being molded. Always do a small test batch first to check set up times as ambient temperature, humidity etc have an effect on the resin. Once you have determined that the resin will set up properly pour the resin into the molds. Once it is set and cured (overnight will probably do it) remove the firearm halves. You can check the width dimension against the original firearm. A light sanding may be required to get a flat mating surface for the two halves (maybe a bit of Dremel work as well). Epoxy the two halves and there is your replica for doing holster molding. As a possible bonus, a coloring agent could be added to the resin mix to help distinguish say a Springfield XD from an XDm so you don't grab the wrong mold off the rack.

This may have been posted in days gone by here on LW.N but I thought I would throw it out anyway.

Dennis

Michigan

Dennis: You are willing to do a whole lot of work, just to save about $40 or $50. I admire your willingness! Personally, I will keep on buying the dummy guns. Best regards!

[claybuster101]

Dennis: You are willing to do a whole lot of work, just to save about $40 or $50. I admire your willingness! Personally, I will keep on buying the dummy guns. Best regards!

I know, I know "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". My wife tells me that on a daily basis. It sure seems like all the people trying to get the replica guns have a hard time...(long waits, backorders etc) Plus many of the firearms are not available to mold a holster from (XDm for example). I might give it a shot and let ya'all know how it turns out. Since no gelcoat is involved it should be a rather straight forward process....time and money!

[ABC3]

I think Jim (The Beltman) told me he molded several of the Blue Guns. You might want to give him a call.

[lilrays]

Hello:

I don't know if this was suggested but airsoft pistols may be helpful since many are the exact size and shape of the handgun you're making. I had bought a few to aid me when I couldn't get hold of the customers actual pistol.

When I would buy one, I made sure to check the photo of the actual firearm to ensure that what I'm buying is the right one then I would try to buy it in person to get a close up look.

Hope this helps . . .

lilrays

[DCKNIVES]

Well I can't be sure of the others, but Ring's isn't really a very big company and like most others are feeling the pinch of the economy.I know because I work just around the corner from them and applied there for a job two months ago after being laid off ( I have since been called back to my old job ).Anyways they are not hiring anytime soon and are running only first shift.So I would not expect delivery times to change much.Dave

[claybuster101]

Heys DC...While you were applying for employment, did Ring's give you a tour of the shop? Are they injection molding each replica? If not, what is the process they are using? With a 3 axis router or Pantograph duplicater they could conceivably mill a duplicate mold from an original. They could machine it using Kirtsite and get hundreds of pieces out of a die set. Did you see any containers of "plastic" pellets laying around?

Dennis

Michigan

[DCKNIVES]

No, its all injection molding.Small shop.Dave

[rickybobby]

Someone needs a forming piece, they send you $50 (enough to cover replacement, if necessary, plus postage to get it there). When finished with it, he returns it to you (postage at his expense), then you refund $40.

Your risk is covered. You make a few bucks (about $5 after postage expense). The forming piece pays for itself in about 7 or 8 rentals. The rental user gets to fill his order(s) for about $15 net cost (including return postage) rather than $45 to $50 to buy a dummy gun.

I Have been thinking about this rental thread (because I need a blue gun I don't have right now!) and want some input from some of you on what would be a fair "RENTAL" price for 7 days? Ray (Lobo) had a great idea but like he said "Not much return for the effort" But maybe there could be? I know I need one sometimes and would use something like this. I am "small time" so I can't afford all the dummy's I want in one order so I pay a greater price buying one at a time.

1. Do enough people have PayPal to use that for payment and refund ?

2. Is there enough need for this service (Rental Blue Guns?)

3. How many hobby holster (or Pro's) makers would use this service?

4. If the Rental Co. paid postage both ways (supplied pre paid envelope) do you think you would have a greater chance of getting your Blue Gun back on time?

5. What would a fair "late fee" per day be?

6. I am open to suggestions, this maybe something I take on for a second business

I am looking for positive and negative information. Some of you may have a better idea for all or part.

Thanks, Rick Jorgenson

[ABC3]

Rick,

What Blue Gun are you looking for. If I have it - I'll loan it out for a week @ no charge. This maybe another ave to take. You break it in a press & you replace it. Otherwise use it & return it. If it is not returned it's "Black Ball" time. Anyway, just an idea.