How to keep big tools from bouncing on thin leather

[azrider]

I have done my last three or four projects out of 2-4oz leather. One of the problems I have had is that large stamps, like letter stamps or the barbwire borders always seem to bounce. Last week I ordered a maker's mark, and when I tried it on the thin leather it bounced quite a bit. I made about 40 attempts to get a clear impression, and was getting kind of upset about it. I use the standard Tandy Poly mallet, and am too cheap to buy a dead blow hammer with out trying everything else first. I did decide to dig in the scrap bin, and found a few pieces of thicker leather. Some 10-11oz saddle skirting took the impression perfectly once it was cased. There was not bounce at all, and I could actually strike the tool a few times if needed. Since it worked on the thicker leather, I tried putting the thin leather on top of the thicker leather, and it worked like a charm. I think it just needed a certain thickness of leather between it and the marble to keep from bouncing.

Can anyone see any reason why this might be a bad idea?

[TwinOaks]

Umm....having a leather pad under the thin leather might allow it to stretch more during tooling?

[azrider]

I didn't think about the stretching. I tried a few stamps, and it seems like the streching gives them an almost embossed from the back look, in addition to giving a more equal depth for the cuts. Would this weaken the leather signifigantly?

[Luke Hatley]

how thick is your Marble slab and what type of surface is your marble on.

[azrider]

Its the standard inch and a half slab from Tandy. (It looks like granite, not marble now that I look at it.) I keep it on top of my rubber cutting mat, on a formica desk.

[TwinOaks]

Formica desk may be the culprit. See if you can move to a more stable foundation...even the floor will work for testing purposes....and try a few.

[DG Leather]

I use 2-4 oz leather lately and have had no issue with it bouncing.....

Here is what I do.....in my living room on a carpet floor.....

I built a work table.....2x4 frame with 3/4 inch plywood...the legs are 4 x 4 treated posts.

on top (directly over) the 4 x4 post leg I put my 12/5x17x 1" black polished granite....I put packing tape on the back of the leather to prevent stretching..... and then I pound my DEAD cow.......

When i use stamping tools I hold it like a pencil and if it is letter stamp I hold it where the stamp clicks on to the handle and i hold it literally as tight as I can pressing downward.....I got a 20 oz rawhide hammer..... and I give it 1 single hard shot and every time i do i cringe that i am about to demolish what is left of my busted knuckles from younger years......Alls I can say is leather work as taught me that all the faces i hit was not worth it cuz now 1 hour of leather work and my hands sieze up (more info than you needed....but I am sure you will live!) hahaha

anyways I am new to leather workin but from reading these threads repeatidly daily...probably obsessively.....I learn alot...

PS

Obsessed is a word use by "lazy" people to descibe the "dedicated"

[azrider]

Think I may be calling it a night, so will haul the slab and stuff down stairs tomorrow and see how it comes out.

[DreadPirateRedbeard]

I like that ghost look on the upper piece. I have a new little trick for effect. I can incorporate the "ghosting" with regular tooling. Now to create a piece to try that look on!

[AndyL1]

I think of all the leather you may waste having ghosted stamps would be a lot more expensive than spending 8 bucks on a deadblow hammer from Harbor Freight. I always use the right tool for the job. Just my 2 cents.

[kevinhopkins]

Hi... One thing that you might want to keep in mind, is that there's a big difference between stamping on 2 oz leather, and stamping on 4oz leather. As long as your marble slab (granite) is on a good solid surface, you should be able to stamp just about anything onto 4 oz leather. But it's a different story when you go to 2 oz.... Then, you need all right stuff, like folks have mentioned. The dead blow mallet, making sure the granite is giving you all it can, and don't forget, the right moisture content is really important when trying to get good results with light weight veg leather like that. It can be challenging not to cut the leather, but with practice, you'll get it!

Kevin Hopkins

[KatieG]

I regularly use 2-4 leather (since spring last year, actually, used 2-3 until this past 2 months, and only used thicker leather once recently), with a tandy slab with poundo board glued to the underside. I've got a 1lb mallet, if it matters. As for work surface, I've used carpet, big wooden desk, little wimpy desk (not wood not metal.. something woodish that stays still long enough lol), massive wooden table with MORE poundo on it, my lap....All on carpet floors. (if that's all important. if not... *shrugs*)

For tooling, I press down a bit more and walk in small sections... when it comes to pear shading I substitue a modeling tool.. or forego the mallet entirely and press-n-rub. It still works very well. ^__^. (And is faster than tool...tool...tool....)

For stamping, I hold it down and hit it. I don't know how hard you hit, but my OCD self goes for 4-7 whacks depending on how hard I'm hitting. I tend to tool like a caffeinated butterfly - light and quick. If I'm showing someone else.. well then it's 2 firm hits. I tend to get good depth and color without going through the leather. Don't hold it loose, nor too firm. Too firm I run the risk of marking the leather and then moving it slightly without realizing it, or it becomes uneven. (Like tilting to one side or the other.) Too loose, I run the risk of it bouncing. Just practice until you find a good hold. It's different on thinner leather than on thicker. Hold it about as firmly as you would a pen or pencil when writing normally, not in caps or cursive....if that makes sense.

If it's the spreading that's the problem... tape. Packing tape makes it sticky when you peel it off, go with scotch tape. If you don't mind trying to make it un-sticky, packing tape will have a better hold.

For water content... when it looks dry and feels cool is PERFECT!!! Oh and the edges dry faster in a way guaranteed to drive you batty. I've got an ongoing practice piece at the moment where I'm working on the edges.. the middle is soaked but the edges dry out insanely quick. So work from the outside in if possible.

If this helped, hurrah.. if not then I am sorry!!!

best of luck, thin leather is so much fun to work with <3

[MedusaOblongata]

..... and I give it 1 single hard shot and every time i do i cringe that i am about to demolish what is left of my busted knuckles from younger years......

If you really don't want to hit your fingers with the hammer, hold the stamp with a pair of pliers or, even better, vice grips. Then if the hammer misses, you still won't hit your fingers. Works with nails, should work as well with a stamp.

[UKRay]

If you really don't want to hit your fingers with the hammer, hold the stamp with a pair of pliers or, even better, vice grips. Then if the hammer misses, you still won't hit your fingers. Works with nails, should work as well with a stamp.

An amusing idea. I must try it some time...

[hidepounder]

I have done my last three or four projects out of 2-4oz leather. One of the problems I have had is that large stamps, like letter stamps or the barbwire borders always seem to bounce. Last week I ordered a maker's mark, and when I tried it on the thin leather it bounced quite a bit. I made about 40 attempts to get a clear impression, and was getting kind of upset about it. I use the standard Tandy Poly mallet, and am too cheap to buy a dead blow hammer with out trying everything else first. I did decide to dig in the scrap bin, and found a few pieces of thicker leather. Some 10-11oz saddle skirting took the impression perfectly once it was cased. There was not bounce at all, and I could actually strike the tool a few times if needed. Since it worked on the thicker leather, I tried putting the thin leather on top of the thicker leather, and it worked like a charm. I think it just needed a certain thickness of leather between it and the marble to keep from bouncing.

Can anyone see any reason why this might be a bad idea?

Its the standard inch and a half slab from Tandy. (It looks like granite, not marble now that I look at it.) I keep it on top of my rubber cutting mat, on a formica desk.

Personally, I think the problem you're experiencing is a combination of not having a heavy enough piece of marble or a stable enough table to set it on. Most professional toolers have scrounged up a piece of marble or granite that is approximately 18" x 24" and is 3" to 4" thick. Mounted in bench and set in sand or some other shock absorbing bedding, all bounce is eliminated at the surface of the slab. I think Peter Main uses a piece of 1/2" steel plate (don't quote me on that). I used one successfully for a long time, but I prefer the granite slab.

If these type of surfaces are not practicle for you, you may just have to learn to deal with the bounce. I'm in that situation right now. I installed a chemical lab counter top that I am tooling on (it was given to me so I thought I'd try it) and it has a little bounce to it. Until I re-build the bench (soon I hope) I have decided to just deal with it. I have found when using my makers stamp, that I can tip it ever so slightly for the initial blow and then tip it in the opposite direction to even the impression out, on the second pass. While not the most desireable, it's a method that works well and I won't worry about it until I re-build the bench.

There is nothing wrong with placing a piece of leather under the one you're workiing on if you're satisfied with the results. If the impression is clean and crisp and if the leather does not stretch too much, then I'd say you've found an acceptable way to deal with the bounce! However I do recomend ditching the light weight mallet for a heavier maul. I've never used a dead blow hammer, but I think it should work just fine. Most pro's have a 3 or 4 mauls in different weights....one being heavy for use with their makers stamp, end punches, etc.

Happy tooling!

Bob

Edited May 19, 2009 by hidepounder

[azrider]

Thanks for the info every one. The desk I am using is causing part of the bounce for sure. I will be building a new bench in all the spare time I have...

I have been using this table and set up for about two years now for tooling. The only issues I have are when I am dealing with the thin leather and the bigger stamps. 1/2 inch no problem, 3/4 inch problem. I thought I had it down, and skipped the makers mark on a piece I am working on now. I covered it, but it doesn't look great. I ended up stamping it on a pocket inside, and cut three pieces before I could get the impression I wanted. (BTW, this piece is for me at work so I am not as worried about perfection.) I am going to see about finding a better mallet or two. The two I have now were part of tandy kits, and have worked well, but I think heavier ones would work better some times. Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas!

[Vikefan]

AndyL1,

How heavy a deadblow hammer do you use? I have heard this twice now...

I am looking on Harbor Freights website now.

Thanks,

Vikefan